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26yr old Captain - 19yr old Co-Pilot

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26yr old Captain - 19yr old Co-Pilot

Old 30th Sep 2016, 15:58
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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"SLF on Garuda F28s in the 1980s" - I can remember they had a panel that had acres of empty space - just about the basic T - and they were better than Bouraq or (shudder) Merpati

But the F28 was/is a great aeroplane for that part of the world - built for carrier-style landings on awful airstrips in dreadful conditions.......... Same in Nigeria
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 16:04
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Hi FLCH

I'm more impressed by a bunch of mid 20 year olds putting a man in space and on the moon.
As well as that Titov flew in space at age 25 (Still the youngest to do so).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gherman_Titov

In the context of the thread Valentina Tereshkova was 26 when she flew...
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 17:05
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Chronus, I completely agree with you. The only luck with the Hudson landing was that the highest professional capability was in the LHS that day. The passengers got lucky, also the F/O was an experienced and capable operator. I do not understand the significance of youthful command. Where I am uneasy is that I moved right to left on a B747 at age 34. I had been an F/O for 11 years prior. I only just felt capable at that age to make the transition from the perspective of experience, flying and life, to deal with the responsibility. We're all different of course and fair play to the young lady. However, I suspect some easy spin: look how easy it is to be a captain at a young age etc.

Last edited by olster; 30th Sep 2016 at 17:06. Reason: punctuation!
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 18:25
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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Olster

Read this and say there was no luck involved or no other crews could have achieved it. Yes he was a very professional exceptional brilliant Pilot and may I add man but not a God
You don't know this 25 year old female Captain would not have pulled it off

emergency - How miraculous was the miracle on the Hudson? - Aviation Stack Exchange
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 18:32
  #85 (permalink)  
 
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To a certain extent experience is not as relevant as the makeup of the pilot. There are people of Sully's experience and age who would have made a complete horlicks of the situation. There are Captains with 20,000 hours who have been very lucky that they have never been truly tested.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 18:34
  #86 (permalink)  
 
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Or they turned "a trying event" into a non event.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 18:43
  #87 (permalink)  
 
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That wasn't quite what I meant. 20000 hour pilots with the right make-up are a god send. There are however a fair few very experienced Captains who are not made of the right stuff and with more luck than judgement have survived their careers!
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 19:04
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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There is much tunnel vision on this discussion. The questions and considerations cannot be confined to accidents alone.

Some, if not most know or have heard of the hijacking of the AF 40 years ago. The Entebbe affair. At the time the captain of that flight, Michel Bacos was aged 52. How did he cope with the situation. Capt Bacos and his crew of 12 were offered the chance to go, but refused to leave while people were still being held.
I was a captain of Air France and before that I was in the Free French Forces under Charles de Gaulle during the Second World War - it would be impossible for me to leave my passengers, unimaginable, he said.
I told my crew that we must stay until the end, because that was our tradition, so we cannot accept being freed. All my crew agreed without exception, he added.
Perhaps it was this sort of thing Sully had in mind when he wrote "..weighing everything he knows while accounting for what he cannot know."
Under such circumstances, I wonder what sort of authority, let alone the qualities required to exercise the sort of judgement that can only be acquired by nothing but time, be possessed by a 26 year old captain and a school leaver first officer.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 19:15
  #89 (permalink)  
 
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Chronus, please us a quote block to differentiate your words from the words you are quoting from Captain Bacos (in re Entebbe_. It took a minute to realize that you had not been in the Free French forces with DeGaulle.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 19:18
  #90 (permalink)  
 
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I was in AWE too
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 19:31
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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My humble apologies to you both, PACE and Lonewolf 50. The only admission I`d make is that I have always remained in Antoine de Saint Exupery`s camp.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 19:38
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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Chronus

We can get too serious in these threads at least it brought a smile
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 20:01
  #93 (permalink)  
 
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Getting a bit serious, I feel!! Good for them (and Flybe, of whom I am not a great admirer!). Age, ability and experience certainly count, but not always in that order!
Many previous posts refer to young military pilots, not the same, I know. However, they did (and still do) remarkably well !
I had my full "Wings" some time before I passed my driving test! Still alive after a life in aviation ( military and civil) and have full confidence in the younger generation!!

Admire them.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 20:28
  #94 (permalink)  
 
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Quite some years ago I was flying with an Australian Domestic Airline who had quite a character of a Captain. This very large fellow was determined to be one of the highest " houred " pilots of all time. If I recall correctly he had 30000 + hours . Many people would say " wow , he has plenty of experience " !!!
However---- he flew the DC4 & 6's and a lot of freighters.
Without any exaggeration as soon as the aircraft was " clean " he would hand over to the F/O and go to SLEEP until close to the latter stage of descent.
Sure , this guy had plenty of hours but at least 75% of them would have been whilst asleep !!!!!!!!!!.
Many hours do not make an experienced Captain in a lot of circumstances and this is a prime example.
Experience is learned and can't be done whilst asleep.
A pilots hours are a good yardstick but it's very important to see just what those hours were gained on and under what conditions.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 21:18
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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All I can think of is how many 18 & 19 year olds who flew spitfires & hurricanes (ok mustangs if you were Johny come lately Yanks) that led the aviation growth in the 40s & 50s. That's the era when Pilots earned their crust. Today's aircraft have all the help from computers to help pilots in those days pilots really did fly by the seat of their pants!
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 21:23
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Haven't read all the posts on this thread but all I can say is that an inexperienced captain on EasyJet does not get rostered with a low hours f/o.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 21:48
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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A better tittle for the article might have read: 'Young female captain and co pilot, pilot Boeing 737', but it just doesn't have quite the same ring to it. Always good to read about though.

I've no doubt that the standards these pilots had to meet were considerable, well done to them both, there are not enough women in the flight deck and the rest of us could benefit greatly from the different perspective that they bring.

In relation to the experience debate, I was a told that I would be at my best and brightest when I first received my command five years ago. I remember thinking that although it was a big achievement to get there, surely this could not be the best that I could be as a Captain, after all I was only 36 and, God willing had a long career ahead of me. So I made sure that this was not true.

Every day I make an effort to learn something new about my craft. Whether it's reading crash comics to determine what went wrong and how I might have coped or looking up something in our procedures that I haven't seen for a while or discussing alternative courses of actions that we might take with other crew, I'm always learning. This has, so far ensured that I am a much better captain than I was five years ago and hopefully will get better yet.

I have no doubt that this Captain and her first officer will endeavour to improve themselves as they continue to gain experievnce, well done.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 21:54
  #98 (permalink)  
 
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Haven't read all the posts on this thread but all I can say is that an inexperienced captain on EasyJet does not get rostered with a low hours f/o.
Yes they do.
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 23:11
  #99 (permalink)  
 
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Sure , this guy had plenty of hours but at least 75% of them would have been whilst asleep
!!!!!!!!!!.
Many hours do not make an experienced Captain in a lot of circumstances and this is a prime example.
Experience is learned and can't be done whilst asleep.
A pilots hours are a good yardstick but it's very important to see just what those hours were gained on and under what conditions.
I am not an airline pilot but fly corporate jets as a Captain
I used to fly a number pf piston twins totalling 3000 hrs, often low level ( 10,000 -12000 feet in the worst weather,icing and turbulence! Often single pilot, day/ night, often OCAS and often into airfields which had poor or no instrument approaches. This meant a lot of creative flying.
Now its in jets which climb relatively quickly, are far more reliable than the pistons, go above the weather in CAS from start to finish as part of a crew.
The Piston twins were far more demanding and harder to fly making you think for yourself more especially operating in IMC OCAS than the jets
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Old 30th Sep 2016, 23:22
  #100 (permalink)  
 
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Its annoying that the PR at easyjet didn't research their claim. She's clearly not the youngest Airline Captain. The internet shows that in a fairly quick internet search and so many posts by people on PPRuNe are offering up names airline and dates, to prove it. The CNN article at the beginning doesn't differentiate with her being female it just says "Their employer, the British carrier Easyjet, believes McWilliams has become the world's youngest commercial airline captain" is it wrong that this frustrates me? I always felt accuracy was an important part of aviation, granted maybe not Airline PR.

Aren't Easyjet going through an industrial troubles with their pilots ATM? These articles may just be an attempt at good PR to focus attention away from those troubles.
To me this story is more a story about the failure of modern journalism. Any reporter worth their salt could have spent 10 minutes on Google and easily discovered that a 26 year old isn't the world's "youngest commercial airline captain". But in a bid to cut costs newsrooms have been slashed, and resources are limited. Reporters have basically become corporate PR writers, just rewriting company press releases instead of checking facts and sources (ie real investigative journalism). And in the world of twitter, where people want information instantly, media companies are in a battle to be the first to get the articles published, regardless of accuracy.
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