AF66 CDG-LAX diverts - uncontained engine failure over Atlantic
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Fan recovery pax recovery!
Landing at Goose was perfect. With a full-blown emergency its called land ASAP in Airbus terms.
AirFrance has looked at this in detail before opening this route.
The way it was handled on the ground was quite elegant.
The diversion perfect.
Now for something more interesting!
Is there any of you that know of the progress of finding the Fan and or the Fan assembly?
According Reuters they are flying in a new engine and ferrying on 3 engines.
A bit odd, but then again I never did much A380 ferry flights.
Any locals have any pictures of were it is parked, is there a hangar big enough to get at least the front and the wing inside?
AirFrance has looked at this in detail before opening this route.
The way it was handled on the ground was quite elegant.
The diversion perfect.
Now for something more interesting!
Is there any of you that know of the progress of finding the Fan and or the Fan assembly?
According Reuters they are flying in a new engine and ferrying on 3 engines.
A bit odd, but then again I never did much A380 ferry flights.
Any locals have any pictures of were it is parked, is there a hangar big enough to get at least the front and the wing inside?
Nexialist
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As a complete non expert, I seriously doubt they would be running the replacement engine. Would make the whole job significantly harder. Given the damage done, to hang an engine you are principally looking at a metal bashing exercise.
To get it to run, you would need to make sure the fuel, hydraulics, air, and electrical/electronics are safe and functional.
This would be a lot more work.
Given that there is a significant amount of damage, it would (I would have thought) be much safer to isolate these supplies, and just use the engine as a known amount of ballast, with known aerodynamic properties.
To get it to run, you would need to make sure the fuel, hydraulics, air, and electrical/electronics are safe and functional.
This would be a lot more work.
Given that there is a significant amount of damage, it would (I would have thought) be much safer to isolate these supplies, and just use the engine as a known amount of ballast, with known aerodynamic properties.
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-a...-idUSKBN1CF2RA
I assume this means it won't be allowed to free-spin either (bad terminology but you know what I mean).
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Does a 3 engine ferry flight imply the A380 is capable of completing the entire flight with both engines inoperative on one side in the event of another engine failure?
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As a complete non expert, I seriously doubt they would be running the replacement engine. Would make the whole job significantly harder. Given the damage done, to hang an engine you are principally looking at a metal bashing exercise.
To get it to run, you would need to make sure the fuel, hydraulics, air, and electrical/electronics are safe and functional.
This would be a lot more work.
Given that there is a significant amount of damage, it would (I would have thought) be much safer to isolate these supplies, and just use the engine as a known amount of ballast, with known aerodynamic properties.
To get it to run, you would need to make sure the fuel, hydraulics, air, and electrical/electronics are safe and functional.
This would be a lot more work.
Given that there is a significant amount of damage, it would (I would have thought) be much safer to isolate these supplies, and just use the engine as a known amount of ballast, with known aerodynamic properties.
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But it's not making the connections that's the issue...it's ensuring they are all fit to do the job they're supposed to. There could have been a lot of collateral damage from that failure, not all of which may be visible.
They have main deck cargo loading equipment there, it would be relatively easy to send a freighter there with new slats, fairings, engine, hoists , manpower etc. Changing an engine can be done in under a day.
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Lifting 5 tonne engine and bolting it to the pylon is a relatively easy job. Connecting "a few tubes and wires" may also be quite easy but you haven't taken into account the subsequent functional tests on those systems, including EGR's.
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I"m not a Pilot but work in Aviation, could Fuel not be used as Ballast on the Damaged Engine side, in other words, an extra 5 tons of Fuel to replicate the Engine Weight. The Ferry Flight is just 2300 Nautical miles so it is not as if it will be Fuelled to the Max. Just a Random thought.
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Providing that the appropriate engine hoists are in place, remember the worldwide DC10 grounding follpwing a seriously fatal accident because operators had been changing engines with fork lifts.
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just some assumptions here based on *nothing whatsoever*
you may not start the newly mounted engine without the paperwork done. you cant get the paperwork done without approved and signed off installation. you cant sign off on the installation without thoroughly checking the wing structures for damage, i.e. mag res imaging. you cant MRI the wing sections with the wing on the plane. you cant remove the wing in the goose bay hangar.....
ferry flight on 3 engines on with 4th under the wing for aerodynamics is the only option.. I suspect it will go straight back to the 'bus farm at LFBO...
for the ferry pilots probably one of the more memorable and interesting entries in their pilot logs.
you may not start the newly mounted engine without the paperwork done. you cant get the paperwork done without approved and signed off installation. you cant sign off on the installation without thoroughly checking the wing structures for damage, i.e. mag res imaging. you cant MRI the wing sections with the wing on the plane. you cant remove the wing in the goose bay hangar.....
ferry flight on 3 engines on with 4th under the wing for aerodynamics is the only option.. I suspect it will go straight back to the 'bus farm at LFBO...
for the ferry pilots probably one of the more memorable and interesting entries in their pilot logs.
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The following is from a captain who flies the A380:
The Air France A380 which suffered an engine failure is to be flown back with only 3 operating engines. Some notes about how that is done..
The operating crew have to have completed a special training course. They also have to complete a simulator session prior to actually conducting a 3-engine ferry flight in order to practice the required handling techniques and operational items. If possible, this simulator detail will match the actual weather conditions, aircraft state, and airports as closely as possible.
One extremely important consideration is the failure of an engine, leaving the A380 powered by only two engines. Therefore, the aircraft weight will be low. Obviously no passengers or freight are allowed!
The inoperative engine must be configured in one of two states. Either windmilling or have had the core removed. Note that the inoperative engine cannot be missing completely. Therefore, in some cases, the previously damaged engine may be removed and replaced by another which is left to windmill rather than supplying power. If an engine is to be allowed to windmill, consideration must be made as to whether the lubrication system is available. If not, maximum flight time is 7 hours.
The route flown must ensure the aircraft is never more than 240 minutes at 2-engine inoperative cruise speed from a suitable airfield.
The takeoff performance application usually used to calculate takeoff data can be run in a special 3-engine ferry flight configuration.
A speed termed Vstop is calculated. This is the speed to which the aircraft can be accelerated with 3 engines operating and still brought to a full stop within the accelerate-stop distance available. At or above Vstop, in the event of an engine failure, the aircraft must continue the takeoff.
Takeoff can be carried out on a dry or wet runway, but not a contaminated one. Maximum crosswind for takeoff is 10 knots. Takeoff configuration is always 1*F.
The engines must not be used to provide bleed air during takeoff.
TOGA (max) thrust on the operating engines must be used for takeoff.
At the start of the takeoff, the aircraft is positioned 5m to the side of the runway centreline on the side of the two operating engines.
There is a set procedure for accelerating the engines in a different way to a normal takeoff due to the thrust asymmetry. This varies depending whether it is an inner or outer engine which is inoperative.
Recommended speeds in flight are 250 knots below 10000 feet (if ATC require this). 300 knots above 10000 feet until Mach 0.79 is reached, then cruise at M0.79. Similar speeds in descent.
The Air France A380 which suffered an engine failure is to be flown back with only 3 operating engines. Some notes about how that is done..
The operating crew have to have completed a special training course. They also have to complete a simulator session prior to actually conducting a 3-engine ferry flight in order to practice the required handling techniques and operational items. If possible, this simulator detail will match the actual weather conditions, aircraft state, and airports as closely as possible.
One extremely important consideration is the failure of an engine, leaving the A380 powered by only two engines. Therefore, the aircraft weight will be low. Obviously no passengers or freight are allowed!
The inoperative engine must be configured in one of two states. Either windmilling or have had the core removed. Note that the inoperative engine cannot be missing completely. Therefore, in some cases, the previously damaged engine may be removed and replaced by another which is left to windmill rather than supplying power. If an engine is to be allowed to windmill, consideration must be made as to whether the lubrication system is available. If not, maximum flight time is 7 hours.
The route flown must ensure the aircraft is never more than 240 minutes at 2-engine inoperative cruise speed from a suitable airfield.
The takeoff performance application usually used to calculate takeoff data can be run in a special 3-engine ferry flight configuration.
A speed termed Vstop is calculated. This is the speed to which the aircraft can be accelerated with 3 engines operating and still brought to a full stop within the accelerate-stop distance available. At or above Vstop, in the event of an engine failure, the aircraft must continue the takeoff.
Takeoff can be carried out on a dry or wet runway, but not a contaminated one. Maximum crosswind for takeoff is 10 knots. Takeoff configuration is always 1*F.
The engines must not be used to provide bleed air during takeoff.
TOGA (max) thrust on the operating engines must be used for takeoff.
At the start of the takeoff, the aircraft is positioned 5m to the side of the runway centreline on the side of the two operating engines.
There is a set procedure for accelerating the engines in a different way to a normal takeoff due to the thrust asymmetry. This varies depending whether it is an inner or outer engine which is inoperative.
Recommended speeds in flight are 250 knots below 10000 feet (if ATC require this). 300 knots above 10000 feet until Mach 0.79 is reached, then cruise at M0.79. Similar speeds in descent.
Music, I believe the term you are looking for is "wind-milling" as in allowing the fan/engine to spin, but with the engine in the off position, ie unpowered. I would think such a massive fan would have to windmill, or the drag would be enormous. Large fans can wind-mill without much fuss.
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David
Sorry David, I have to admit I never did any A380 ferry flights.( Never flew it!)
Have had some fun on empty positioning flights in the past. Lately with OFDM and 9/11 and all I stick to SOP.
Anyway, David, has anyone , but the Airbus Test Pilots simulated OR done 3 engine ferry flights on the A380?
I can not recall having heard of any?
And , Yes You have to account for loosing another on T/O witch will be rather interesting with a loss of nr 3 in this case! I am sure MOT need some accurate test data to let them loose! And not just any Cpt from standby.
Bon Voyage
Have had some fun on empty positioning flights in the past. Lately with OFDM and 9/11 and all I stick to SOP.
Anyway, David, has anyone , but the Airbus Test Pilots simulated OR done 3 engine ferry flights on the A380?
I can not recall having heard of any?
And , Yes You have to account for loosing another on T/O witch will be rather interesting with a loss of nr 3 in this case! I am sure MOT need some accurate test data to let them loose! And not just any Cpt from standby.
Bon Voyage
I take it that the word in the press "ballast" applies to more than just dead-weight balance but also covers the need to balance drag effects within the safe operational capabilities of the takeoff and flight.
I suspect that the pylon is structurally sound (no large rotor seizure effects) and that many of the tubes and wires will not be needed and just be discarded/capped. The complete pylon might be replaced after the ferry flight
I suspect that the pylon is structurally sound (no large rotor seizure effects) and that many of the tubes and wires will not be needed and just be discarded/capped. The complete pylon might be replaced after the ferry flight