BA pilot upsets DUB ATC once again.
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It wasn't an incident at all, but the situation had the potential to be a bad incident like I said.
If you can't see that one aircraft being pushed into another has potential then you are an idiot.
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I agree with Gonzo on several parts, the video is clearly edited so the full facts aren't known and any safety incident should be reported regardless of how trivial you think it is. I also have issue with the childish remarks made by all the other crews. Certainly think them, never say them. That man they are winding up and raising blood pressure is about to fly an aircraft. It is good for all the other pilot sakes that no further incident took place otherwise they could be noted as a "casual factor" on the investigation report.
It's very easy to point the finger, but at least do it with all the full facts in place first.
It's very easy to point the finger, but at least do it with all the full facts in place first.
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Very difficult to listen to ATC when the ground crew are yelling at you they're stopping the push and you're trying to keep things safe. Aviate, navigate, communicate. Have you ever been on a flight deck?
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I'd guess that if you have just survived a controller's attempt to get you to push into the path of another aircraft,
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I'm only SLF / PPL, so not qualified to comment on the procedures, and who was right or wrong.
But what jumps out is the unprofessionalism of the other pilots who were so keen to get into a fight that wasn't theirs...what did they add other than satisfying their own egotistical desire to have a dig?
Almost wary of saying this, but was there something in this about having a go at an Englishman in Dublin?
But what jumps out is the unprofessionalism of the other pilots who were so keen to get into a fight that wasn't theirs...what did they add other than satisfying their own egotistical desire to have a dig?
Almost wary of saying this, but was there something in this about having a go at an Englishman in Dublin?
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I really think you all should spend a little time in a ramp tower at one of your hubs. The hassle the ramp tower controllers have to deal with is unbelievable. None of you would do this of course - but pre-emptive calls for pushback to get ahead in the queues, pushing then stopping blocking the ramp and the gate while bags are loaded, or paperwork that should have been handed to the crew is faxed by some route .. etc etc., The reason that you have a push crew of tug and marshallers is precisely because you cannot see behind you and someone will actually push when cleared rather than 10 minutes later so the marshallers can stop everything turning to worms. If you can take it spend a couple of busy hours in a ramp tower for your professional development you will learn a lot.
The transcript may have been cropped, but from what little is presented Stobart are cautioned about the BA pushing back. The first the BA appear to know is being stopped by the ground crew. Where was ATC trying to call Speedbird?
Yes, the Speedbird crew appear irked by the situation, rightly or wrongly; but I wouldn't say they're unprofessional about raising their concern. From another viewpoint, they also give the controller advance notification that they consider safety was eroded and the ATC has an opportunity to recall as much of her perception of the situation as possible, rather than finding out several weeks later and not have a complete picture of events.
The ignorant rubbish from other crews is indicative of poor discipline that's invading the modern cockpit. It's a poor reflection on the others, not the ATC or Speedbird. Tall poppy syndrome.
Yes, the Speedbird crew appear irked by the situation, rightly or wrongly; but I wouldn't say they're unprofessional about raising their concern. From another viewpoint, they also give the controller advance notification that they consider safety was eroded and the ATC has an opportunity to recall as much of her perception of the situation as possible, rather than finding out several weeks later and not have a complete picture of events.
The ignorant rubbish from other crews is indicative of poor discipline that's invading the modern cockpit. It's a poor reflection on the others, not the ATC or Speedbird. Tall poppy syndrome.
Join Date: May 2000
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All I can say is that it sounds like if most of you are ever assigned a trip to say, ORD, LAX, SFO, BOS or EWR you should definitely call in sick. You will be filling out ASRs for months....
When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!
When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!
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When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!
As pax how should I interpret this near ground miss and the response from so called professionals?
An incident and it was an incident requires a report. where's the problem?
Any other Yorkshiremen out there?
Quote: "When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!"
Haha, love it! :-)
With regard to this incident, all I know is that there have been plenty of times in my career when pushback has had to be stopped by either the groundcrew or ATC. In all that time (twenty plus years), I cannot recall a time where it took both of us crew to talk to the ground crew or 'deal' with the stop.
I am sorry but for an 'incident' like this (and yes, I am assuming that the aircraft did not even come particularly close to one another), occurring as it did in such a busy environment, the idea of filing a report would not even enter my mind. Obviously, in some peoples eyes I am not as professional as I like to think I am.
Haha, love it! :-)
With regard to this incident, all I know is that there have been plenty of times in my career when pushback has had to be stopped by either the groundcrew or ATC. In all that time (twenty plus years), I cannot recall a time where it took both of us crew to talk to the ground crew or 'deal' with the stop.
I am sorry but for an 'incident' like this (and yes, I am assuming that the aircraft did not even come particularly close to one another), occurring as it did in such a busy environment, the idea of filing a report would not even enter my mind. Obviously, in some peoples eyes I am not as professional as I like to think I am.
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So to put this in its context as stated at the beginning of the film
we shouldn't concern ourselves with a controller making a mistake because its justified under the circumstances (busiest day, at capacity 15 aircraft to look after, alone etc. etc.) because its ok to chuck the safety imlications aside, its not worth reporting.
I would have thought professionals concerned with safety would have submitted a report to ensure the next mistake isn't a more catastrophic one.
I am horrified at rhe unprofessional responses over the radio and on here.
we shouldn't concern ourselves with a controller making a mistake because its justified under the circumstances (busiest day, at capacity 15 aircraft to look after, alone etc. etc.) because its ok to chuck the safety imlications aside, its not worth reporting.
I would have thought professionals concerned with safety would have submitted a report to ensure the next mistake isn't a more catastrophic one.
I am horrified at rhe unprofessional responses over the radio and on here.
Had loads of incidents...part of the job ..but to make an irresponsible transmission that I will be filing a report does absolutely nothing for safety and only puts unneeded pressure on the controller.....
Guess the Sun will carry the headline "Brit pilot starts dublin p@@sing contest during centenary year of Irish revolution".
The first time I heard anything like that was in BEA during the continuous descent trails in the 70s...pilot sadly hung himself a few weeks later...not that I'm suggesting that nigel needs his head examined.
Guess the Sun will carry the headline "Brit pilot starts dublin p@@sing contest during centenary year of Irish revolution".
The first time I heard anything like that was in BEA during the continuous descent trails in the 70s...pilot sadly hung himself a few weeks later...not that I'm suggesting that nigel needs his head examined.
Yes, the Speedbird crew appear irked by the situation, rightly or wrongly; but I wouldn't say they're unprofessional about raising their concern. From another viewpoint, they also give the controller advance notification that they consider safety was eroded and the ATC has an opportunity to recall as much of her perception of the situation as possible, rather than finding out several weeks later and not have a complete picture of events. - Journey Man
Now why am I reminded of http://www.pprune.org/safety-crm-qa-...owboys-26.html ?
Jack
PS Just make sure you have plenty of time to spare...
Now why am I reminded of http://www.pprune.org/safety-crm-qa-...owboys-26.html ?
Jack
PS Just make sure you have plenty of time to spare...
Including one reported sarcastic comment from a Ryanair pilot with a short memory, presumably having forgotten that RYR have had at least 4 of their aircraft damaged in ground collisions at DUB to date.
Originally Posted by 6f1
not all BA pilots are unprofessional but a good proportion are!
If BA cut up rough, and they can, I hope you can back that up in court
Originally Posted by LL
I'm sure it wasn't that dramatic to be fair.
BA pilot DID sound a bit tetchy but we all have the occasional off day. In the end, nothing was damaged and the others had fun shouting at the airline they'd like to work for
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When I were a lad, we was lucky if we had wings on our plane ...
"Wings? You had Wings? When I were a lad I got blasted across the footie pitch out of a cannon. Only wings I had were me arms. Wish I had some wheels.
"Wings? You had Wings? When I were a lad I got blasted across the footie pitch out of a cannon. Only wings I had were me arms. Wish I had some wheels.