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Who still operates the B767?

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Who still operates the B767?

Old 4th Feb 2020, 12:00
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Who still operates the B767?

There are not many major operators left with 767 on a scheduled long haul services. I thought AC got rid of them long ago..
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 12:37
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
There are not many major operators left with 767 on a scheduled long haul services. I thought AC got rid of them long ago..
Between AC mainline and Rouge they have 30 763ER's and they could not be happier with them.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 12:40
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There are not many major operators left with 767 on a scheduled long haul services. I thought AC got rid of them long ago.
There are a lot in use by the US main carriers Delta, United etc.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 14:37
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
There are not many major operators left with 767 on a scheduled long haul services. I thought AC got rid of them long ago..
Condor in Germany operates 16 on long haul routes...
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 15:02
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Originally Posted by foxcharliep2 View Post
Condor in Germany operates 16 on long haul routes...
I know, but they are the only one in Europe and then another four in North America and one in South America. I guess that falls into “not many” pretty well.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 15:08
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Originally Posted by admiral ackbar View Post
Between AC mainline and Rouge they have 30 763ER's and they could not be happier with them.
Last time I looked they had about half a dozen of them left at mainline, running them on thin routes like YUL-FRA. All of them were 29-31 years old. From what I read, they were due to be replaced by A330 last fall but it seems the phase out is dragging on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada#Current_fleet
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 16:56
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Originally Posted by BRE View Post
Last time I looked they had about half a dozen of them left at mainline, running them on thin routes like YUL-FRA. All of them were 29-31 years old. From what I read, they were due to be replaced by A330 last fall but it seems the phase out is dragging on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Canada#Current_fleet
They can't find anything currently available that generates the bucket loads of money these paid off 333s and 763s generate. The MAX situation exarcebates this for AC as well.

Rouge (which is the same thing as AC regardless of what the marketing department says) has 25 of them with no replacement in sight.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 18:43
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
I know, but they are the only one in Europe and then another four in North America and one in South America. I guess that falls into “not many” pretty well.
Lets see, Air Canada has 30, Delta 77, United 54, JAL 35. Worldwide over 400 767s are still operating as passenger aircraft (over 700 if you add in the freighters). You have a strange definition of "not many"...
As Admiral notes, airlines like them - they don't take a whole lot of maintenance and make lots of money. Quite a few of the passenger 767s out there have over 100k flight hours and are still going strong.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 19:36
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Lets see, Air Canada has 30, Delta 77, United 54, JAL 35. Worldwide over 400 767s are still operating as passenger aircraft (over 700 if you add in the freighters). You have a strange definition of "not many"...
As Admiral notes, airlines like them - they don't take a whole lot of maintenance and make lots of money. Quite a few of the passenger 767s out there have over 100k flight hours and are still going strong.
just read carefully what I’ve said in the beginning - major airline long haul scheduled service. This removes all Rouge fleet, significant part of US majors 767 fleet is not operated on long haul, same with JAL. Condor is not a major airline. So not too many left after all.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 20:57
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
just read carefully what I’ve said in the beginning - major airline long haul scheduled service. This removes all Rouge fleet, significant part of US majors 767 fleet is not operated on long haul, same with JAL. Condor is not a major airline. So not too many left after all.
Strange definition ... with 700+ 767's around.
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 21:22
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Originally Posted by CargoOne View Post
just read carefully what I’ve said in the beginning - major airline long haul scheduled service. This removes all Rouge fleet, significant part of US majors 767 fleet is not operated on long haul, same with JAL. Condor is not a major airline. So not too many left after all.
The overwhelming majority of Delta, and United, and American's 767s fly intercontinental - mainly US/Europe and US/Asia - relatively few fly domestic Most people would call that "long haul".
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Old 4th Feb 2020, 23:35
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Re AirCanada Rouge, I imagine some would call some of their destinations "long haul". The following points are served from Canada
  • Central America (Panama City, Liberia, San Jose, San Salvador, Belize City)
  • South America (Cartagena, Bogota, Lima, Quito)
  • Europe (Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Nice, Marseilles, Berlin, Warsaw, Prague, Venice, Barcelona, Porto, Lisbon, Athens, Budapest, Zagreb, Bucharest)
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 07:40
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Originally Posted by tdracer View Post
Lets see, Air Canada has 30, Delta 77, United 54, JAL 35. Worldwide over 400 767s are still operating as passenger aircraft (over 700 if you add in the freighters). You have a strange definition of "not many"...
As Admiral notes, airlines like them - they don't take a whole lot of maintenance and make lots of money. Quite a few of the passenger 767s out there have over 100k flight hours and are still going strong.
Yes, there are close to no capital costs, but isn't that more than made up by higher fuel and maintenance cost? Don't the checks cost a lot of time and money once the planes are 30 years old and have 80k+ cycles?

I mean, there must be a reason that solid airlines phase their planes out once they reach about 15 years.

And the main reason, apparently, that Lufthansa and a bunch of others passed up on Condor was exactly that their fleet was very old and in dire need of replacement.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 07:47
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Lets see, Air Canada has 30,
According to information I see, Air Canada has 5 767 (C-FOCA, C-FPCA, C-FTCA, C-GHOZ & C-GCA)
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 07:57
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Originally Posted by KelvinD View Post
According to information I see, Air Canada has 5 767 (C-FOCA, C-FPCA, C-FTCA, C-GHOZ & C-GLCA)
Plus 25 with ACA's wholly-owned subsidiary, Air Canada Rouge, so 30 in total.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 08:23
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Dave: Yes, I acknowledge that Rouge have theirs but arguments earlier in the thread were discounting Rouge so I took the same view.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 10:02
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Originally Posted by BRE View Post
Yes, there are close to no capital costs, but isn't that more than made up by higher fuel and maintenance cost? Don't the checks cost a lot of time and money once the planes are 30 years old and have 80k+ cycles?

I mean, there must be a reason that solid airlines phase their planes out once they reach about 15 years.

And the main reason, apparently, that Lufthansa and a bunch of others passed up on Condor was exactly that their fleet was very old and in dire need of replacement.
BA are operating 747-400s and 777-200s from the late 1990s and they make bucketfuls of cash, despite (especially in the case of the former) their relative inefficency. A properly maintained, bought and paid for 20+ year 747 can still be a money making machine if operated within the right route/marketing/sales strategy.

Even LH are still operating 343 from 1998-2001.
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 10:40
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Condor still have a large fleet of 17 in mainline long haul use, and Austrian also still uses 6 (ex Lauda)

TUI UK (ex Air 2000 and Thomson machines) and TUI Europe/Nordic have some, as does ex TUI partner Neos Air in Italy who have 3.

EuroAtlantic and Titan still use 767 for ACMI work
Icelandair has a couple, as does RAM
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 11:37
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This should keep you busy looking at who has what.

https://www.planespotters.net/operators/Boeing/767
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Old 5th Feb 2020, 12:49
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Originally Posted by Lord Bracken View Post
Even LH are still operating 343 from 1998-2001.
Yes, but 343, 346, 744 are all on their way out, phase out having been delayed by availabilit of the A350-900, 787-900 and 777-900.

Frankly, I never understood why they gobbled up 343 after the bust in 2008/09 and kept adding 346, when there were better alternatives (newer versions of A330-300 and B777). They may have been cheap and available, but commonality would not have ruled out getting more A330 in the mix. Their business model used to be to have a young fleet throughout,.
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