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Virgin Atlantic

Old 18th Mar 2020, 08:23
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UK
Age: 63
Posts: 185
To be fair SRB did step in twice to save the airline -
In the 90's he sold Virgin Records to prop up Virgin Atlantic and after 9/11 he put in hundreds of £millions of his own money to save the Company that was 2 days away from collapse.
We'll just have to see if/what he does now personally.
Branson had deep pockets twice in the past to save the airline which he has always called ''his baby''

It was the CEO of the Virgin Group that owns 51% of VS and the VS MD that has approached HM Govt. not actually SRB currently.

We (The aviation world) has never seen such unprecedented times - I can see the World and all the economies having to press the reset button on all business, debt is wiped off, State aid is given (which has been done so far to initial responses in the UK) and then we all start again.
rog747 is offline  
Old 18th Mar 2020, 08:33
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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Sir Richard Branson has insisted he did not leave Britain for tax reasons, saying he was living on his holiday island of Necker in the British Virgin Islands (BVI) because he loves the place.
So he is non resident and not a British tax payer, but wants the British tax payer to help his 'baby'.
beardy is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 02:17
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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As a non-public company, and therefore its demise won't impact pension funds etc. I'm not expecting the UK govt to assist. Trump might through a bail out of Delta....
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 04:36
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Branson might be have a few problem coming his way, as his cruise line has also been dry docked due corona. Interesting to see what kind of cash burn rate a brand new cruise line could sustain along with the airline. Probably 2 of the hardest hit sectors.
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 09:31
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Far East
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Govt bailout ??? yes or no
Looks like Virgin have a lot of opposition to receiving any assistance. Willie Walsh has stated he is against it , Labour shadow transport secretary stated in HofC that Branson should spend his own cash ans Joe public is against a company owned 49% by Delta and 51% owned by a multi billionaire receiving any tax payers money.
After 9/11 approx 180 f/o's were cast adrift and 80 Captains offered those f/o positions or unpaid leave etc. They retired the classic 747 back then and grounded the A340's.
Looks like this downturn could be longer lasting and more damaging.
Govt didnt assist before ,cant see them doing so this time either and Boris wont want to be seen doing so by Tax payers.
Get ready for redundancies.
Which fleet will they ground this time ?


Last edited by wisecaptain; 19th Mar 2020 at 10:22.
wisecaptain is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 11:13
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
Branson might be have a few problem coming his way, as his cruise line has also been dry docked due corona. Interesting to see what kind of cash burn rate a brand new cruise line could sustain along with the airline. Probably 2 of the hardest hit sectors.
Agreed plus Delta bailing out.
Phantom4 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 11:26
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Does this mean that any company with a billionaire owning just a part of it should be excluded from receiving any government help??

Who is the biggest shareholder of British Airways/(IAG)? Hmmm, Qatar Airways owns 21% doesn’t it?

Who is the largest shareholder of EasyJet? Hmm Stelios Haji-loannou with 34%

Who is the largest shareholder of the TUI group Alexey Mordashov with 25%
virgin mary is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 11:34
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Capitalism – which in its purest form is entrepreneurism even among the poorest of the poor – does work; but those who make money from it should put back into society, not just sit on it as if they are hatching eggs.”
Words are cheap, well his are, in our local charity bookshop.
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Old 19th Mar 2020, 11:34
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Originally Posted by virgin mary View Post
Does this mean that any company with a billionaire owning just a part of it should be excluded from receiving any government help??

Who is the biggest shareholder of British Airways/(IAG)? Hmmm, Qatar Airways owns 21% doesn’t it?

Who is the largest shareholder of EasyJet? Hmm Stelios Haji-loannou with 34%

Who is the largest shareholder of the TUI group Alexey Mordashov with 25%
None of them should get anything more than loans. Maybe low interest loans, but that's it. If they fail, someone else will buy the assets and continue flying. The planes, pilots and cabin crew won't disappear.

This is not like the banking crisis. Pulling the plug on airlines won't destroy the entire economy (if it isn't already destroyed by the virus).
marchino61 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 12:07
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 25
Perhaps, any state aid should be in return for a stake in these companies. (As with the £460 billion bailout for the Banks in 2008).

virgin mary is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 15:10
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
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Originally Posted by marchino61 View Post
None of them should get anything more than loans. Maybe low interest loans, but that's it. If they fail, someone else will buy the assets and continue flying. The planes, pilots and cabin crew won't disappear.

This is not like the banking crisis. Pulling the plug on airlines won't destroy the entire economy (if it isn't already destroyed by the virus).
People are forgetting that the Airlines are owned primarily by investment funds, using our money from Pensions. People demanding that all the troubled Airlines be allowed to fail are impacting their own pension funds. Although -30% down, they will rebound in time, if you let the airlines fail, then all investment returns are lost. Everyone loses....Investors, Pension Fund Holder, Employees, Suppliers, Suppliers Employees.....and so on. I doubt those calling for the axe to fall would not be so gung-ho if it were there jobs at risk.

Astir 511 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2020, 15:20
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
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It’s a very tricky decision for somebody to take. I hate to think how much money a grounded airline like Virgin/BA consumes every day. I don’t think it’s feasible for the U.K. tax payer to bail out VS/BA/U2 etc as the numbers are too big. Additionally all are really multinational airlines.
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Old 20th Mar 2020, 00:17
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: London
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Originally Posted by Astir 511 View Post
People are forgetting that the Airlines are owned primarily by investment funds, using our money from Pensions. People demanding that all the troubled Airlines be allowed to fail are impacting their own pension funds. Although -30% down, they will rebound in time, if you let the airlines fail, then all investment returns are lost. Everyone loses....Investors, Pension Fund Holder, Employees, Suppliers, Suppliers Employees.....and so on. I doubt those calling for the axe to fall would not be so gung-ho if it were there jobs at risk.
You can make that argument for any major listed company. If nothing was allowed to fail then the Government would run out of money pretty soon. If Virgin goes out of business then when the upturn arrives some other airline will fill that void - just as they did when Lakers went bust or Dan-air.
cashash is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2020, 09:35
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
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I’m surprised at the intimate knowledge some have of how much ready cash SRB has in his wallet. Perhaps he, like many of us, has taken a hefty hit from the collapse of the stock market. His appeal could be likened to vegemite, hate it/like it.
The thought of VS going to the wall will be music to BA’s ears and a nightmare for British travellers having no British competitor for long haul.
Gove N.T. is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2020, 10:12
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: gatwick
Age: 47
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British government can only financially support with the aid of investors. Basic economics.

Cannot think the music BA is hearing is anything other than a slow waltz. They are more interested in their future never mind a demise of VS.

All airlines face a very difficult time as our population is facing this virus.
rotorwills is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2020, 12:13
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 452
Follow the NZ government lead, loan with interest to Air NZ, various tranches available and mechanisms in place to ensure the money is repaid and if not then it is convertible into equity ie: Government increases existing stake. Also dividend payments are prohibited until debt is repaid.
MCDU2 is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2020, 14:22
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
Branson might be have a few problem coming his way, as his cruise line has also been dry docked due corona. Interesting to see what kind of cash burn rate a brand new cruise line could sustain along with the airline. Probably 2 of the hardest hit sectors.
Don't be surprised if you never see that ship sail - in Virgin colours at least... it's sale value of around $850m must be quite appealing right now to RB, although the problem will be finding someone to buy it.
ImPlaneCrazy is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2020, 15:12
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Leeds
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If the current mess of a customer service experience they have created from the current situation is anything to go by, they won't be around for a great deal longer
Livesinafield is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2020, 16:29
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: neither here nor there
Posts: 136
You know when you read a lot of these posts it’s almost as if you want people to lose their jobs. Shame on all of you.


Lionel Lion is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2020, 18:50
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Far East
Posts: 81
Angry

I think Tax paying public are fed up with getting screwed over by big business.
Every 10 yrs or so they foot the bill to save these game players who irresponsibly over inflate values of companies, banks , markets etc etc and then suffer subsequent decades of austerity , reduced public service and transport standards , curtailed health benefits , reduced infrastructure etc etc . Meanwhile the top 1% get richer ....
This time I hope businesses go bust , downsizing occurs in banking sectors and there needs to be meaningful implementation of fiscal controls to limit ridiculous over valuation of equity markets.
The rich are living well beyond OUR abilities ..... their greed needs to be put in check .... No more paying for this system , it doesnt work for the people .!!!
wisecaptain is offline  

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