Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner) If you're not a professional pilot but want to discuss issues about the job, this is the best place to loiter. You won't be moved on by 'security' and there'll be plenty of experts to answer any questions.

Ukraine - old aircraft

Old 5th Jul 2018, 19:58
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,505
Ukraine - old aircraft

There is an article on ch-aviation.com saying Ukraine is thinking of passing a law around the age of aircraft next year. Does anyone know more about what the aim of this is or what is planned to be in the new law ?

I am guessing it is to discourage some smaller Ukrainian airline (cough Motor cough Sich cough) from using aircraft over maybe 25 years old on standard passenger flights and hopefully move away from aircraft built under the Soviet era. Presumably this also means those of us who want to catch a ride on a Yak-40 will now have to make our way to Zaporizhiya sooner rather than later
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 20:14
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,253
Well I hope it won't mean the end of the AN-12 freighters. They are just about the only heavy prop excitement left in Europe these days. Just saw one depart my local airport a half hour or so ago. Great stuff!
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2018, 21:08
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 9,801
Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
There is an article on ch-aviation.com saying Ukraine is thinking of passing a law around the age of aircraft next year. Does anyone know more about what the aim of this is or what is planned to be in the new law ?

I am guessing it is to discourage some smaller Ukrainian airline (cough Motor cough Sich cough) from using aircraft over maybe 25 years old on standard passenger flights
Hmmm. Just as well BA doesn't use its 28-year-old B744s on Heathrow/Kiev.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2018, 15:41
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: same planet as yours
Posts: 236
An maybe they can put a 50 year limit on their freighters. 55 y.o. UR-CZZ just overflew me at fl240 producing a heck of a noise. Prop sync u/s probably
DIBO is offline  
Old 7th Jul 2018, 13:34
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW England / Ukraine
Age: 47
Posts: 36
As my wife is from Ukraine I've been interested in this and from what I can find out the Ukrainian government are planning a maximum age of twenty years for all jet powered passenger aircraft, this is mainly due to the number of incidents with older aircraft, I believe the recent incident with Bravo airways MD-83 at Zhulyani and the constant delay after delay due to the maintenance issues on older aircraft is causing the government to take action. As far as I can find out freight aircraft and prop passenger aircraft will not be part of the age limit, but this is likely to change in due course. This is likely to see the demise of one or two Ukrainian airlines who only use older aircraft. A family friend told me that Motor Sich are looking to replace some aircraft with modern aircraft in the next couple of years.
Mallorcaguy is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2018, 07:12
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fife
Posts: 225
Having played around with the Motor Sich website, I cant see any scheduled flight listings using the Yak-40s. Can someone on here please advise why ie. are they used for charter traffic only? Its a type which still eludes me.

Cheers

Cooch
Coochycool is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2018, 07:22
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 9,801
They seems to be used mostly on services to Minsk and Kiev, albeit irregularly along with their Antonov types.

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ur-msx

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/ur-88310
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2018, 09:39
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fife
Posts: 225
Much obliged Dave. Great looking jets.

Cooch
Coochycool is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2018, 18:05
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW England / Ukraine
Age: 47
Posts: 36
A new start up airline Dream Wind has registered two Boeing 737- 300 on the Ukrainian registry, the first UR-CRL (first registered in 1990) and UR-CRM (first registered in 1991). I personally cannot understand why anyone would register old aircraft when the minister of infrastructure announced on Thursday that all passenger jet aircraft over twenty years will be removed from the Ukraine register before the start of 2019. I am reliably informed that the Yak-40's of Motor Sich airlines are to be donated to museums in Ukraine.
Almost all Ukrainian airlines will have to remove some aircraft from their fleets when the new law comes into effect including UIA and Wind Rose.
Mallorcaguy is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2018, 18:21
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Москва/Ташкент
Age: 49
Posts: 776
I personally cannot understand why anyone would register old aircraft when the minister of infrastructure announced on Thursday that all passenger jet aircraft over twenty years will be removed from the Ukraine register before the start of 2019.
Nothing in Ukraine is as it seems. Had plenty of experience there and I strongly suspect enforcement will be another matter, that is nothing will be done, just another charade... Russia did similar... or at least on paper... never went anywhere. So, believe it when I see it You are there (from your location details) so I am sure you know how things work!
flash8 is online now  
Old 23rd Jul 2018, 11:40
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: NW England / Ukraine
Age: 47
Posts: 36
Hi flash8, I know what you mean, I too doubt anything will happen I think it's just another load of rubbish that the government are saying to make themselves look good for the elections next year, hence the reason airlines are registering old aircraft because they know nothing will happen. Time will tell but I can't see this new law coming into force.
Mallorcaguy is offline  
Old 25th Jul 2018, 14:39
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Al tube.
Posts: 419
I think South Korea did similar a few years ago with a twenty year old age limit for passenger aircraft but there are still aircraft over the age limit still flying there.
Alloy is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 00:58
  #13 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 3,505
Somewhat amusingly, Somalia has decided to ban Antonov props which are still operated in commercial passenger service by Motor Sich in Ukraine
https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/n...nov-turboprops
An-24 aircraft with reg UR-47297 (first flew in 1971 !) operated 4 sectors yesterday between Odessa and Kiev
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 02:50
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 66
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by Hotel Tango View Post
Well I hope it won't mean the end of the AN-12 freighters. They are just about the only heavy prop excitement left in Europe these days. Just saw one depart my local airport a half hour or so ago. Great stuff!
AN-12? A half hour?

You'd still be able to see it then.
WingNut60 is online now  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 02:52
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Balikpapan, INDONESIA
Age: 66
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by Alloy View Post
I think South Korea did similar a few years ago with a twenty year old age limit for passenger aircraft but there are still aircraft over the age limit still flying there.
Indonesia did similar after one of it's more notorious accidents. Maybe Adam Air?
They put a 10 year limit for import and registration.
WingNut60 is online now  
Old 19th Mar 2019, 08:49
  #16 (permalink)  
Gnome de PPRuNe
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 55
Posts: 5,235
Originally Posted by WingNut60 View Post
AN-12? A half hour?

You'd still be able to see it then.
Well, the clouds of smoke in its wake!
treadigraph is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 04:14
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Siargao Island
Posts: 871
I've flown with Motor Sich,in the distant past, a few times both on AN24 and AN140, indeed I've flown on many an AN24 around Ukraine as well as a Dneproavia Yak42 and some other outfit's TU134, apparently a problem with the AN24 is that it doesn't perform on one engine.

Zaporozhye (OZH) airport was a dump, the domestic terminal being a corrugated tin shack, the toilet being a bucket behind a curtain, and on new year's day morning was none too warm whilst our AN24 flight was delayed for a few hours due to fog in Kiev ... And retiring to the international terminal wasn't much better, delapidated cinema seating with tumbleweed blowing around outside not tomention the stray dogs.

Even the AN140 flight KBP/OZH was delayed whilst one girl had a boarding pass for seat 1A but because there is a cargo door there are no seats 1A&B, we landed in a raging snowstorm in OZH

As fot the Yak42 KBP/DNK, my god it was primitive, cabin crew came round with a kettle of water and one made their own cup of tea, it was Christmas and I'd been on the Slavutich most of the day, one needed to be p1ssed to fly on the thing
Harry Wayfarers is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 10:35
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Europe
Posts: 3,253
Oh, great stuff Harry. You've now given MOL some more ideas on how to enhance the Ryanair experience!
Hotel Tango is offline  
Old 20th Mar 2019, 11:18
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Siargao Island
Posts: 871
I loved flying with Ukraine International LGW/KBP/LGW, often out of LGW I would get an upgrade to business class as I worked for UIA's LGW line maintenance provider.

But even in economy when they came round with the trolley offering me Carlsberg or Heineken I would ask for Slavutych ... "You want Ukrainian beer sir?" ... "Yes please, can I have 2?" ... "No problem sir" ... I wasn't stupid, Carlsberg and Heineken came in 330ml cans, Slavutych came in 500ml cans and the crew would be so complimented that I liked Ukrainian beer I could go to the galley and ask for more and more
Harry Wayfarers is offline  
Old 7th Apr 2019, 21:03
  #20 (permalink)  
MHG
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: near Heidelberg, Germany
Age: 53
Posts: 12
Unfortunately a great deal of operators that flew with AN-24/YAK-40/etc. in the post Soviet era lacked the will/capabilty/financial means to do proper maintenance and operations.
That lead inevitably to accidents/crashes and ultimately to the bad reputation of Soviet/Russian/Ukrainian/etc. built aircraft.

I´ve flown a few times with Motor Sich and I am not scared by the age of their aircraft.
It is true they are old aircraft - but they are well kept with - apparently - proper maintenance and well trained crews.
There´s no secret that the AN-24 is not exactly a "single engine performer" but aside fom that I don´t see any serious deficiencies that would make it unsafe.

UIA is just sort of a Ukrainian Ryanair in different colours - not really appealing.
I have already switched to Wizzair for my travels to Ukraine - not less but for the convenient location of IEV compared to KBP.
MHG is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.