jetairways flight 9w118 contact lost over Germany
fireflybob,
Don't know if the 787/A350 have it, but my last plane, the G6000, coukd display on the map view, either airspace or political boundaries. Also, if on out the cursor on "pen ship", the local comm frequencies were displayed and could be directly tuned.
acctystanley,
Not much, really
Don't know if the 787/A350 have it, but my last plane, the G6000, coukd display on the map view, either airspace or political boundaries. Also, if on out the cursor on "pen ship", the local comm frequencies were displayed and could be directly tuned.
acctystanley,
Not much, really
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Excuse my ignorance but what can these military planes do to protect the passengers??
Not much, really
While its clear that QRA jets will not be able to save the passengers on board a hijacked aircraft, if the hijackers have full control of the flight deck and are intending to crash the aircraft, there are other benefits of having a military aircraft near by.
For the passengers and crew specifically it will provide the comfort of knowing that they are not alone and that someone is aware of their situation and working a solution.
For everybody else (ATC, other aircraft in the vicinity, decision makers) there is the benefits of knowing the hijacked aircraft exact location, speed, heading, altitude and other relevant information that an observant military pilot can provide (number of people in the cockpit, movement in the cabin etc.). Remember that it only requires the transponder to be turned off, for all the civies to lose track of the aircraft (ATC is blind, TCAS does not provide warnings - primary radars (if available) are not precise enough to provide propper seperation to other traffic).
For the people in the probable target building (9-11 scenario) it might be their rescue, if in a country where leadership are willing to make that extreme difficult decision and order the aircraft downed before it reaches its intended target.
Last but not least it will affect the hijackers. They now know that somebody is there to intervene with their plan, and that they might not achieve their objective.
My point was more about the geography... Except for France, Spain, Germany and maybe Italy the timing from contact lost, intercept and action is just on the edge of the impossible. Case in point a few years ago (Feb 2014) the Swiss air force was scolded for not being able to intercept an Ethiopian Airlines aircraft that was hijacked by an apparently mentally unstable pilot (!) to Geneva. Problem is that the plane was only for a few minutes in Swiss airspace, escorted initially by Italian then French fighters. What was the chain of command in this case ?!
I have personally been on QRA missions where the target aircraft was followed by QRA jets from 4 different countries during its flight, with each QRA handing it over to the next QRA at the FIR boundary.
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In the airspace I used to work, there would have been an exclusion zone put around the 'offending' aircraft and the QRA aircraft. In fact the crew commented about potential pull up from the interceptors.
I was surprised to see that the BA flight was allowed to be so close to the action.
I was surprised to see that the BA flight was allowed to be so close to the action.
They knew where the BA flight was and where it would go to. You seem to overestimate the drama factor in that situation. They just checked what's on and verified. Not that rare to happen.
Monitoring 121.5 might still have been helpful.
Monitoring 121.5 might still have been helpful.
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Also goes the other way and I'd bet that Control tried to call them up multiple times on 121.5 with no response before considering to scramble the QRA jets. So my bet is that they did not have a radio set for 121.5, the volume was to low or they just didn't listen for the calls.
Furthermore, if they have been in german airspace before they should have wondered why they did not get handed over to the next frequency for such a long time, and maybe try to establish comms with privius agency, try on 121.5 or look it up in their flight pubs.
As I have found myself sitting in the cockpit multiple times during QRA scrambles towards "non-talkers", I seriously consider this pure airmanship when a crew of two pilots flying straight and level on full automatics at cruise altitude, are able to fly halfway across Europe without noticing that they should be talking to somebody.
Regarding the ethical dilemma of 1 aircraft full of pax VS many more people on the ground, I fully respect the germans with that regard. Main thing is that they have given it some thought before a potential incident takes place and that they have made the decision beforehand. Once the event is underway there won't be enough time to have this kind of debate.
http://www.allthetests.com/quiz31/pi...jpg?1436189258
I also bet that all other NATO contries have procedures in place for such a case, and that if a decision is made to bring down a civilian aircraft, this decision will not be a decision the pilot in the interceptor will have to make. This decision will be made in the highest leadership level.
Furthermore, if they have been in german airspace before they should have wondered why they did not get handed over to the next frequency for such a long time, and maybe try to establish comms with privius agency, try on 121.5 or look it up in their flight pubs.
As I have found myself sitting in the cockpit multiple times during QRA scrambles towards "non-talkers", I seriously consider this pure airmanship when a crew of two pilots flying straight and level on full automatics at cruise altitude, are able to fly halfway across Europe without noticing that they should be talking to somebody.
Regarding the ethical dilemma of 1 aircraft full of pax VS many more people on the ground, I fully respect the germans with that regard. Main thing is that they have given it some thought before a potential incident takes place and that they have made the decision beforehand. Once the event is underway there won't be enough time to have this kind of debate.
http://www.allthetests.com/quiz31/pi...jpg?1436189258
I also bet that all other NATO contries have procedures in place for such a case, and that if a decision is made to bring down a civilian aircraft, this decision will not be a decision the pilot in the interceptor will have to make. This decision will be made in the highest leadership level.
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For all those involved 33 minutes( if that is the correct duration of silence )must have seemed a long time. Considering it was headed for London it must have been an intense time also for all those at CRC . Just imagine the available alternatives, had this been another Helios airways ghost plane. The crew do deserve a bit of a vindaloo rollocking.
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Relax. May be a mere coincidence. 9W118 was flying 10-12kts faster and caught up with BA which slowed down 2kts.
Assuming BA had front row seat to this drama... from 15:53 UTC to 16:26 UTC and aware of impending intercept, gawking is human nature.
@Yaw String, Hollywood already has a SOP for this, watch Executive Decision(1996). Use taillights to send morse code.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx4Q_ltT1go
Assuming BA had front row seat to this drama... from 15:53 UTC to 16:26 UTC and aware of impending intercept, gawking is human nature.
@Yaw String, Hollywood already has a SOP for this, watch Executive Decision(1996). Use taillights to send morse code.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx4Q_ltT1go
