New Chinese narrowbody, would you take the helm?
 

China will build its own narrowbody: Comac C-919

Say a HKG carrier orders a bunch and it meets all Chinese requirements, are you ready?

http://www.people.cq.cn/upfile/20090307183241-2.jpg

I heard Walmart is going to be marketing it. Available at a Walmart near you in 2012 for low low prices.

Hopefully they don't have the same safety and crashworthiness engineers as this Chinese truck: YouTube - Chinese truck crash test ... :rolleyes:

What's wrong with that test? The flat screens and DVD players in the back would almost certainly have been undamaged.

PM

they have been building embraer 145s for years. You might make fun but once they start they will soon overtake the US and EU manufactures. How many of you bought a TV or computer that wasn't made in china?

Xenophobic and inaccurate

misler... Inaccurate post of misrepresented video!
 

Yes, that was a Volkswagen T3 Dopplekabiner (Doka) testing the facility - no timing marks.

misler - Do background checks before posting misleading links please

Looked like the front energy absorbing beam (behind the bumper had been removed)

This is a fake, Chinese never made VW T3 !!

It's a test of the crash facility wall, probably 100 Km/h with up to 2 ton in the back!!

German T3s will win a fight with a Volvo Estate...

Here is the debunk video.. just watch the Volvo disintegrate
YouTube - What about that VW t3 crash test?

PS. I have a 4WD version of that truck, they are fantastic and very strong vehicles

There int nowt wrong wit that ship lad. got wings and a couple o engine ennit?

Funny how it's perceived that these aircraft are of a certain 'risk' [title alone]. Yet as FE Hopper said, the vast quantity of exports from China would suggest that with time, it is entirely possible that the leading manufacturer will one day be from China!

Not only possible, I would say definately...

I am betting some of the same inane drivel was posted when Brazil started making planes...

Not like they aren't making A320's already. :ugh:

... that said, several thousand tons of cheap Chinese rubbish is now in UK landfill, powertools that last a week or a month at best, copies (often illegal) of Japanese utility engines and contractor eqpt etc.
A lot also now is graded and sorted and returned as metal scrap to China (or was till recently).... but the environmental cost of buying cheap 'disposable' ill-engineered equipment and tools is really appalling!

I guess the obvious followup to that would be 'it takes time to perfect anything', but I wouldnt like to use that in this case!
A few tv's cathode tubes go, new model comes out, problem fixed.
I guess though the same cant be said for aircraft!

Is it possible though the UK produces just as much crap as China relative to the population.

If they cant do the good better, we wont buy. But judging by the weekend market stalls, if they can do the cheap cheaper, we will!

Junk from China
 

Some of the stuff from China is in the same league as the Hillman Imp, Vauxhall Victor and Bond tri-wheelers. The Chinese don't have exclusive rights to the production of crap.

How is the safety and reliability of Chinese aircraft that are flying now?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chinese_aircraft

I hate facts when I was having such a good chuckle from Misler and Putdown man posts.

It's almost entirely a question of how well they *choose* to build it, and whether they can keep the process sufficiently free of corruption to maintain the standards.

The PRC produces a truckload of crap; it also produces a lot of stuff that is fair value for its low price, and some products that are sold under very prestigious Western brands.

If they want it to sell in the international market, then the odds are that the technology will be slightly behind the cutting edge, the quality will be at least acceptable, and the price highly competitive.

And your point is kisjee?
We in the West only produce world beating, top notch, foolproof and ultimately relaible products?

Add to the list of useless junk produced in the UK the following;
All Vauxhall, Ford, BMC products ever built prior to about 1990.
All financial and banking products since 1997.
All politicians since 1900.
All transport systems since the Romans.
All airports in UK, apart from Bournemouth.

Have you been to Shanghai, amongst a hundred other similar cities, lately?

The public transport system works, the airport works, the traffic moves, the infrastructure hums along quietly and we have the arrogance to assume that everything Chinese is crap?

Join the 21st Century and see the World the way it will be, not the way it was.

I'd fly it today.

I've read that the Chinese learned how to construct commercial aircraft from Airbus. The only problem I see here is the parts of the thing may have been built by 8 year olds.

looking at the pictures (computer-generated), seems to me that the C919 is a half breed of an Airbus 319 and a Boeing 737NG.... :E

The Chinese don't sell them in UK do they? UK shops etc sell them. The Chinese produce to the buyers spec for the buyers price, the Chinese factories and the Chinese products are often audited by the buyers or the appointed agents of the buyers.

So go figure who is at fault over the technical specifications and product quality.

And trust me - buying & selling from / to China has been my living for many years; the buyers are at least half of the problem.

If you fly a 737NG, your aircraft's vertical fin was made in Xián. China has been making EMB145s, Dauphins and Do 228s under license. A320s will be made in Tianjin very soon. Mercedes C class cars made in China are acknowleged to be of better quality that the ones made in the US.

So the answer is yes. I would fly it.

(My company is getting some of those 320s).

China already has an A320 final assembly plant located not too far from Beijing. So the A320 you may be flying in the future, may infact be assembled in China!

First Airbus final assembly line outside Europe inaugurated in Tianjin, China

A bit of a strange thread this one. It is like asking if you would boycott a product of china's without knowing if its the best thing since sliced bread or a rickshaw of the skies.

Why would a plane just because it is desgined and built in China be any less safe than one built in the USA or EUROPE.

It will after all have to meet the safety certifcation standards for each country they intend to fly them in to.

A poorly maintained boeing/airbus can rightfully be considered a danger, but its got nothing to do with where its made.

Heard that RYR are ready to purchase 1000 :}

Ignorance:
 

HarryMann:
You need educating and a good place to start would be to inform you of a famous quotation by Chairman Mao Zedong who said, Quote: " If you don't have all the facts and don't fully understand the problem you are not entitled to speak" Unquote. This fits you to a tee so I suggest you take it on board and start updating your thinking. While you are at it you might care to re-read what Rubik101 has to say about junk produced in the UK.

828a

Constant Spec, constant QC; PRC subscribes to the same UN (ICAO) Technical-matters conventions as the rest of us do. TWA flew 5 MD83 from 1994, assembled in Shanghai. Licence-assembly programs now have a gradual move to local fabrication from local basic metals: that gives eye-watering potential cost reductions. As LT says, Buyer must deal with (the "paper trail", as was) record-keeping: gaps here have caused premature parting-out of Chinese-operated Western equipment. If Ford could build fine Merlins in 1941, their site a target for the Luftwaffe, best assume PRC will continue to deliver, on-Spec, on-time anything they choose.

828a
 

Whoa there :rolleyes:

Did I say the Chinese don't make anything any good? No

What point was I making, any idea? No!

I was making an environmental point, that:

a) Making seriously sub-standard products (by any measure) costs energy and pollution
b) Shipping them to the West costs energy
c) Selling and then them packing up after 1/10th the life they should takes energy
d) Scrapping, managing and sorting the waste takes energy (and some gets into landfill, pollution)
e) Shipping the scrap steel and rare metals etc back to China takes energy and pollution


I agree - buyers/sellers like R0!son are responsible for low specs, make to a price, but then the following example is not just low spec. but plain poor quality control and carelessness.

I have a R0!son jetwash, powered by a Chinese copy of a Honda utility engine: It was given me by someone who bought it new. It had never started once, from new due to a camshaft assembly error (Internal, requiring crankcases to be split)

I am sure the buyer didn't specify that they don't start :ugh:

But yes, if they paid them £1 more for product testing and inspection it probably wouldn't happen.. so they're both to blame. Fact is, neither care!

PS. The perishable parts are just that, so all that metal casting and machining and shipping and distribution costs would anyway, not result in a reasonable utilisation over a reasonable period.

It seems far from ignorant making this point, although you seem to lack the intelligence to comprehend it :=

I am sorry to say these Assembled in China Airbus A320s may only distribute to Chinese carriers only due to different market price per order. ( I guess.)
And also there are larger amounts of orders from Chinese carriers so they may only in Chinese market. Like those assembled in China Audis, Merceds, BMWs,ONLY THERE WITHIN Chinese market.

........joining the cheap US and European-made rubbish that's already there, much of it from my workshop, where the Chinese stuff is still going strong.

http://shanghaiist.com/attachments/s...craft-c919.jpg

It seems they are progressing fast.

GE says they are confident to power the C919. question is if they will offer the state of the art LeapX engine.

GE says confident of winning China engine contract - Yahoo! Finance

That could make it 15% more efficient the current narrowbodies.

A long variant is planned offering more then 200 seats and A320 containers competability..

Airbus and Boeing sofar siad >2020 for their new designs.

Has it gone through the FAA and EASA tests yet ?
Based on my experience with China made electrical products, I would stay away from them. Had a fan a few months old almost catching fire. A MP3 player going kaput after just a few months.
Generally, these products are cheap knockoffs from their western counterparts. On the exterior they look almost the same, but on the inside, the parts are always inferior leading to their short lives. Basically, you pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Also, it's not a matter of where it's made, but who's managing the plant. I would feel safer if there was some sort of official collaboration or technical sharing from Boeing or Airbus.

I know, it's a politically incorrect statement to say an aircraft is unsafe just because of where it's made or the nationality of the people making it.. But, there have been numerous times when products from China came out on the news for the wrong reasons. E.g: melamine laced foods, industrial additives laced medicine, structurally unsound buildings. Their QC is non-existent.

Hope that C919 would prove me wrong. Only time would tell.

Can anyone remember the Shanghai Y-10?
Reverse engineered Boeing 707

The copied Antonov An-24 etc.
They seem to be ok?????

Looks like a perfect copy of the ERJ-195.

If it can match the seat costs of the 737-800 it would make good business sense for FR to buy 1000 as someone suggested. Same costs with 60% of the seats (i.e. 60% of the exposure).

Would be interesting to see the fuel consumption figures.

Surely no country would allow its certification authorities to permit a rushed design to make it into production with underlying structural flaws, false ship-modification records, unauthorised maintenance procedures etc etc etc... ;)

DC-10 anyone? :{

Only this evening I have been looking at booking myself flights with carrier 'Zest Airways' and looking at their fleet info realised I would be flying on a:

The MA60 is an advanced 50-60 seat class regional turboprop aircraft developed by Xi'an Aircraft Company of China aviation Industry Corporation I (AVICI).

I'd never heard of the thing but, in my time, having flown on some rust bucket Antonov 24's, Yak 42's & TU-134's at least this time I'll be flying on modern equipment!