african airspace
 

Have things improved across the African skies since ICAO's push for greater ATC safety in 1997? I am doing some research on it and am talking to the African pilots' unions about the changes but would love to hear from you guys who fly there.

No not really I do mostly East Africa and its still pretty ropey
Cairo is fine
but then you hit the unknown that is will you even get your message through

Nairobi which you'd kind of expect to be a bit on the Up is just chronic.

Strange as it may seem Mogadishu yes and its on HF at least reply to you and try give you info but seeing as their country is in rack and ruin its amazing they have anything

I'd say the answer is No and unlikely to improve, in fact I've to deal with them all in 2 days time and its a matter of listening to continous crackling HF and hopefully everyone transmits on 128.95 as they're supposed to.

The flog up and down to South Africa has only really improved in Chad over the last few years with the advent of VHF relay stations. There are still large comms 'holes' along the route particularly within the Kinshasa and Tripoli FIR's(despite Tripoli apparently having VHF relay stations also).

Speedbrake Lever, if you expect anybody to talk to you on 128.95 over Africa, you are in for a very quiet flight.....

In answer to your amazement Speedbrake, Mogadishu HF has been happily based in Nairobi for well over 5 years now - they might call themselves Mogadishu but they ain't exactly there.

Speedbrake Lever, being a little free with your negative attitude aren't you??
Some of us who work in East Africa are trying very hard to improve ATC, by meeting with them and trying to work together...(this is a full time job for our flight safety officer!!)...they need constructive input like anyone else. I think next time you pass Nairobi, you will find things on the mend, new radar installed, people being trained to use it, VHF coverage improving(albeit slowly!!)
Try 126.9, probably find more people on it in that area

OOPs my apologies yes its 126.9
sorry about that

I know Nairobi does Mogadishu and its good enough but Nairobi itself on 11300 is hit and miss. I am aware they have SSR in NBO i have used it as regards their VHF its Avitu if you're lucky when you pick them up
Ma NDB admittedly a good distance and WAV are almost no -no's not always but generally, I'll admit there's a lot of effort to improve things, but I hear the talk at Wilson too,

i know it will take time but the lead thread seemed to ask has there been an improvement ?

I seem to recollect that last June the COMESA nations in Africa said they were planning to organise a regional air traffic management programme involving modernising ATC over the eastern and southern parts of the continent. Lockheed Martin and the Safe African Skies Group were heavily into the whole thing.

Yes: From leaving Tunisa to entering Zim when it all gets back to normal.

One night over head central Africa we heard a Qantas talking to Manilla on 8903

Another thing, Why do airlines from Southern Europe allegedly never do their IFBP on 126.9

Nairobi is extremely friendly on 11300 and 5517, never a problem. Mogadishu information who sits in the UN HQ Gigiri Nairobi, are extremely helpfull and professional. Addis is fine, and Tripoli is clear, but Khartoum.... just a little to busy at times. Indian ocean is all fine on HF.

Any one know the VHF frequency for flights in Somalia now, besides 126.9. It used to be 127.45 years ago and I believe it has changed.

South Africa - excellent
Mozambique - good comms, controllers can panic a bit when there's more than 1 aircraft in the pattern (as with lots of places in Africa - the radio just goes quiet - the cue for you to start chatting th the other aircraft to arrange your own separation)
Swaziland - good
Botswana - good
Zim - ok to clueless in the day, can often all be sleeping at night
Namibia - good comms, good controllers
Angola - hmmn, some areas good comms, others not, controlling leaves somethign to be desired
Congo - dreadful, can do a whole flight without saying a word
Nigeria - very busy frequencies, comms OK, controlling ok, especially considering the situation they often find themselves in
Ivoire - Half french half english, not the brightest boys either. comms are ok till you go west then its HF
Liberia - was fair last time I was there, they had just got new radios.
Sierra Leone - you're left to your own devices a lot, but not dangerous
Tanzania - comms OK, except coming from Malawi side, theres a bit of a hole there, the controlers need to be watched, I've had incidents there
Guinea - poor comms & controlling
Kenya - good comms, fairly good controllers, can go to pieces when its busy though

Generally you need to keep your wits about you, and keep a lookout, esp. outside & TCAS. Best to have a chilled attitude to the chaos too, getting angry gets you nowhere.

Planecrazi

Have you still got a score to settle in Somalia or thereabouts? You don't need a frequency to do that do you!!

Africa is still Africa for the most part.

Remote VHF antenaes would improve things by at least 100%

Radars another 100%

Keeping all ATC comm English another 100%

-I had a near miss in Senegal decending into Dakar. Air France 747 insisted on reporting his position on climb out using French. Confused the hell out of ATC. Gotta love the TCAS.

Morocco - RVSM
Canaria - RVSM
Libya - HF, Short range VHF, No radar (at least not the kind that guides airplanes
Egypt - Long range VHF, Radar
Burundi - HF, short range VHF, No radar
Congo, DRC - HF, short range VHF, No radar
Uganda - HF, Medium range VHF, No radar
Senegal - Long range VHF, No radar

Use of navigational aid is iffy at most. Unrealiable ILS, VOR etc. Thank god for GPS. Coming out of Europe, weather report stops at North Africa. Most place will report "nil"

Flying in Africa is still pretty much a Black Art, especially trying to put an L1011 into some remote airports.
:uhoh:

Back to the original topic...
 

... which was posted two years ago:

Has anything IMPROVED?

And how is Zimbabwe doing, with everything going down the drain at the moment?

(Just being curios, since going Europe-South Africa/Botswana twice a year as pax...)

FANS
 

It's nearly 2004, a man walked on the moon 35 years ago and we're still shouting over eachother on HF...
Bring on CPDLC and let JNB control the continent! :ok:

Flame Out
wrong, libya does have ssr for the tripoli area, however they don't seem to know how to use it, therefore all positions are based upon radial and dist frm tpi.....

also their hf 11300 works ok during day, but really sucks at night time, you can get a hold of cairo, khartoum and addis, but not tripoli, even if only 400nm's frm tripoli...

I was aware that they have radar but not the friendly kind. Did not know that they have ssr. HF works well as you said for the most part. Not sure if the ILS in TIP is working again. The last time I was there I had to shoot NDB approach to a minimum (yes, amazing, it did rain like a mother. Lucky me). Nice long runway though. And cheap gas too. :hmm:

What is Brazzaville like?
 

This thread caught my eye - I'm supposed to be in Brazzaville in the next couple of months and wondered safe that is?

F.