Hey Simon.........Why not rise to the challenge? Put together some words that are instructive, informative, positive, encouraging, tolerant, pleasent and show a general friendliness to your fellow Forumites and indeed all of humanity.

Planemike

SOE (re chowder)
 

well said skipness and very well put:D:D
how many times has this troll and his alter ego kevlarcarl been red carded?
he add's sod all to any thread,and gets off by winding the rest of us up.
small minded sad little boy go play some where else.

Why is it unreasonable of me to have an expectation of being able to go to work and use the tools of my trade without having an unknown number of unknown people monitoring me, for no other purpose than having their curiosity satisfied?

At some stage in your PPL you will get a Flight Radio Telephony Operator's Licence (is it still called that since the days when I got mine?). Then you won't be doing anything illegal.:ok:

Exactly one outsider why should you indeed be monitored by these people, would these characaters relish you snooping on them as they go about their daily work, why do they feel the need to do it and why do they think they have some god given right to break the law by doing it?

As for being sad PH ,well this weekend all being well i will be gliding at long mynd, you i presume will huddled on some airport terrace with your flask of tea collecting reg numbers and snooping in on other people having all the fun, now how sad is that?:ok:

Blimey, will my AirNav radar box be considered a tool of perversion as well?

SC are you really 45? :eek:

Anyway - I for one actually enjoy your posts. The entertainment value is excellent. Keep going, why on earth anyone would rise to your evident brand of immature trolling is beyond me.

Sorry, nearly forgot... :ok:

simonchowder does sound rather like a failed spotter..

Did he scald someone with his thermos of coffee on a viewing balcony somewhere?

Maybe he poked someone's eye out with his airband radio antenna.

Or quite likely he ticked all the reg entries in his World Airline Fleet handbook without actually spotting the aircraft concerned!

Legal or not - listening to airband is a harmless pursuit and (with a copy of CAP413 handy) helps PPL students gain an excellent understanding of the language and proceedures before they take their RT exam. It certainly made me feel alot more confident about talking to ATC when I was training.

TrafficPilot

Ahh Simon, same old, same old.
"Spotters bah, I'm better than them, blah blah." You come across as someone with a spiteful little grudge.

What on Earth do you do in the aviation industry Simon? You're far from professional so you're never a CPL. Do you perhaps wash the windows? Is that "on the inside" enough?

Anyway good to know your mummy is letting you out this weekend. A glider eh? Mmm that's impressive. Odd that you've not once posted on the subject of gliding.

Are you in fact Walter Mitty as well as kevlarcarl? We should be told...
*that's enough of that ED*

Go on, tell us why you hate us so. So much effort to cause so much annoyance.

Did you mistake a 707 for a DC8 and never live it down?
Did you think port was next to sherry?

We should be told.

Here's some advice mate. If you don't like something, stay away from it. If you poke it with a stick often enough, you'll get your hand bitten off. Stay out of Spectators Corner if you don't like spotters. It's that simple, stop being a moron and leave people alone.

I don't spot, I used to fly, I don't play golf but I do, and enjoy, ballroom dancing, which a lot of people probably don't like. However, I like it, it is one of my hobbies, and I think it is very ignorant of people to run down what other people enjoy.
I don't see what spotting has to attract people to it, but at least the spotters have a hobby, which makes them much more interesting than people who don't have one for a start. What other people do in there spare time is surely sacrosanct, and should not be criticized simply because it's not what you would do!!. Each to his own. [I also adore pretty women, and that's harmless too]

decent radio to listen to atc?
 

seems the original Question here got Hijacked one thing to remember
when Buying a radio .

1 Does it cover what i want to listen to ,if you only need VHF
then get one for that . many Radios with loads on are often
poor on Rejection of unwanted noise.

2 Battery Life (get a spare set of NICADS and a SOLAR Charger

3 get a decent pair of phones for it so only you can hear it

I First listened to Aircraft some 50 years ago at School when a Science
Master introduced the class to SHANNON AIR RADIO And what it all
meant so fidling with a short wave Radio at home found SHANWICK.
Some of early VHF FM Radios Suffered with Aircraft Breakthough so
at times you could hear 127.7 the then MID route over where we
lived . bought my first Airband Set near EGLL and my First scanner
from TANDY when like very many those days we were buying parts
for our CB Radios .Never Ever been warned by Police for using a radio
and very often even today thay will come and stand by you and
others with Radios in full view all very interested .
What i want to know is are all that that keep on about use of
and Law 100percent Without such Equipment themselves and
RADAR BOXES I Wonder ?

TONY
Farnborough

Shannon Radio
 

My history goes back as a junior with KLM Air Traffic at Croydon where their Dakotas shared the apron with Junkers 52's of SABENA and Air France. I recall that at home late at night I too would listen in to the transatlantic Air traffic radio chatter in the 40's and 50's on my ordinary Derwent valve radio - pulling in such far away stations as Idlewild Gander Rio Rome etc. - with crystal clear reception of ground and a/c xmissions.

Later when working for SAS airlines I was offered their R1132 VHF receiver (ex RAF) (delivered in its own huge fitted wooden crate with seperate power pack and metal stand). This enabled me to listen in to a/c lining up at Heathrow - following their flights onto Shannon and over the Atlantic - Switching between the two radios. Great Days - The golden days of Flying !

.

There was a time when, if you wanted to use an airband receiver on the Spectators' Terrace at Glasgow (it had one once!), you needed to have it tested by ATC and be issued with a certificate to say that it did not interfere with operations at the airport. Good excuse for a visit to the Tower.

Queens Building ATC feed?
 

I seem to remember in the old Queens Building spectators area at Heathrow, they had a PA feed giving aircraft movements and details, was it Tower or Ground relay, or maybe just an announcer? Can't quite recall.... many years ago.

It was a commentator, usually Stan Little or Flo Kingdon plus A N Other I believe. There was no relay of R/T.

Ah! Thanx HD...

Legal Listening
 

Whether or not listening to air traffic radio is legal I would place in the same file as listening to Police radio - whereby for every Yes - there
will also be a 'No' !

Ham Radio (Amateur Radio) licence holders will often quote the 1948
Wireless Telegraphy Act and state that the practice 'Is Illegal' !
However if seeking an answer from your local police station (as I once did)
will leave you further confused as they dont seem to know for sure either.

I have heard it summed up that 'Provided one does not act upon or use
any information gained by listening in' then it is not illegal.

So its no just pilots/ ATC you lot snoop on, its police transmissions as well, why the hell would you want to sit there listning to police radio traffic ? :confused:

To hear when they are coming to arrest you for listening to ATC.:ok:

Not this one!

It has not been possible to monitor Police transmissions for many years. Better you get up to date than pointless pontificating.

not me chowder, you presume wrong, im not a spotter but have an interest in aircraft and family and friends who work in the industry,so this weekend i will be out playing golf with my mates and no doubt going for several pints with more mates,whilest you will be sat in a glider on your own now thats sad!.
why dont you go and post on the gliders thread who knows you might even make some friends on there.

Oi, CHOWDER
Why the Hell would you want to be up past your bedtime in Spectators Balcony AGAIN, upsetting people when you've got school in the morning?

As I pointed out some way back, Police band is not available on a scanner as it has been secure for a few years now. Do keep up young man!

Anyway !!! Poor old AndopiP only asked what was a decent Airband radio to listen to...at this rate we will have had another General Election before we know !.....a lot of hot air but i suppose it keeps those boring :mad: gliders up in the air. :E

i got a few suggestions on the first page, they're good enough for me to look into. the rest has been a good old argument between the seniors, sensibles, and downright stupids :ok:

Back on Track
 

I got a WIN-108 for my Christmas from my Dad one year and thought it was the best present ever. It's VHF reception was great. Then I moved up to the Yupiteru VT-225 which was a whole new beast, amazing reception and 100 stored freqs. Alas it got nicked to I moved up to....

the Yupiteru MVT-7100 which doesn't have great reception at all as it tries to do too much. I then stepped back down for the MVT-3330 which promised amazing things but is prone to all sorts of interference. I also managed to snap the connection from the antenna to the circuit board with both new scanners as they don't like being in pockets and the connection isn't the best design.

Is it possible to buy a new scanner that models roughly what the VT-225 delivered SEVENTEEN years ago? Excellent VHF / UHF airband reception with a good search and store options?

Cheers

BTW I hope I'm a sensible. I might not be though (!)

There's always the Yaesu VR5000, but it ain't cheap and it ain't portable (very).

Skipness One Echo said:

"the Yupiteru MVT-7100 which doesn't have great reception at all as it tries to do too much."

Don't quite understand what you mean can you elaborate?

I've used the 7100 for a few years now and it has excellent performance for an "early" handheld receiver. Sensitivity and selectivity is among the best I've seen. I use a home-made 1/4 wave antenna for airband mounted on the roof and a 20m long wire strung out down the garden for listening to HF.

Advice for anyone considering buying a handheld airband radio..

1) Buy a digital receiver with digital display (analog "elastic band" displays are pretty useless and only really work well if you're within a couple of miles of an airport).

2) Make sure it has a detachable antenna (preferably with a BNC connector).

3) Most airband receivers are susceptible to "noise" generated by televisions, computers, dodgy central heating systems etc so try and site the radio in the clear and if possible use an external antenna for best performance.

4) Make sure the radio has adjustable frequency "steps" (ie, 1,5,6.25,10 khz etc)

Hope this helps

And remember - Don't listen to any transmissions for which you don't possess a licence:ok: otherwise bad things could happen (and if you want to know which bad things...watch the movie SCANNERS:bored:)

<<Ham Radio (Amateur Radio) licence holders will often quote the 1948
Wireless Telegraphy Act and state that the practice 'Is Illegal' !
However if seeking an answer from your local police station (as I once did)
will leave you further confused as they dont seem to know for sure either.

I have heard it summed up that 'Provided one does not act upon or use
any information gained by listening in' then it is not illegal.>>

Pasir. If you are uncertain why don't you check the official line, which appears in a "sticky" in the ATC forum? Here's what it says:

Anyone who intends to listen to radio transmissions should be aware of the following:

A licence is not required for a radio receiver as long as it is not capable of transmission as well (The Wireless Telegraphy Apparatus (Receivers) (Exemption) Regulations 1989 (SI 1989 No 123). The exception to this is that it is an offence to listen to unlicensed broadcasters (pirates) without a licence. Licences are not issued for this purpose.

Although it is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanning or other receiver in the UK, it must only be used to listen to transmissions meant for GENERAL RECEPTION. The services that you can listen to include Amateur and Citizens' Band transmissions, licensed broadcast radio, and weather and navigation broadcasts.

It is an offence to listen to any other radio services unless you are authorised by a designated person to do so.

And OFCOM also gave PPRuNe the following direct interpretation of the law (similar to the above).


Quote:
In short you can use a scanner to listen to anything broadcast for general reception, radio amateurs, CB, weather and navigation broadcasts. Unless you are a police officer or work in the emergency services you are not allowed to listen to their communications.

You can only listen to other services if you have the permission of the sender. The air show is a good example where the control tower frequencies are publicised and that would be considered permission. Unquote

In practical terms, you are unlikely to be prosecuted for simply listening in, if discrete and sensible. However, if you pass on information from what you hear, through Bulletin Boards, the press, or by setting up a live feed, then it's entirely feasible to feel Ofcom's hand on your collar and an appointment before the beak.

___________________________________

That page has been somewhat superceded - check the OFCOM site for the latest info, which includes the following:

Question: Am I breaking the law by owning a scanner?
Answer: No, but you should not use one to listen to frequencies other than general reception transmissions.

Question: Can I get a licence to use a scanner?
Answer: No, there is no scanner licence. You do not need one for a scanner.

Question: Could I get authority to listen to emergency service transmissions, for example? I am interested and might be able to help.
Answer: No, authority is reserved for people acting under statutory authority. If you wish to listen in to messages, you should obtain the permission of the person sending them.

Question: Isn't it all right to listen as long as I don't pass on what I hear?
Answer: No, using radio equipment to listen in is an offence, regardless of whether the information is passed on.

Question: Isn't this all a bit heavy?
Answer: No. No-one likes their private or business conversations to be listened to. Parliament has passed these laws to protect the privacy of radio users.

I believe that settles ALL arguments. The last two answers are particularly appropriate.

Problem is your dealing with spotters here who seem to think they have god given rights not only to illegally monitor private broadcasts but to block emergency vehicle access points at airports, sneak into secure areas where they can ,and generally make a complete nuisance of themselves where ever they congregate

You don't half write a load of tripe simonchunder. When was the last YOU saw spotters making a nuisance of themselves? I actually think you need help mate. Step away from the keyboard firstly and stop posting on spotters fora. That will help enormously.

If it is illegal to listen to ATC broadcasts, isn't it illegal monitor to ADS-B, ACARS-D and virtual radars on-line? Aren't they private too?

I think simon speaks a great deal of sense. I am a lifelong spotter and I could talk all night about the lunatic behaviour I have seen, both at Heathrow where I worked for many years and many smaller places. It beggars belief what some of these clowns will do for a reggie!! And, YES, at Farnborough I have often seen spotters blocking emergency access gates. If you gave many of them two brains they'd have a pair!!

I am pretty sure that if a serious decision was required on SBS and the various other "radar" boxes they would be deemed illegal. However, as we all know, it's cheaper for the authorities to turn a blind eye!

Heathrow Director and Simon are right. I too have seen crash gates being obstructed, in one case by a member of the armed forces based at that particular airfield.

I must be in with the wrong crowd as I've seen very little bad behaviour by spotters in general. The odd one or two that go a bit OTT but in general pretty good as any visitor to the AVP at Manchester will testify. I have to say that I can't think of any incident where spotters have caused any danger to aircraft or aircrew. Most are pretty savvy about what is safe and what isn't. Many, like myself, are in the industry anyway so are well aware of what constitutes suitable behaviour.

Now that is funny!

I don’t normally get involved in (heated?) debates but I would like to add my tuppence worth, ok £’s worth! I don’t regard myself as a spotter in the sense that I would visit airports to record and photograph a multitude of aircraft. I have taken photos of vintage aircraft at one airshow (Duxford) and if a Super Constellation where to visit one of the South East airports yes I’d like to get a few shots. I’m interested in aviation and the complex nature of air routes, and yes in the radio exchanges between pilots and ATC. I don’t ‘hang around’ airports or airfields, don’t make a nuisance of myself and have enjoyed videos posted on some sites of rare aircraft arriving and departing UK airports filmed by many enthusiasts. I’m middle aged, a family man, believe myself to be responsible, don’t consider myself a numptie, moron, idiot, or that I interfere in the work of others by listening to Airband radio for a particular aircraft transmission and following it on a tracking site, especially when a member of my family is on that flight.

As with anything in life there’ll be those who are very ‘low key’ and cause no interference or insult to anyone else by passively following this hobby and at the opposite end of the scale there’ll be those pursuing their hobby in a manner I wouldn’t wish to be associated with. Likewise there’ll be folk who fail to see the attraction of such a hobby and where there appears to be some degree of ambiguity in Law will quote whichever interpretation they see appropriate in support of their particular view whilst some will adopt a more laissez faire approach to the whole issue.

Ofcom is clear about listening in to ATC transmissions as these are not general reception transmissions, but scanners capable of receiving transmissions outside of that category are available. If they were banned and I for one would be saddened by it, then the practice of ‘eavesdropping’ as it has been referred to might be resolved, unless a black market emerges for the supply of the receivers.

In time a sophisticated encoded transmission system will no doubt be developed where receiving all such transmissions will not be possible outside of the realm of those specifically authorised to hear them. So be it. In the meantime as long as no criminal act is perpetrated or information acted upon and such listening is carried out discretely, despite the annoyance it will cause to some I see no real harm in enjoying listening to aircraft descending to lower flight levels, being instructed to ‘hold at Lambourne’ or contacting Heathrow ‘Callsign only’ etc l will continue to enjoy this occasional hobby in the privacy of my own home or maybe from my car whenever I drop off or collect someone at Stansted. There’ll no doubt be others with a similar approach to listening to airband receivers and I’m sure they’d also object to being regarded as nuisances.

Somewhere in my distant memory I recall being told it was illegal to listen to the Pirate stations back in the 1960’s, therefore no doubt none of us around at the time ever listened to Radio London, Caroline, Britain Radio, Radio City, 270, 390 etc, right?

B314. I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that people who listen to the airband are nuisances. However, in the world of aircraft spotting there are some morons just like in many other hobbies. For many years my wife and I were keen twitchers - going after rare birds around the country - and some of the lunatics in that hobby had to be seen to be believed.

Contrary to the beliefs of some, I have no desire to spoil anyone's entertainment but as a user both professionally and in my hobby I have very great respect for radio communications and my aim has always been to ensure that people know the law.

I hope you appreciate that having admitted using the airband, and published what you have heard you have broken the law twice!

Plenty of us listened to pirate stations... and plenty of people break the speed limit or carry illegal arms and are never caught. It doesn't mean they haven't broken the law; they've simply got away with it.

radio law
 

Thanks to HD for updates regarding the legal v illegal dispute of listening in to ATC and associated aviation radio xmissions - all provided without the need to add barbed comments and nit picking - unlike one or two other
responses. My information originally posted was obtained prior to 1980 whereas the more recent info posted has updated and clarified the position.
Thanks to HD.

HD, thanks for your reply and before I respond allow me to clarify that I'm not being argumentative on this point (it may appear so from my original post) but merely adding a point of view.

I do accept, as you say that, as the law stands at present, I am breaking it by listening to ATC transmissions. I own a Maycom AR 108 scanner capable of receiving transmissions between 108 and 180 Mhz. This receiver is legally available in this country through a number of outlets.

According to Ofcom: "It is not illegal to sell, buy or own a scanner or any other receiver but it should only be used to listen to transmissions meant for general reception. The services that can be listened to under the definition of general reception are:

1. licensed broadcasting stations;
2. amateur and citizens' band radio transmissions; and
3. weather and navigation transmissions"

To my knowledge none of the above broadcast within that range. Therefore as I see it I am at liberty to purchase the unit but really shouldn't switch it on! Perhaps more stringent controls are required to authorise the manufacture in this country and the importation from overseas of such scanners to ensure that only 'legal' sections of the FM band between 30 and 951 MHz are featured in the receivers, and the permitted frequencies available on units to authorised personnel only, no doubt opening a very big can of administrative and procedural worms in the process.

In time a TETRA style ATC system will no doubt come into being if for no other reason than for increased aviation security and as a result of progress. In the meantime it may be easier to argue for a further review of the Ofcom ruling, but that would take years and may be resolved to eveyone's liking. As for me I won't publicise, act on or undertake any actions as a result of listening to what I find extremly interesting and educational, whilst accepting that, yes, I'm technically breaking the law.


B314

B314. The rules regarding the marketing of radio equipment in this country are almost non-existent and anyone can purchase a transceiver covering the air band. My amateur radio equipment covers from 100kHz to 450mHz and it would be possible for me to transmit pretty well anywhere in that range. I do not because I obey the law.

Until fairly recently huge numbers of cordless telephones operated illegally and it was great fun listening to all my neighbours talking on the amateur band where they should not have been!

It is also possible to buy cars and motorcycles that will do well over 100mph so why are they on sale in a country where the maximum speed is 70?

B314,

The 2 metre amateur band falls within the coverage of your receiver: 144 - 146 MHz. And, at the risk of appearing pedantic, there is no such thing as the 30 - 951 MHz FM band; various users have allocations within that block of spectrum and the modes of transmission they are allowed to use include AM, FM, SSB and CW to name but a few.

And yes, I know that SSB is just another flavour of AM...

Bren as I have posted before, they are breaking a law which has never been enforced in this country in the way that you are making out. It is one of the many laws on the statute books that remain there but are not going to see you before a court unless you break some othetr more serious law. Really.

Not QUITE the same thing, honestly.

You never answered my question incidentally. In the period 1945 to the present day, how many spotters have been before the courts on this matter alone? I am going to say ZERO. The world has moved on from "authority knows best", a little bit of transparency in this area is a good thing IMHO.

As for agreeing with Simon Chowder, shame on you.

You are making a small minority out to be refelective of a decent majority. Simon, given that you are actually KevlarCarl, both Luton Despatchers with a love of gliding, hatred of enthusiasts and BANNED from pprune as such, do tell me again why you hate spotters so that you come into a spotters forum just to spout offensive twaddle?

The PPruNe say quite clearly "No offensive/abusive posts." and yet time and time again you get to spout misrepresentative codswallop under MULTIPLE IDENTITIES. Good grief.

At the least can we ban him from Spotters Balcony because the only reason he posts in here is to break the above PpruNe rule!? Please!