Ryanair pilots: Are you happy?(merged)
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Ryanair: In Danger Of Losing Licence To Fly
BALPA
NEWS RELEASE
For immediate release: 11 September 2002
RYANAIR: IN DANGER OF LOSING LICENCE TO FLY
Pilots working for Ryanair are receiving conflicting advice about how many hours they should fly and today the British Air Line Pilots' Association (BALPA) wrote to the Chief Pilot at Ryanair demanding clarification.
Graham Fowler, Deputy General Secretary of BALPA said pilots faced uncertainty, and uncertainty does not make for a safe situation.
He said: 'Ryanair has told its pilots that the Irish Aviation Authority has agreed with the company on a change in the way flying hours are counted (to a fixed year, April 1 to March 31, in effect disregarding all hours flown up to and including March 31).
'However, the Irish Aviation Authority has told Ryanair pilots that there is no such agreement with the airline and pilots should continue counting flying hours on a rolling 12 month period.
'The Irish Aviation Authority has confirmed this to BALPA.
'We are asking the Chief Pilot at Ryanair to clarify the situation. There is a danger that by switching to a fixed year period pilots would be scheduled by the airline to fly more than the 900 hours a year limit. 'The limit is a vital element of the rules which govern pilot hours to ensure they are properly rested and fit to fly.
'Ryanair must do as the Irish Aviation Authority has ruled. If it does not, it stands in danger of having its licence to fly withdrawn.'
For further information contact Ken Stevens or Keith Bill on 020 7924 7555
NEWS RELEASE
For immediate release: 11 September 2002
RYANAIR: IN DANGER OF LOSING LICENCE TO FLY
Pilots working for Ryanair are receiving conflicting advice about how many hours they should fly and today the British Air Line Pilots' Association (BALPA) wrote to the Chief Pilot at Ryanair demanding clarification.
Graham Fowler, Deputy General Secretary of BALPA said pilots faced uncertainty, and uncertainty does not make for a safe situation.
He said: 'Ryanair has told its pilots that the Irish Aviation Authority has agreed with the company on a change in the way flying hours are counted (to a fixed year, April 1 to March 31, in effect disregarding all hours flown up to and including March 31).
'However, the Irish Aviation Authority has told Ryanair pilots that there is no such agreement with the airline and pilots should continue counting flying hours on a rolling 12 month period.
'The Irish Aviation Authority has confirmed this to BALPA.
'We are asking the Chief Pilot at Ryanair to clarify the situation. There is a danger that by switching to a fixed year period pilots would be scheduled by the airline to fly more than the 900 hours a year limit. 'The limit is a vital element of the rules which govern pilot hours to ensure they are properly rested and fit to fly.
'Ryanair must do as the Irish Aviation Authority has ruled. If it does not, it stands in danger of having its licence to fly withdrawn.'
For further information contact Ken Stevens or Keith Bill on 020 7924 7555
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Ryanair: Cabin crew trainees being "passed" that cannot swim
I have it from the horse’s mouth that Ryanair cabin crew trainees are being “passed” on their courses even though they cannot swim.
An eye witness, a very close friend, has personally seen recruits who cannot swim being “allowed” to pass the swimming / rescue section of the course.
Is this acceptable?
Danny, we wouldn’t bash Ryanair if there were nothing to bash about.
No smoke without fire.
An eye witness, a very close friend, has personally seen recruits who cannot swim being “allowed” to pass the swimming / rescue section of the course.
Is this acceptable?
Danny, we wouldn’t bash Ryanair if there were nothing to bash about.
No smoke without fire.
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Great stuff here, but as someone who has been an airline pilot since 1974 I have made the decision to join the infamous Ryans and get away from the traditional non-substainable airline scene. In doing so I also expect to make a considerable gain in nett income!
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AJ
"Do you fly for Ryanair Bucking Bronco ? If not, pipe down and allow the rest of us to make our own decisions."
??????????
The q's I asked where directed at 2 people who believed that FR was so good that they wouldn't go anywhere else. There are other, better options I believe. No company is perfect but at the end of the day I would rather work for one that didn't screw its own employees so that it could subsidise passengers.
BTW I have friends that work for FR and they like it, but like I say it's not for me and it might not be for others out there. I, for one, enjoy my nightstops.
AJ I take it then seeing as you are putting your oar in that you work for Ryanair?
All the best
BB
"Do you fly for Ryanair Bucking Bronco ? If not, pipe down and allow the rest of us to make our own decisions."
??????????
The q's I asked where directed at 2 people who believed that FR was so good that they wouldn't go anywhere else. There are other, better options I believe. No company is perfect but at the end of the day I would rather work for one that didn't screw its own employees so that it could subsidise passengers.
BTW I have friends that work for FR and they like it, but like I say it's not for me and it might not be for others out there. I, for one, enjoy my nightstops.
AJ I take it then seeing as you are putting your oar in that you work for Ryanair?
All the best
BB
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We should change all ryanair posts on pprune and title them all
''SEND IN THE CLOWNS'' in this case Bucking Buffoon & Ynsl.
So here goes boys....lessons for idiots part 5
I prefer working for an airline where the crews come first,
-rosters out 4 weeks in advance and days off guaranteed
-block of earlies foll by 2 off followed by block of lates then 3 off
-no overnights
-brand new a/c with 100 more on the way
-rapid promotion and rapid pay inc's.You make l/h seat in 2 yrs
-pay better than any other 737 operator in europe
-monthly sector chq of approx £1800 into my hand
-share options that have risen in value by over £100k
-oh and a 3%pay inc last april and again in 3 months time
So bucking idiot,when your wonderful employer were matching
your charity contribution were they also matching the fr package
as above? Or were they just making 5000 people redundant?
Tell me b.b. how big was your pay inc last year? this year?
Finally b.b...horses mouth? More like horses ass in your case?
Did balpa get any reply last sept....apart from F.O! from fr pilots!
''SEND IN THE CLOWNS'' in this case Bucking Buffoon & Ynsl.
So here goes boys....lessons for idiots part 5
I prefer working for an airline where the crews come first,
-rosters out 4 weeks in advance and days off guaranteed
-block of earlies foll by 2 off followed by block of lates then 3 off
-no overnights
-brand new a/c with 100 more on the way
-rapid promotion and rapid pay inc's.You make l/h seat in 2 yrs
-pay better than any other 737 operator in europe
-monthly sector chq of approx £1800 into my hand
-share options that have risen in value by over £100k
-oh and a 3%pay inc last april and again in 3 months time
So bucking idiot,when your wonderful employer were matching
your charity contribution were they also matching the fr package
as above? Or were they just making 5000 people redundant?
Tell me b.b. how big was your pay inc last year? this year?
Finally b.b...horses mouth? More like horses ass in your case?
Did balpa get any reply last sept....apart from F.O! from fr pilots!
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Bronco,
As someone who doesn't work for Ryanair or for the great BA gravy train, I can only look at your points in wonder and I would be bloody happy working for either. HOWEVER...
If you really wanted to work for an airline, who gives a monkey's about £100 travelling expenses. Would you turn an interview down on those principles??
If you don't want to waste your life sitting 6 miles up for 12 hours at a go with your thumb up your butt, then what difference does it make if there's the choice of longhaul or not?
If all the routes are roughly the same length and you want to be "home" every night, then does it really matter which piece of tarmac you fly to?
Feeds you while you work... As someone who works for a part of "the world's favourite "free" sandwich provider" I can easily pick up better than crew food at the local petrol station for £5 and take it to work.
I agree with you on the pension, but are there many jobs you can go to where you will get Final Salary any more?
I also agree that training should be paid for by the airline and requested days off are nice. No question there.
At the end of the day, you choose what you want out of life.
I'd be more than happy earning more money than I could shake a stick at with BA shorthaul, but when you're not eligible simply because you fly a turboprop, and are looking for bigger, noisier and more stable jobs at the moment, there really isn't much choice other than Ryan or EZ at the moment!!!!!
Yes, I'm just envious all round!
As someone who doesn't work for Ryanair or for the great BA gravy train, I can only look at your points in wonder and I would be bloody happy working for either. HOWEVER...
If you really wanted to work for an airline, who gives a monkey's about £100 travelling expenses. Would you turn an interview down on those principles??
If you don't want to waste your life sitting 6 miles up for 12 hours at a go with your thumb up your butt, then what difference does it make if there's the choice of longhaul or not?
If all the routes are roughly the same length and you want to be "home" every night, then does it really matter which piece of tarmac you fly to?
Feeds you while you work... As someone who works for a part of "the world's favourite "free" sandwich provider" I can easily pick up better than crew food at the local petrol station for £5 and take it to work.
I agree with you on the pension, but are there many jobs you can go to where you will get Final Salary any more?
I also agree that training should be paid for by the airline and requested days off are nice. No question there.
At the end of the day, you choose what you want out of life.
I'd be more than happy earning more money than I could shake a stick at with BA shorthaul, but when you're not eligible simply because you fly a turboprop, and are looking for bigger, noisier and more stable jobs at the moment, there really isn't much choice other than Ryan or EZ at the moment!!!!!
Yes, I'm just envious all round!
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What exactly is the FR roster pattern. Is it 5 on 3 off ad infinitum, or 5 on 3 off, 4 on 2 off.
If it is the latter, it means you work the same days each fortnight. Good if you're days off fall at the weekend; but if not, you'll never see another weekend off in your career.
Which one is it?
(p.s this asn't a bash , just a question from a buzz pilot)
If it is the latter, it means you work the same days each fortnight. Good if you're days off fall at the weekend; but if not, you'll never see another weekend off in your career.
Which one is it?
(p.s this asn't a bash , just a question from a buzz pilot)
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Can anybody help please?
I currently fly for KLC uk ltd but have a bid to transfer to Buzz (Ryanair?). I note that there is a general outline of T&C's on Ryanair homepage but would be grateful if someone could give me the low down on the exact deal.
Here's what I'm after:
1. Basic salary for F/O and Captain
2. Sector pay (how much and is it different for Captain and F/O's)
3. More gen on what the pension offers
4. What are the share options
5. Limits on flight hours
6. Is there a requirement to live within a certain travelling time of STN with regards to standbys
7. What exactly is the roster pattern
8. What type of bond does FR use if any
9. What is the deal with payment of sector pay (is it cash in hand or in payslip and how much has to go to the Gordon Brown Pension Fund)
10. Is it possible to request Days off for kids birthdays wedding anniversaries etc
Any other info you can think of which may be of help
My e-mail address should be at the bottom of this post.
Many thanks for your help
I currently fly for KLC uk ltd but have a bid to transfer to Buzz (Ryanair?). I note that there is a general outline of T&C's on Ryanair homepage but would be grateful if someone could give me the low down on the exact deal.
Here's what I'm after:
1. Basic salary for F/O and Captain
2. Sector pay (how much and is it different for Captain and F/O's)
3. More gen on what the pension offers
4. What are the share options
5. Limits on flight hours
6. Is there a requirement to live within a certain travelling time of STN with regards to standbys
7. What exactly is the roster pattern
8. What type of bond does FR use if any
9. What is the deal with payment of sector pay (is it cash in hand or in payslip and how much has to go to the Gordon Brown Pension Fund)
10. Is it possible to request Days off for kids birthdays wedding anniversaries etc
Any other info you can think of which may be of help
My e-mail address should be at the bottom of this post.
Many thanks for your help
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hi flarepath
1) for f/o UK i believe up to £29k (but there are many divisions). capts Uk c£49k.
2) in the UK you can reasonably account for £2000 per month. the sector pay for new f/os is stepped but full sector pay for f/o and capt is identical.
3) embarassed to say not sure, but understand it's not brilliant but not expensive for what it is.
4) up until now £10000 worth anually at a strike price as at june/july. doesn't cost anything.
5) standard 900/year. last 2 years i've done about 850/year.
6) 1 hours travelling time from base.
7) 5 earlies 3 off, 5 lates 3 off ad infinitum. although there is the proviso that you may only have 2 days off but that can only happen 6 times per year max. and must be earlies on to lates. roster issued 4 weeks in advance, every week (very stable).
8) no idea i'm afraid if you're coming from buzz.
9)sector pay comes as a cheque net of tax. p60 for gordon comes with all correct figures after 6 april.
10) yep, either as leave or, probably easier due to the roster, with a swop.
FR has its detractors - especially on this forum. i'm not saying its perfect - far from it, but its good steady work. equally as professional as the 2 other airlines i have worked for.
upside - home every night, good people, good pay, (reasonably) secure employment.
downside - ropey management style, long hours (and before anybody hijacks this, i'm not talking about fatigue - the roster works).
i'm not management, just a cog-in-the-wheel line captain. i can't say it's the best job in the world, but it's a very, very long way from the worst.
also this is a personal view. others may differ.
(edited for tax stupidity!)
1) for f/o UK i believe up to £29k (but there are many divisions). capts Uk c£49k.
2) in the UK you can reasonably account for £2000 per month. the sector pay for new f/os is stepped but full sector pay for f/o and capt is identical.
3) embarassed to say not sure, but understand it's not brilliant but not expensive for what it is.
4) up until now £10000 worth anually at a strike price as at june/july. doesn't cost anything.
5) standard 900/year. last 2 years i've done about 850/year.
6) 1 hours travelling time from base.
7) 5 earlies 3 off, 5 lates 3 off ad infinitum. although there is the proviso that you may only have 2 days off but that can only happen 6 times per year max. and must be earlies on to lates. roster issued 4 weeks in advance, every week (very stable).
8) no idea i'm afraid if you're coming from buzz.
9)sector pay comes as a cheque net of tax. p60 for gordon comes with all correct figures after 6 april.
10) yep, either as leave or, probably easier due to the roster, with a swop.
FR has its detractors - especially on this forum. i'm not saying its perfect - far from it, but its good steady work. equally as professional as the 2 other airlines i have worked for.
upside - home every night, good people, good pay, (reasonably) secure employment.
downside - ropey management style, long hours (and before anybody hijacks this, i'm not talking about fatigue - the roster works).
i'm not management, just a cog-in-the-wheel line captain. i can't say it's the best job in the world, but it's a very, very long way from the worst.
also this is a personal view. others may differ.
(edited for tax stupidity!)
Last edited by Ryanairpilot; 7th Feb 2003 at 01:38.
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I have to say that I find it interesting that people find they need to resort to personal insults in order to back their arguments up.
Perhaps it isn't Bucking Bronco who should be piping down...
Perhaps it isn't Bucking Bronco who should be piping down...
Last edited by ramsrc; 7th Feb 2003 at 06:29.
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Iluv2fly (off the handle)
If I may take each of your points from your outburst in turn…
- Rosters. It's nice to know that you have rosters 4 weeks in advance. At my company we have a bidding system where we can work which days we want to and as of 4th of feb I knew what was on my roster until 4th of april. If you're working blocks of 5 days of day trips followed by 3 days off ad infinitum what use is a roster?
- Blocks of earlies followed by lates. An excellent way of doing things, somebody in crewing obviously has heard of circadian rhythmic lag.
- No overnights. That's great for you as that is obviously your preference, I on the other hand being young and single like being paid to lie on a beach, go on safari, ski or stroll around a foreign city. At my company you have the option to work whichever patterns suit you.
- Brand new a/c. Fantastic, we've got some A321s on order as well but this doesn't really demonstrate whether an airline places its crews first.
- Rapid promotion. Yes an enviable trait of any expanding airline, but quick commands have been dished out at my company too (away from main base) – and 2 years was the length of service required.
- Pay. Shorthaul Captain's Basic salary in my company pp1 £54k - pp24 £102.3k, add variable pay onto this of between £8k and £20k per year.
- Share options. Yes yours have way outstripped ours and also we were capped at the same investment rate as other employees, yours wins hands down. I hope, for you that it will continue but doubt whether it can maintain the performance it has done recently.
- Pay inc. Last year I got a £4k rise in basic, this year I'm looking forward to a £10k rise in basic. Pay alone though does not demonstrate how much your company values you.
- Package. Yes your package is good if you look at salary and your share options but that seems about it. Ours is also a reasonable package but also has a final salary pension scheme which is currently allowing guys who crystalised to retire on six figure pensions. Also we have private healthcare, worldwide staff travel, the opportunity for part time work, training costs met by the company and the list goes on…
Honestly I don't know why you're getting all worked up for? I hope that when you're at work your fuse is a little longer and you don't resort to rants and name calling if someone's opinion differs from yours.
In my post I was pointing out that there are other operators out there who, in my opinion offer a better deal than FR. That's why I am where I am and probably why you are where you are – it comes down to personal choice and opportunity.
Kind Regards
Bucking Bronco
Square wheels
You shouldn't have to pay for interview/application costs it's that simple! Which other companies/industries does this happen in? And yes I would turn down an interview if they asked me for any money, it's something I feel very strongly about as you can see on the following thread…
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=80244
If you're not fussed about longhaul then you're right it doesn't matter whether the operator offers it or not – again personal choice.
With respect to crew food, at FR if you worked 200 days a year then that £5/day adds up to £1000.
BA is starting to make noises about hiring DEPs again; requirements, as you know, do vary according to market forces.
If I was out there I'd consider all the options (FR being one of them) at the end of the day I posted in reply to a couple of other chaps who said that FR was the bees knees – I disagree.
All the best
BB
If I may take each of your points from your outburst in turn…
- Rosters. It's nice to know that you have rosters 4 weeks in advance. At my company we have a bidding system where we can work which days we want to and as of 4th of feb I knew what was on my roster until 4th of april. If you're working blocks of 5 days of day trips followed by 3 days off ad infinitum what use is a roster?
- Blocks of earlies followed by lates. An excellent way of doing things, somebody in crewing obviously has heard of circadian rhythmic lag.
- No overnights. That's great for you as that is obviously your preference, I on the other hand being young and single like being paid to lie on a beach, go on safari, ski or stroll around a foreign city. At my company you have the option to work whichever patterns suit you.
- Brand new a/c. Fantastic, we've got some A321s on order as well but this doesn't really demonstrate whether an airline places its crews first.
- Rapid promotion. Yes an enviable trait of any expanding airline, but quick commands have been dished out at my company too (away from main base) – and 2 years was the length of service required.
- Pay. Shorthaul Captain's Basic salary in my company pp1 £54k - pp24 £102.3k, add variable pay onto this of between £8k and £20k per year.
- Share options. Yes yours have way outstripped ours and also we were capped at the same investment rate as other employees, yours wins hands down. I hope, for you that it will continue but doubt whether it can maintain the performance it has done recently.
- Pay inc. Last year I got a £4k rise in basic, this year I'm looking forward to a £10k rise in basic. Pay alone though does not demonstrate how much your company values you.
- Package. Yes your package is good if you look at salary and your share options but that seems about it. Ours is also a reasonable package but also has a final salary pension scheme which is currently allowing guys who crystalised to retire on six figure pensions. Also we have private healthcare, worldwide staff travel, the opportunity for part time work, training costs met by the company and the list goes on…
Honestly I don't know why you're getting all worked up for? I hope that when you're at work your fuse is a little longer and you don't resort to rants and name calling if someone's opinion differs from yours.
In my post I was pointing out that there are other operators out there who, in my opinion offer a better deal than FR. That's why I am where I am and probably why you are where you are – it comes down to personal choice and opportunity.
Kind Regards
Bucking Bronco
Square wheels
You shouldn't have to pay for interview/application costs it's that simple! Which other companies/industries does this happen in? And yes I would turn down an interview if they asked me for any money, it's something I feel very strongly about as you can see on the following thread…
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=80244
If you're not fussed about longhaul then you're right it doesn't matter whether the operator offers it or not – again personal choice.
With respect to crew food, at FR if you worked 200 days a year then that £5/day adds up to £1000.
BA is starting to make noises about hiring DEPs again; requirements, as you know, do vary according to market forces.
If I was out there I'd consider all the options (FR being one of them) at the end of the day I posted in reply to a couple of other chaps who said that FR was the bees knees – I disagree.
All the best
BB
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Ryanairpilot:
Many sincere thanks for your help and also putting it in a language that I can understand!!
It's made the decision a lot easier for me. It must be nice to have a correct P60 at the end of the year, they haven't got mine right yet!
To everyone else:
I think it is useful to have frank and open views aired as it can show whether the grass really is greener on the other side of the fence or just dry and parched! At the end of the day one man's light chop is another's heavy turbulence.
BB:
May your cocktails be cold and fruity! I am quite happy with my armchair and a whiskey that I know hasn't been watered down
Many sincere thanks for your help and also putting it in a language that I can understand!!
It's made the decision a lot easier for me. It must be nice to have a correct P60 at the end of the year, they haven't got mine right yet!
To everyone else:
I think it is useful to have frank and open views aired as it can show whether the grass really is greener on the other side of the fence or just dry and parched! At the end of the day one man's light chop is another's heavy turbulence.
BB:
May your cocktails be cold and fruity! I am quite happy with my armchair and a whiskey that I know hasn't been watered down