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Aer lingus “near miss” with Emirates A380

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Aer lingus “near miss” with Emirates A380

Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:49
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Aer lingus “near miss” with Emirates A380

Aer Lingus EI-EDP “near miss” with Emirates A380

obviously hard to tell but that doesn’t look like 1000ft

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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:52
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Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post
Aer Lingus EI-EDP “near miss” with Emirates A380

obviously hard to tell but that doesn’t look like 1000ft

https://twitter.com/snappercherry/st...686361600?s=21
never mind fr24 confirmed 1000ft separation
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 16:53
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Looks like 1000ft to me...

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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 17:59
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CAP A330, a 1000ft isn't all that much really and it can look quite alarming in those kind of encounters, and especially when a "Heavy" is involved. My personal best example was in a relatively small Gulfstream 1 over Daventry when a British Airways B747 passed 1000ft below in the turn (he was holding over DTY. It looked bloody close but separation was not compromised.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 18:01
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Is 1000ft for a Superheavy enough? https://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 18:12
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Originally Posted by MartinAOA View Post
Is 1000ft for a Superheavy enough? https://avherald.com/h?article=4a5e80f3
Yes. Normal RVSm.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 18:13
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Yes, looks like 1000’.
nothing to see here
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 18:46
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Originally Posted by CAP A330 View Post
Aer Lingus EI-EDP “near miss” with Emirates A380

obviously hard to tell but that doesn’t look like 1000ft
To me that looks similar if not smaller than a 737 at 1500ft, which I see regularly out of my window. An A380 is much much much bigger than a 737, so logically is further away.

Yes, obviously hard to tell, but I would say much more than 1000ft.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 19:24
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I never forget as a young new ATCO Cadet talking about vertical separation on my first tower OJTI my mentor pointed out that if you imagined the length of the runway vertically how many aircraft could be in that space, the runway was just over 8000ft!!! brings it in to perspective!!!
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 19:41
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10 DME, that was one of my instructional points too.
Also, 1,000 feet is about 2 Blackpool Towers.

CAP A330, the video looks O.K. to me.
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Old 3rd Mar 2019, 21:47
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Relative to Air-frame.

I always think that it's easier to visualise the lack of height a.g.l., when aircraft have impacted the ground after an upset has left them with a high bank angle and low airspeed, if you relate to the air-frame size, rather than the arbitrary figures of measurement. We had a fatality which sounded like there was a fair bit of of height, in figures, to recover from a stall, but it was actually only five wingspans and didn't pull out. 1000' separation is only about four wingspans of an A380.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 00:03
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Solo student In a T-38 round robin from Moody AFB, Georgia. First exposure to anything other than local control. “Atlanta Center, Atlanta Center an aircraft just passed over the top of me.” Atlanta Center: “Roger Fuzzy 23, that airliner was 2000 feet above you.” Fuzzy 23: “ well don’t you think that was pretty close”
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 01:16
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What an absolute, complete and utter load of nonsensical garbage!!!

Let me fix that headline for you.....

"Standard separation applied between two aircraft who happen to be in the same piece of controlled airspace at the same time.

Not quite so dramatic, huh.....

Idiots.



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Old 4th Mar 2019, 06:53
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Full marks Atlas Shrugged,
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 07:03
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I don't know which is more hilarious: the fact that media outlets (RTE, the Sun, etc) are scrabbling for the rights to the video, or that the author has already licensed it to a news agency in the hope of making lots of money from it.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 07:26
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(good move mods!)

It's easy to forget how rarely a passenger in the back with a pokey little sideways facing window ever sees another aircraft; so when they do it's a big deal and they have no experience to judge distance. When I first sat in the front, I was surprised how totally different the view was and how many other aircraft (and bl**dy big birds) were hurtling by all over the place.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 08:25
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I recall seeing a 737 zot over the top on the way to Edinburgh - it seemed like it almost parted our hair but looking at the trail I decided it was several thousand feet higher probably about 5000...

Was quite surprised to see a small vapour trail pass a thousand feet or so underneath while over Canada en route San Francisco and identified the perpetrator as a Aero Commander of one sort or another. Would have thought he was well over 30000', didn't know they could get that high. These days would have replayed FR24!
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 12:27
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I don't think that outbursts such as that from Atlas Shrugged is necessary or particularly helpful! Whilst factually correct it doesn't detract from the fact that, like it or not, it can look uncomfortably close to those who are less knowledgeable about these things. Going back to my example above, being in ATC, I was under no doubt whatsoever that standard separation was maintained. However, even I was surprised at the visually perceived proximity of the other traffic, a Boeing 747.
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Old 4th Mar 2019, 17:35
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HT: Outburst required or not, also saying "near miss" when dealing with two professional flight crews is not necessary. My immediate reaction to seeing my doctor or lawyer do something I don't know about is not to label him or her with a term that implies professional misconduct, yet that is what happens daily with our profession.

People seem to think that humans have this fantastic, top of the food chain ability, to see distance. Quite the opposite. Depending upon innumerable factors, the average human can accurately judge distance from a minimum of about 10m to a maximum of just over 200m. Beyond that distance, we have to use learned cues to guess. That's one reason the moon looks bigger when closer to the horizon. Its average arc has not changed when its higher in the sky, but our known visual cues have disappeared. Much the same, you can't accurately tell separation between two aircraft until they're nearer to 500 to 600 ft apart (and even then that's assuming you have another valid reference point). That's why we're all surprised to see these images as, without other visual cues, it looks closer than it should. Put these two aircraft in the same position over downtown London, and it's a very different story. In other words, it doesn't look like 1,000 feet because you can't judge that distance with the given cues.

I too find it ludicrous that someone would imply this level of professional misconduct just because they don't know something. Ask the question, for sure, but as my wife tells me all the time - it's not what you say, its how you say it.
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Old 5th Mar 2019, 00:54
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OK, I'll retract the first line and the word "idiots"....... reluctantly.

My point is that the ability of the mainstream news to pick the difference between real events, and trivia, is pretty limited.

If you take the go around as classic example, both the public and media have the entire concept reversed from reality. As a part of aviation, they are a non event. Push the power up, and you've simply converted the approach into that part of flight that happens just after take off. They are not dangerous, nor are they in any way reportable. But, you have to remember why a go around is being done. They always happen because the option to continue has expired and they are always the safest choice. They always feel much more violent than they are because they almost always happens after a period of low power, and nose attitude. Perception. Read the average newspapers' description of any passenger talking about a go around...it always sounds like they were in an F18, yet the exact same performance an hour earlier at take off gets no comment, because it was expected.

Another example, according to the media, 'air pockets' have aircraft falling thousands of feet as a matter of course, the reality is that there's no such thing as an air pocket. Aircraft, even in severe turbulence rarely deviate more that a few feet from their initial positions. It's all about perceptions.

Perception IS NOT reality.

It is almost impossible to judge a flight, or a pilot, from aft of the cabin door. You have virtually no information, and have no idea of what he/she is seeing or dealing with. When I pax, I probably notice the movement, and hear the noises, but as I understand what they are, I take little notice, likewise with the media.... I know what they are, but take little if any notice.

Your Welcome.
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