BA Pilot ATC Incident at DUB

[LNIDA]

Load sheet by ACARS problem i think

[MCDU2]

For the posters that think this is a storm in a teacup I disagree. This happens each and every day across the world. At LHR you don't see it as the Speedbirds are parked in "sin bins" awaiting their numbers and wouldn't dare trying it on. Away from base and quite often at smaller single runway airfields then it would appear its game on. The only difference this time is that Dublin airport is part of the live atc network and this has became very public. Hopefully something will come of it and a BA management pilot will issue an edict for the better of all aviators. But it will take a cultural change I feel which is easier said than done.

[Trinity 09L]

In the later scenario if the "wheels fell off". How would the CRM be effected by the input of the ATCO during checks.

[bracebrace!]

Waiting for figures is not the crews problem they have no choice

It is their choice to deliberately not tell Ground/Tower until they are have gone past the last 'Option' for clearing the taxiway for all the other aircraft in the queue behind them. It's basic 'Airmanship'

[wiggy]

At LHR you don't see it as the Speedbirds are parked in "sin bins" awaiting their numbers and wouldn't dare trying it on

Not quite. As I suspect you know they are, along with just about any other operators aircraft, held well short of the runway entry points (e.g. Pluto/Lokki/Loman, until ready) and, gasp, it's not unknown for other operators not to be ready when called, especially those coming out of T1/2/3 for the 27s. I'd agree the BA final figures system isn't perfect, far from it, but personally I've not had to decline a clearance to enter either of the 27's due figures or cabin in several years. OTOH there are issues with compression on the T5 to 09R routings, hence if needed ( and coming out of 5B or 5C it's not always needed) we either to sit on Bravo or those coming out of the southern T5 gates may wait on the terminal apron, leaving the access to 09R via Alpha clear.

The idea that BA flights are routinely held in "sin bins" around the airport waiting for figures is somewhat wide of the mark....

[T250]

What are the reasons in favour of this seemingly inefficient system of getting final load figures halfway down the taxiway, or in this case on the runway?

Is it cost? Why can't BA follow what every other airline I've dealt with do and go with final figures before pushback?

Might improve OTP beyond whatever OTP or cost saving this current ATC hindering ACARS system saves

[Ber Nooly]

Just to remind people that seem to think that the clip was edited to BA's disfavour, almost 4 minutes elapsed from the time of his first "standby" to when he was actually ready to take off (04:00 to 07:43). 4 minutes! I can't see any airline getting away with that at LHR, LGW, MAN, etc.

Unfortunately the LiveATC feed at DUB scans three frequencies, so that's the reason why some of this conversation was missed. Listen to the whole unedited clip and you will hear.

[captplaystation]

Probably someone in the dim & distant past thought it was "cutting edge", seems more like it is "cutting it to the edge". . . . . . . prefer our system of receiving an sms, usually well before the last pax has boarded.

[bunk exceeder]

There are little adjustments that need to be made once the actual load and pax split are known and staying on a gate awaiting the final figures will likely cause the odd inbound aircraft to have to wait somewhere for it to be clear as there aren't enough gates in many places and even if there are, they are best used efficiently. So ACARS loadsheets are great but if they need another couple of people in that department to make it run more smoothly, then grab a couple of the do nothing office people, like cabin crew managers, and get them to help speed it up a bit.

[captplaystation]

5 posts & 1st since 2009, were you turned down during selection then ? (poor love )

I think this accusation could be applied to many pilots in many companies (both "flag carriers" & "others", hell, even some LCC pilots from what I hear on the radio ) however, I believe most BA colleagues, are just as aware as the rest of us, that they are no longer a "protected species", and are subject (via their anal HR Dept) to pretty much the same level of B.S. as the rest of us.


Ask the Capt of the B777 "glider" if you think they retain any misconceptions of their "place" in BA.

[Skipness One Echo]

Waiting for the numbers, is waiting for the ACARS loadsheet? Why do BA have a large issue here when say EZY for example, do not.

btw, you bet your arse they wouldn't have tried that at home base. They most certainly do ask to be moved out of the way of they're still waiting for the final figures.

[bunk exceeder]

Captplaystation, nicely put. And SOE, to use a rowing analogy, I suspect:

[Mech1111]

I actually provide one of the two Liveatc feeds for EIDW

Here is the link to my archive of the recording
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ei...2014-1100Z.mp3

[Mech1111]

I havent listened back to the archive before this event (so dont take this as gospel), but I have read on another forum that the same flight was caught out not ready for push and start after requesting it.

[trustno1]

A strange decision this to move to Spotters Corner. Things that make you go hmmmm.

[Mech1111]

No agenda here, as you can see this thread is many pages long, my few posts are just supplying true links to the information being discussed and I added one other unsubstantiated as of this moment but relevant piece of info.

[captplaystation]

If we are (as led to believe by an earlier post ) "reassured" by the fact that our Nige was "offered" a DUB ATC number to dial up up on arrival at destination, shouldn't we maybe leave it to two "professionals" to agree (or disagree) on the evenings events, rather than launch into a ( what certainly appears to me as a Scotsman) bit of an Irish/English barely disguised full on racist to-do.

I am trying (as aircrew, but with many friends working in ATC) to stay "professionally " neutral , it is too late at night to even mention the racial stuff( (well, I have already) but, this thread would be best served if the spotters/stirrers took their business elsewhere.

I think most "pilots" on here can probably raise an eyebrow to some of "Nige's" responses, I am equally sure a few controllers are thinking "Oh, why couldn't she have maybe just toned that down a few degrees."

I am at a loss to understand why this sort of cr@p is dragged onto a public forum really. If you go down to the local tax office, or are stopped by the side of the road by the cops, do you record it & splash it all over youtube ? no ? funny that. Many years ago (very many ) as a spotty youth listening to my coveted air band radio, I remember reading some legislation concerning listening/reproducing/transmitting. . . are you sad little people actually legally allowed to record/reproduce ATC/Aircraft transmissions ? & if so, why exactly ? apart from filling youtube with "new-era" gossip what the hell are you doing exactly ?

[Hotel Tango]

If we are (as led to believe by an earlier post ) "reassured" by the fact that our Nige was "offered" a DUB ATC number to dial up up on arrival at destination, shouldn't we maybe leave it to two "professionals" to agree (or disagree) on the evenings events

Exactly. And as already said by Caulfield just a storm in a tea cup. I honestly think this thread should now be locked as there's absolutely nothing further of professional interest for anyone to add.

[Officer Kite]

are you sad little people actually legally allowed to record/reproduce ATC/Aircraft transmissions ?

In Ireland, yes they are.

As for "sad" ... while I'm not entirely sure whether you're referring to spotters or those with radios or whatever else but I think that's a bit uncalled for.

[PPRuNe Pop]

OK guys. This is getting out of hand. One or two are taking an enforced break while others with follow if the tone and niggardly aspersions are continually thrown around apparently freely. That, is just not going to happen.


Lower the tone, enjoy a debate, but do not get to the level of bombast and abuse however well it is covered up.


When I see that people get more and more vitriolic I can see that they are getting miffed that that their point of view is not being taken seriously or someone else is bettering their effort.


STOP! Think before you post and all will be well or you may be one of the others that have to take a break from this thread.


Got the idea?