Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner) If you're not a professional pilot but want to discuss issues about the job, this is the best place to loiter. You won't be moved on by 'security' and there'll be plenty of experts to answer any questions.

Speedbird

Old 28th Jan 2017, 15:50
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: BHX LXR ASW
Posts: 2,269
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Why do airlines use a mixture of numbers and letters in their call signs. Years ago it used to be the flight number. Back in those days for example Speedbird 501 used to be the flight to JFK. Nowadays I haven't a clue what the first flight to JFK is.
crewmeal is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2017, 15:55
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
'Bealine' was the BEA c/s throughout my spotting days in the late 1960s/early '70s.
I also remember the Norjet/Cambrian ones too. The NE VC8s and Tridents were easily visible heading down Amber One East from EGNM/EGNT.
Before ICAO flight-prefixes became 3 letters, BOAC/Speedbird was BA and BEA/Bealine was BE. I don't know when the Beeline c/s was introduced though?
British Midland's prefix was BD.
Britannia were BY, I think Monarch were OM?

The 2 letter codes were still in use when I joined NATS in 1979. I think the change to 3 letters was in the mid 1980s?

Last edited by ZOOKER; 28th Jan 2017 at 17:18.
ZOOKER is offline  
Old 28th Jan 2017, 17:08
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,787
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Originally Posted by crewmeal
Why do airlines use a mixture of numbers and letters in their call signs. Years ago it used to be the flight number. Back in those days for example Speedbird 501 used to be the flight to JFK. Nowadays I haven't a clue what the first flight to JFK is.
Call-sign Confusion - SKYbrary Aviation Safety
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2017, 02:01
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,631
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
The Speedbird logo was designed for Imperial Airways in the early 1930s by a chap called Theyre Lee-Elliott, who when at Cambridge (reading Theology of all things) had spent much of his time on sports, being a tennis Blue and an England table-tennis champion. Didn't become a vicar but instead a freelance artist, where he picked up a considerable number of commissions, including the Imperial logo and name, which has certainly stood the test of time. It may be the oldest airline branding of all still in use.

Although BA don't use the graphic much now there is a permanent reminder done in the tile-work of Hatton Cross Underground station, next to the BA maintenance HQ.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theyre_Lee-Elliott
WHBM is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2017, 10:16
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LEEDS
Posts: 1,257
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Interesting post from Airbanda. Only in a classic British state-owned company could so many callsigns be in simultaneous use - in what was (as far as the travelling public knew) a single airline business. Or am I over-simplifying ??

Possibly by the time Speedbird had been universally adopted, British Airways had walked from EGNM and passed their routes to British Midland and Air UK (1980). But they came back- eventually!
Mooncrest is offline  
Old 29th Jan 2017, 12:35
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: London UK
Posts: 7,631
Likes: 0
Received 16 Likes on 14 Posts
Only in a classic British state-owned company could so many callsigns be in simultaneous use - in what was (as far as the travelling public knew) a single airline business.
This is nothing compared to the major US airline hubs nowadays, where the dominant carrier will have every Tom, Dick and Harry of a subcontractor running "commuter" flights under their own callsign, while in the full livery and branding image of the mainstream airline.

That's until they have an accident, when the main carrier instantly distances themselves from the operator.
WHBM is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2017, 17:04
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
...The ceiling supports in the current Simulator Hangar (Old main maintenance hangar) are (supposedly) also a tribute to the Speedbird design!
Lafyar Cokov is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2017, 17:38
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not too sure how they spell it, but recently Brussels Airlines ( formerly Sabena and lots of other names / constituents ) have been using 'B-Line' as their call sign.

How recent is recent ?
Hussar 54 is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2017, 18:12
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: se england
Posts: 1,570
Likes: 0
Received 44 Likes on 20 Posts
Well said WHBM, Airlines love branding but not the responsibility that goes with it
pax britanica is offline  
Old 31st Jan 2017, 22:21
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,787
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Hussar 54
Not too sure how they spell it, but recently Brussels Airlines ( formerly Sabena and lots of other names / constituents ) have been using 'B-Line' as their call sign.

How recent is recent ?
Not very.

The callsign changed from "Brussels Airlines" to "Bee-Line" with Issue 143 of ICAO Doc 8585 in January 2008.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2017, 05:37
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Dorset UK
Age: 70
Posts: 1,886
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 11 Posts
Not been to Heathrow for nearly 5 years now, but I recall the BA maintenance tugs using "B line" call sign when towing aircraft to and from the maintenance area.
Also, back in my spotting days, (late 60s) BEA used "Bea line" followed by the last 2 letters of the registration. e.g. "Bea line Papa Echo".
dixi188 is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2017, 13:04
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
B-line still in use for BA tugs towing aircraft between the maintenance hangar and the terminals. They don't need a callsign really, as they are easily identified by their maximum speed of 0.1 Kts per hour.
no sponsor is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2017, 15:43
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Hyeres, France
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DaveReidUK
Not very.

The callsign changed from "Brussels Airlines" to "Bee-Line" with Issue 143 of ICAO Doc 8585 in January 2008.
Thanks for the info....

Surprised that it's now almost ten years - heard it for the first time as we were lining up for take off in Dakar just a couple of months ago and spent five minutes waiting to see what was actually going to land.
Hussar 54 is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2017, 19:02
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 1,221
Received 9 Likes on 7 Posts
My memory suggests that the original format of the Shuttle call sign was along the lines shuttle 1 Alpha where 1 indicated the route and direction (so, for the sake of argument 1 = LHR/GLA and 2=GLA/LHR, 3=LHR/EDI etc). The letter indicated the sequence so 1A was the first LHR/GLA 1B was the second LHR/GLA. By doing that they overcame any issues relating to flight numbers because they never really knew when they might have to insert a flight into the schedule.

I once asked a BA shuttle manager if he took any notice of reservations (because connecting passengers, in particular, could be booked). Well, he said, I did once ask just before Christmas how many reservations we had for Belfast and when they told me I borrowed a Tristar but I didn't really need it.
Hartington is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2017, 19:08
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,787
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Lafyar Cokov
...The ceiling supports in the current Simulator Hangar (Old main maintenance hangar) are (supposedly) also a tribute to the Speedbird design!
I'm guessing that's a reference to the cantilevers over the door openings:



I think any slight resemblance to the Speedbird symbol is coincidental, rather than intentional on Owen Williams' part.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2017, 19:09
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Reading, UK
Posts: 15,787
Received 196 Likes on 90 Posts
Originally Posted by Hartington
My memory suggests that the original format of the Shuttle call sign was along the lines shuttle 1 Alpha where 1 indicated the route and direction (so, for the sake of argument 1 = LHR/GLA and 2=GLA/LHR, 3=LHR/EDI etc). The letter indicated the sequence so 1A was the first LHR/GLA 1B was the second LHR/GLA.
That's pretty well how it still works.
DaveReidUK is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2017, 10:51
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LEEDS
Posts: 1,257
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Slight thread drift coming up. I remember in the summer of 1976 the LBA-based Viscounts were either in the new BA livery or in the old BEA Speedwing(?) livery but with British Airways titles. I guess the latter would have been series 802 aircraft, covering for any absent 806s from the old Northeast and Cambrian fleets, which would have been getting resprayed (for about the fifth time in their careers) in the new BA livery.
Mooncrest is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2017, 11:35
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,545
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
no sponsor

B-line still in use for BA tugs towing aircraft between the maintenance hangar and the terminals. They don't need a callsign really, as they are easily identified by their maximum speed of 0.1 Kts per hour.
...and the tone of voice....( you'll have to have heard it to understand.........)
wiggy is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2017, 13:45
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Hongkong
Posts: 202
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
"Require permission to tow (insert Bealine callsign) from the 'angar to the hapron". Usually in the gruffest voice ever heard......

With acknowledgments to Wiggy
Sygyzy is offline  
Old 15th Feb 2017, 13:53
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There was also the Scottish gent "Request tow from the good-old Bealine base......." How dare he be so cheerful at 3am!!
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.