Gatwick runway fiasco 17-7-17

[HamishMcBush]

So how come a blown tyre on a depoarting plane can cause so much havoc and can those affected by delays claim compensation?

My younger daughter was in Spain for a week-end to see one of her old schoolfriends. Plane started to board then half way through they were told to get off and go back to the "lounge". Why did the plane whose tyre blew turn round and come back. Wouldn't it have been better to fly to its destination and land much lighter?
Why was the "back-up" runway not available immediately? And why when it was used, was it found to be so unserviceable that it had to be closed for urgent repairs just a few minutes after being used? (at least, this is what is being reported in the media)? Why weren't Gatwick Airport able to update their website to give information on delays and expected arrival times?
Daughter arrived safely, nearly 3 1/2 hours late and did not get home until nearly midnight.

It wouldn't be so bad if this were an "isolated incident" but it seems that every air (or rail) journey one of our family take is blighted by someone's inept incompetence causing delays. Nearly stranded in PHL in May when the BA computer system crashed, held for an hour in CDG a couple of weeks ago due to a "security incident" apparenly involving an unclaimed bag on the carousel etc etc.....

[noflynomore]

Can we claim compensation from people who start sentences with "so"?

[renort]

so....
if your daughter was on the aircraft with the blown tyre would you have preferred her to have been ferried across the Atlantic for 7 hours with no real knowledge of the possible damage to the aircraft or losing the ability to hold for a while to figure things out, if the gear didn't drop back down.

The fact that you got to heart of the subject (compensation) by the end of your first sentence tells all. How much are you hoping to claim for this peril you suffered?

[Tom Cundall]

No offense intended...my writing sometimes comes across as a bit condescending. I hope this helps to explain things a bit.


How many fire engines were not already in use? Maybe they didn't have enough spare fire-fighting capacity? Minimum numbers required for Fire Fighting Category ops.

Fly to destination? How much damage was there on the aircraft? Holed fuel tank can be nasty (See Concorde) Where was the nearest suitable airport and the nearest engineering services? How long a runway would they have needed to stop with duff brakes?

Updated delay times...how long does it take to move a 140 ton aircraft? Flat tyre, locked brake, leaking hydraulics, damaged strut... etc. Were there any spares on site? You can get a space-saver tyre from Quickfit to make the aircraft mobile and you could end up causing more damage to the gear strut and truck assembly.

Spare runway? They would have had to close it to get the damaged aircraft across and there were loads of ground staff milling about doing their 'stuff' so quite a hazard. Safer to shut it all down.

Ultimately they all did the right thing, IMHO.

someone's inept incompetence causing delays

I guess this isn't including the Gatwick issues?

Daughter arrived safely

That would be the most important thing.

[Pizzacake]

Are you serious ???

Are you actually suggesting that the safety of 200+ people is less important than your daughter getting home on time??? I think you need to take a few minutes to get things in perspective.

The aircraft has to return as soon as possible to the safest airport to do so, often the one it left, as there may be damage that would manifest itself over the Atlantic etc. As has been pointed out, your perspective on this whole incident would be a lot different if your beloved daughter was on the flight with the issues, you definitely wouldnt want them continuing to destinations.

Easy jet are responsible for keeping their passengers informed first and foremost, likewise gatwicks main concern will be people in their airport. If you where needing to know when to be at the airport to pick your daughter up, may I suggest that it would not have been entirely unreasonable for her, having been informed when her flight was leaving to let you know, maybe by the mircale of a phone or text.

Now while gatwick updating their website is inconvenient, the fact you knew enough to come on here in another feed and moan about this suggests you know enough to source info separately so really shouldn't be moaning.

Really the only person you know of inconvienced here is your daughter, who was 3.5 hours late, this is hardly the end of the world. The fact you are moaning about being delayed by a security alert, in paris, city that's understandably hyper vigilant suggest you literally have no sense of perspective and are either just a troll or the kind person who thinks of every inconvience as an excuse to try and get compo.

If your every journey is blighted by incompetence, maybe, just maybe you should cease travel or consider the common denominator.

[HamishMcBush]

When you don't have much money, when you don't fly very often and an annual journey becomes almost the highlight of your year, it's more than a little annoying and inconvenient if disruption and delays ruin your experience. The one memory I will take from my recent week in PHL is of being "stranded" at the airport on my way home. Instead of the premium treatment I paisd for, and had been looking forweard to for months, I was shoved into cattle class, hours late, arrived at the wrong terminal at LHR and had to trek across the airport to get to my car being further delayed by an incident on the cross-terminal train when the doods closed and jammed someone between them etc etc.

My daughter is still recovering from her delay as she was back at work early the next day and instead of returning early evening got home very late.

Om both occasions no information is provided about claiming compensation, nobody offers a proper apology just mumblings of "sorry". On daughter's delayed flight, the aircraft galley was not working so they were offered complementary cold food (cake slices from what I gather) and cold drinks aftert being held over 3 hours.

I still maintain that LGW should have had the "back-up" runway in a satisfactory condition such that it did not have to be closed for repairs after just a handful of planes had laned on it.

Maybe most of you on here have far more money that my daughter and I, maybe you travel far more often than we do, and are used to delays etc - but I'm not.

Why should I cease travelling? It's one thing that distinguishes us from most animals - our ability to travel and stay somewhere different at will, instead of having to return to a "nest" at night? I love travelling and love to explore new places; I wish I had the money and time to travel very often, however the travel industry does seem to do its utmost to frustrate and annoy me on almost every journey I make !

Am I really living in a fantasy world when I expect planes (and trains) to run to timetables/.schedules that have been constucted by people in far more senior positions that I hold and who are no doubt paid far more than I am, yet who so frequently get it wrong?

[Wolverhampton]

Hamish, you are being unreasonable by thinking that the aviation world revolves around your daughter. It doesn't, get over it. Flights mostly run without incident, on this occasion an incident occurred that required action to be taken for the safety of those on board the aircraft involved. Other passengers were inconvenienced. Move on.

[HZ123]

Anyway what makes matters worse is the Northern reserve runway was / is in a poor condition, as it's use as a major taxiway gives little opportunity for repair / maintenance. Of course there is no need for a second runway!

[Skipness One Echo]

I was told once that the backup runway can't be used immediately as the aircraft on the 140 stands need to be moved off?

[jonkster]

Originally Posted by HamishMcBush

Am I really living in a fantasy world when I expect planes (and trains) to run to timetables/.schedules that have been constucted by people in far more senior positions that I hold and who are no doubt paid far more than I am, yet who so frequently get it wrong?

When I stop and think of the astounding complexity of modern aircraft, the myriad things that have to work for just one aircraft journey from catering, baggage loading , scheduling, maintenance planning, weather reporting, flight planning, customs inspections, crew resourcing, infrastructure management etc etc I personally am stunned it works so very well most of the time. That it runs 24/7/365 worldwide with thousands of movements every hour with amazing safety and high reliability is a tribute to human ingenuity. 3.5 hours late to Spain? May all our problems be first world ones!

[treadigraph]

Originally Posted by jonkster

That it runs 24/7/365 worldwide with thousands of movements every hour with amazing safety and high reliability

I was thinking about that recently - I doubt there many were weeks in the 1970s without the newspapers reporting a fairly major passenger aircraft crash somewhere in the world. Air transport safety now is phenomenally good. I would never complain about a delay for safety reasons, particularly if removing debris from a runway is involved.

After all, a small piece of debris burst a tyre that bought down a Concorde.

[PDR1]

Hamish - what you have failed to recognise is that the majority on here are pilots and airline employees, and a substantial proportion of these feel that in the event of a cancelled flight the passengers should immediately apologise to them for the impertinence of actually booking a ticket with the accompanying expectation that they get off their lazy backsides and provide the contracted service.

This is not true of ALL pilots and airline employees, but there are a substantial number who repeatedly express these sentiments whenever any passenger has the temerity to complain about the consequences of their laziness, incompetence and contempt for their obligations. This proportion are people for whom the only appropriate response would be a return to traditional, proven performance management techniques like public floggings and long terms on chain gangs shovelling excrement to unblock sewers.

Expect no sympathy here - these people lack the character and integrity which might produce it.

PDR

[Captivep]

Obviously, PDR is completely right (just as he was in his thread about his daughter's aborted trip to CERN). All of these nasty people who work for these horrible companies spend their days trying to figure out how to get away with not getting off their "lazy backsides" and actually doing some real work...

And as for their terrible employers; well, it's obvious, isn't it? They just love cancelling flights so that they can go to the expense of refunding passengers AND paying them compensation. Much, much better than running a revenue-generating flight so that the company can actually operate at a profit.

[PDR1]

Good, I'm glad you're finally admitting it openly. It's the first step to growing into a better person...

:0)

PDR

[compton3bravo]

Same old Hamish. Money is more important than life then. Incidents happen, it's life, get over it. You and your daughter are both in one piece, what is more important? No sympathy from me, I have been diverted, spent an uncomfortable night in Amsterdam, due to incidents, cancelled flights etc but still enjoying life. All I can say is poor diddums!
Oh and by the way Hamish you will have had your tea! I

[Out Of Trim]

Hamish,

For a quality engineer, your posts lack any attention to detail; with many typo mistakes. Not much quality from you. Merely a rant!

When the Air Canada Rouge B767 returned, it's tyre-less wheel rim gouged a huge chunk out of the runway surface. Apparently so big you could lie in it! Gatwick Airport could have just left it for your daughter's easyJet flight to encounter later but, of course that would have been unsafe..

There are rules around bringing the back up and shorter Northern runway into use. Therefore, it is not available instantly. Unfortunately, one of the first departures on 08L was a Virgin Atlantic B744 which using higher thrust than normal on a shorter runway blasted and lifted a section of tarmac damaging the back up runway.

Nobody did anything wrong but, delays were inevitable. There were literally thousands of passengers inconvenienced with much longer delays than your precious daughter. In fact she got off lightly! Many flights had to be diverted and hundreds of delayed passengers at Gatwick spent the night in the airport; as all the hotels in the area became fully booked by those delayed. Some travelled as far as Brighton and Eastbourne for accommodation.

Perhaps your time could be better spent campaigning for a proper second runway at Gatwick Airport.

[111KAB]

Originally Posted by HamishMcBush

So how come a blown tyre on a depoarting plane can cause so much havoc and can those affected by delays claim compensation?

261/2004 delay compensation is not relevant to passengers delayed in respect of the Air Canada incident as it is deemed an extraordinary circumstance which is outside the control of other airlines (eg EasyJet). There is, however an argument for saying the Air Canada passengers (and those alone) are entitled to seek 261/2004 delay compensation if they finally reached their destination with a 4 hour+ delay.


I merely state the law and not my opinion of what should occur!

[noflynomore]

There always has to be someone at fault, doesn't there?

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by noflynomore

There always has to be someone at fault, doesn't there?

There is no longer an acceptance that **it happens.

I dread to think how some people would handle a real crisis!

[edi_local]

Amazing though how money, often more than the price of the ticket in the first place, and almost always in excess of any actual financial loss incurred by the passenger, is on peoples minds and somehow makes it all better.