SWISS LX40 [ZRH-LAX] diversion to Iqaluit
but that sure sounds like a case where avionics decide that keeping that engine running is a major threat and shut it down without human intervention. Looking forward to reading input from people who know whether that's even possible...
I'm baffled anyone would read anything into a news article, e.g. 'automatic shutdown'. It's anyones guess where 'the news' get their facts from, but anyone who has inside knowledge on anything they report on, will tell you that most of the time they get it dead wrong.
Now, to my knowledge there is no such thing as 'automatic shut-down' of main engines on any airliner. For the APU, yes, but for the big noisy things hanging off the wings, there are only 3 ways of getting them to shut down: Run out of fuel, suffer catastrophic failure or command by the crew.
Now, to my knowledge there is no such thing as 'automatic shut-down' of main engines on any airliner. For the APU, yes, but for the big noisy things hanging off the wings, there are only 3 ways of getting them to shut down: Run out of fuel, suffer catastrophic failure or command by the crew.
This was done to address a specific FAA concern that UHT on the ground was catastrophic.
In flight, the FADEC will always do it's best to keep the thing running.
Edit: On further reflection, there is another scenario - overspeed (i.e. rotor speed over redline) - if the high rotor speed exceeds redline by a preset value, a separate circuit in the engine control will cut the fuel to protect the structural integrity of the engine. However this isn't applicable to the GE90 on the 777-300ER (it has a mechanical fly-ball governor that will hold N2 at redline).
Last edited by tdracer; 2nd Feb 2017 at 20:46.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Spain
Age: 69
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AFAIK all that "automatic shut-off" stuff is after a media report/article.
Did any authorized technical statement (Swiss, Boeing) give any clue/info about this subject?
Did any authorized technical statement (Swiss, Boeing) give any clue/info about this subject?
Delta recently had a 767 divert to Cold Bay Alaska. A new engine was flown in by C130. The bigger problem they had was Cold Bay did not have enough deice capability for a 767. They had to hire the big Russian airlifter to fly two deice trucks and a tanker in for the deice. Only other option was wait for spring!
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: on the rock
Posts: 29
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Short trip report from somebody onboard:
trip report
Obviously very well handled by the crew & SWISS.
trip report
Obviously very well handled by the crew & SWISS.
Often, people (including aviation professionals) will classify any uncommanded shutdown as an "automatic" shutdown - that only really means that the engine quit without any crew input.
Educated guess, based on what I know about the GE90, is that it was a gearbox issue. Something in the gearbox fails, drive is lost to the fuel pump, no fuel pump means no fuel and the engine "automatically" shuts down...
Educated guess, based on what I know about the GE90, is that it was a gearbox issue. Something in the gearbox fails, drive is lost to the fuel pump, no fuel pump means no fuel and the engine "automatically" shuts down...
Presumably RR and its shareholders will be relieved that it wasn't a Trent that quit this time. They've had enough problems (non-mechanical) this year already.
Often, people (including aviation professionals) will classify any uncommanded shutdown as an "automatic" shutdown - that only really means that the engine quit without any crew input.
Educated guess, based on what I know about the GE90, is that it was a gearbox issue. Something in the gearbox fails, drive is lost to the fuel pump, no fuel pump means no fuel and the engine "automatically" shuts down...
Educated guess, based on what I know about the GE90, is that it was a gearbox issue. Something in the gearbox fails, drive is lost to the fuel pump, no fuel pump means no fuel and the engine "automatically" shuts down...
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Paso Robles
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought so too. Imagine changing engines in those conditions! Wonder if Air Canada has any support there.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Such aircraft could be retrieved and brought to another airport by company's test pilot. Yes, they can obtain a ferry permit and fly it out on a single engine (sufficiently empty of course). It is up to the airline how they want to handle it. I know United had test pilots for jobs like that - they would fly a crippled airliner sometimes across the globe.
I'm with Airbubba. There is an approved procedure to do engine out, non-revenue ferry of the 747 - i.e. 3 engine ferry (the procedure is in the AFM) - but I've never heard of anything equivalent for the 777 (or any commercial twin).
I'm with Airbubba. There is an approved procedure to do engine out, non-revenue ferry of the 747 - i.e. 3 engine ferry (the procedure is in the AFM) - but I've never heard of anything equivalent for the 777 (or any commercial twin).
Don't they do test flights with an engine out on takeoff?
If it's non-revenue and the crew agrees why can't you get approval?
Don't they do test flights with an engine out on takeoff?
Don't they do test flights with an engine out on takeoff?
The FAA tends to frown on such things - even for flight testing or non-revenue.
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Posts: 5,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
I'm not rightly sure they start the takeoff roll with an engine shutdown in a Boeing.
Hank Beaird did demo this questionable maneuver in 1964 with a fed onboard however. It was in N801L, the first of two Learjet prototypes. Unfortunately, they had left the spoilers up after the previous landing and balled the plane up in a field off the end of the runway at ICT. Hank and the fed were unhurt but Lear had to exhibit the second prototype at the upcoming Reading, PA airshow without a finished interior.
Hank Beaird did demo this questionable maneuver in 1964 with a fed onboard however. It was in N801L, the first of two Learjet prototypes. Unfortunately, they had left the spoilers up after the previous landing and balled the plane up in a field off the end of the runway at ICT. Hank and the fed were unhurt but Lear had to exhibit the second prototype at the upcoming Reading, PA airshow without a finished interior.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Canadian Shield
Posts: 538
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an aside, if anyone would like to know just how an engine change used to be done in the high Arctic, I strongly recommend a read of 'Bent Props & Blow Pots' by Rex Terpening.
Those guys were made of something different to all of us.
Those guys were made of something different to all of us.