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EK17 done two attempts in Manchester- and now off to AMS

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EK17 done two attempts in Manchester- and now off to AMS

Old 10th Feb 2020, 08:15
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Originally Posted by wiggy
You do realise tens of thousands of passengers arrived safely at the likes of LHR, LGW, CDG etc etc today?
The smaller jets, 737/A32x etc seemed to be getting in at LGW. It was the widebodies that were doing GAs. Most giving it up at around 5 miles rather than short finals.

I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 08:19
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For that particular 777 and any with the same logo technically after initiation of the flare it is not a go around but a rejected landing.
The manoeuvre is SOP and a professional response if certain laid down Pre briefed criteria are not met.
just for clarification.
Well done to the crew.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 08:41
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Originally Posted by Airbanda
The smaller jets, 737/A32x etc seemed to be getting in at LGW. It was the widebodies that were doing GAs. Most giving it up at around 5 miles rather than short finals.

I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.
Yes, exactly what I would like to know. Are the heavies more trickier in windy conditions?
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 08:44
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One of the downsides of long term UK aviation policy (yes, yes, what policy .... ?) has been the progressive elimination of cross runways. Heathrow got rid of theirs, Edinburgh recently likewise, there are hardly any left. The majority are down to prevailing west-facing. That means when storms are perpendicular, such as yesterday's which was from the south, the old options have gone. Meanwhile Amsterdam, a range facing different directions, rolls along much better.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 08:47
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Originally Posted by CYTN
Is it me seeing things but in that video above the tip of the 380 right wing looks to be missing after it passes the trees.
Anyone else think that ?
Unsurprisingly, no.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 09:38
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Originally Posted by WHBM
One of the downsides of long term UK aviation policy (yes, yes, what policy .... ?) has been the progressive elimination of cross runways. Heathrow got rid of theirs, Edinburgh recently likewise, there are hardly any left. The majority are down to prevailing west-facing. That means when storms are perpendicular, such as yesterday's which was from the south, the old options have gone. Meanwhile Amsterdam, a range facing different directions, rolls along much better.
Edinburgh's now closed second runway (30/12) was well off the prevailing winds and yesterdays wind there was mostly within 20 degrees of the current runway (24)

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Old 10th Feb 2020, 09:50
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I remember landing on Rwy 23 at LHR. Probably one of only two instances of severe turbulence I've experienced in 25 years. The aircraft was shaking so violently I couldn't read the instruments!

But it was a pain as there was no ILS on to 23 and you had to do an SRA approach which isn't something we did very often and the only time you did one was in the middle of a storm.

Plus when using 23 LHR had to clear a load of aircraft from T4 stands so it wasn't a 2 second job to get it up and running either.. They had handily painted "LHR" onto the back of the gas tank on long finals though so you knew you were in the right place
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 09:58
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They had handily painted "LHR" onto the back of the gas tank on long finals
Pretty sure it's still there (or at least was fairly recently) on the gasometer in Southall. Easily viewable from trains on the Great Western mainline.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 09:58
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Amusingly it's still there.... This is from Google earth, and you can still see the remnants of Runway 23 at LHR...




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Old 10th Feb 2020, 10:12
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I think the LH gasometer has been demolished, or will be shortly.

There used to be a similar one in in South Harrow with NO lettering. The lettering was added following a number of incidents where aircraft mistook Northolt's runway for 23.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 10:18
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Originally Posted by maxxer
But this storm was coming for awhile and even Netherlands is code orange so alternative would be lower to belgium or france even
I was in Luxembourg last night where a code red had been issued early afternoon

The weather event was widespread.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 11:42
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Originally Posted by groundfine
I think Man is 06/24 so down the runway but too gusty for maintaining stable speed below 1000 feet. Would have thought that a heavy plane like A380 more speed stable than smaller ones. Did anyone get into MAN around that period?
It my experience that in these kinds of winds you are likely to get a onboard wind shear alert. At my company and airbus recommends a mandatory go around when that happens.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 12:03
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How do you recommend a mandatory go around ?
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 12:29
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Originally Posted by Dave Gittins
How do you recommend a mandatory go around ?
If you're an operator, you can make it mandatory in your FCOM.

If you're a manufacturer, you can recommend that operators do so.

HTH
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 12:34
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Anticipating fun and games I was watching flight radar yesterday, there were plenty of go rounds at MAN, after EK15 turned away the second time I did look at conditions reported on flight radar at other airports and they did not look good, LHR was reported at 35 kts at that time. If I had a loaded 380 and fuel to get to a safe airport I would have done the same, he was holding and approaching MAN for over 2 hours before he gave up.

Hats off to all flying and controlling yesterday, a job well done !.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 12:39
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Originally Posted by Airbanda
The smaller jets, 737/A32x etc seemed to be getting in at LGW. It was the widebodies that were doing GAs. Most giving it up at around 5 miles rather than short finals.

I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.
Onboard wind shear alert.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 12:40
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Originally Posted by Dave Gittins
How do you recommend a mandatory go around ?
Airbus recommends, itís up to the operator if they want to make it mandatory.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 12:43
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Just a bit of gramatical confusion
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 12:49
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Probably better if they mandated their recommendation for a go around.
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Old 10th Feb 2020, 15:31
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Originally Posted by Airbanda
I've posted a question as to what factors might be present at 5 miles that made approach nonviable. Assume it's to do with stability or reported winds but as a non pilot I'm curious.
5 miles is about where you cross 1300 ft, at which point the predictive windshear alerts are presented to the crew on most types. On most types I flew, predictive windshear system is activated below 2700 ft, but does not trigger any alert until the aircraft flies below 1300.
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