AF66 CDG-LAX diverts - uncontained engine failure over Atlantic

[ConnieLover]

Pardon the questions from a SLF, but no one has addressed them.

How will anyone be able to work on this huge aircraft outside with no proper facilities -- shelter, lights, electricity, compressed air, and specialized tools, some of which have to be tied in to systems that do not exist in Goose Bay?

And -- it has been said upthread that the wing was damaged during the incident. How did anyone know that that had happened? And how will a anyone be able to determine the full extent of that damage when this huge aircraft is sitting outside with no proper facilities for inspection and work?

Thanks for any info anyone can give.

[Espada III]

If you look at the thread about the Swiss 777 which had an engine failure over Canada earlier in the year, all will be revealed.

[spannersatcx]

Hangars are for wimps!
Portable inflatable shelter/igloo can be used, generator for electrics and lights and a compressor for air!
It won't be the first time an engine has been replaced in the middle of nowhere with no facilities! It's what we do.

As for the wing, not sure what the damage is, I'm sure some sheet metal experts will deal with it.

[TURIN]

And -- it has been said upthread that the wing was damaged during the incident. How did anyone know that that had happened? And how will a anyone be able to determine the full extent of that damage when this huge aircraft is sitting outside with no proper facilities for inspection and work?

Mark 1 Eyeball is probably how they found the initial damage.

Further detailed inspections will reveal what type of repair is required. This may involve some NDT work (Ultra sound, X-Ray etc) which will require specialist equipment and inspectors.

[oleary]

Originally Posted by ConnieLover

Pardon the questions from a SLF, but no one has addressed them.

How will anyone be able to work on this huge aircraft outside with no proper facilities -- shelter, lights, electricity, compressed air, and specialized tools, some of which have to be tied in to systems that do not exist in Goose Bay?

We Canadians have been operating large aircraft year round in the Arctic for the past 100 years. As previously mentioned, you just need the right kit.

The Russians are pretty good at it too. And the Norwegians, ... and Swedes.

[Webby737]

Originally Posted by TURIN

Mark 1 Eyeball is probably how they found the initial damage.

Further detailed inspections will reveal what type of repair is required. This may involve some NDT work (Ultra sound, X-Ray etc) which will require specialist equipment and inspectors.

Assuming that the wing and pylon are similar to other Airbus aircraft (which I'm pretty sure they are) there's no doubt that some NDT inspections would be required, probably Ultrasound and Eddy Current, this is fairly straightforward using nice battery powered portable equipment. Although some of the pylon attachment fittings extend up into the wing so would require tank access, they may get away without defueling the aircraft if there's not too much fuel left in there by transferring everything into the centre tank.

[ExXB]

They were slightly less than half way, as the goose flies.

CDG YYR 2,664 mi
YYR LAX 3,097 mi

[atakacs]

I seem to remember they dumped fuel?

[Torquelink]

How will anyone be able to work on this huge aircraft outside with no proper facilities -- shelter, lights, electricity, compressed air, and specialized tools, some of which have to be tied in to systems that do not exist in Goose Bay?

And -- it has been said upthread that the wing was damaged during the incident. How did anyone know that that had happened? And how will a anyone be able to determine the full extent of that damage when this huge aircraft is sitting outside with no proper facilities for inspection and work?

The aircraft forward fuselage and wings will fit in the hangar. The tail will remain outside and temporary shuttering will seal the gap between the hangar doors and the fuselage. Other than the repairing any (minor) damage to the underside of the tail, all work will take place in the relative comfort of the hangar.

[NWA SLF]

Does this mean nothing has been done to get this plane back flying? Being a large revenue stream for AF, I expected replacing the engine, pylon, and repair wing damage to the point it could be ferried back to Europe to have happened by now, unless the damage to the wing is more extensive than reports indicated. I do realize that spare pylons for #4 engine are not sitting around in parts storage; however, having been involved in producing large equipment my entire career, getting a customer's disabled machine back operating and generating revenue took precedence over nearly everything.

[knarfw]

There are currently no spare engines. Earliest they are expecting one to be available is around 25 November.

[WHBM]

Spare pylon shortage I could maybe imagine, they are not normally required. No spare engines for replacement however is a bit of an indictment of EA, given the fleet size of the A380/EA installed base. That's two months since the loss.

[pax2908]

Originally Posted by knarfw

There are currently no spare engines. Earliest they are expecting one to be available is around 25 November.

Does this imply everything else has been done, including the accident engine completely removed and sent to where it was needed; inspections and other repairs (if needed) done?

And out of curiosity, the 3-engine ferry with #4 completely missing, is this mostly a (big) "paperwork" problem OR there are difficult structural and/or balance issues?

[Torquelink]

The damaged engine has been preserved and will be shipped to GE Cardiff on the same aircraft which will bring its replacement. The temporary repair work will commence once the aircraft is hangared.

[pax2908]

Interesting, thank you!

Would it be excessive speculation to say that, since shipping the damaged engine "can wait", it means that essential information (re. what caused the failure) is NOT expected to be found inside ... meaning that what is known already today, is significant?

[roybert]

Originally Posted by Torquelink

The aircraft forward fuselage and wings will fit in the hangar. The tail will remain outside and temporary shuttering will seal the gap between the hangar doors and the fuselage. Other than the repairing any (minor) damage to the underside of the tail, all work will take place in the relative comfort of the hangar.

Torquelink
Which hangar are you referring to at Goosebay. Last time I was there they didn't have a hangar tall enough to fit an A380?

[Torquelink]

Roybert,

I'm told it's a hangar that used to be used by the German Air Force? Just wide enough for the wings and high enough for the forward fuselage but the tail will stay out in the weather.

Pax2908

I don't know what progress has been made iro the investigation - it could be, of course, that some of the damaged engine parts have already been removed for examination by the investigation team but I don't know I'm afraid.

[knarfw]

Not the German hangar, that was used for fighters. It will be one of the bigger hangars. HistoricPlaces.ca - HistoricPlaces.ca

[infrequentflyer789]

Originally Posted by pax2908

Would it be excessive speculation to say that, since shipping the damaged engine "can wait", it means that essential information (re. what caused the failure) is NOT expected to be found inside ... meaning that what is known already today, is significant?

It may merely mean that the interesting bits (apart from the ones in Greenland), from an investigation point of view, have already been removed from the damaged engine (and shipped elsewhere if necessary) for analysis. Which bit failed first and where is quite possibly obvious just from looking at the damaged engine, (if it isn't obvious from just looking at the photos of it!), the why and how of the failure may take a lot more work, but often won't need all the bits of the engine (anymore than it needs all the aircraft).

I am sure that the remains of the rest of the engine will be very interesting for EA, for all sorts of reasons, but may not add much to the investigation.

[Pilot DAR]

Further detailed inspections will reveal what type of repair is required. This may involve some NDT work (Ultra sound, X-Ray etc) which will require specialist equipment and inspectors.

I would imagine that some of the inspection required to return the aircraft to certified service may be accomplished elsewhere, following a ferry flight. A flight permit (issued in Canada) has the required standard of "safe for flight", which is not the same thing as "conforming to its type design", which would be required for certified commercial service. This is the purpose of a flight permit, which among many other limitations, prohibits carriage of passengers.