Vapour trail pair over London
Gnome de PPRuNe
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,616
Received 291 Likes
on
159 Posts
Vapour trail pair over London
Afternoon all,
Just noted a pair of vapour trails in close-ish echelon starboard formation heading northeast over London from the Midhurst direction at 1200; they appeared to be fairly small, probably somewhere Learjet and 737 in size, and, no, they didn't appear on FlightRadar 24! They were probably less than a mile apart and appeared to be at the same altitude.
My colleagues and I are curious as to what they might be, if anybody knows and is at liberty to tell...
Thanks
Treadders
Just noted a pair of vapour trails in close-ish echelon starboard formation heading northeast over London from the Midhurst direction at 1200; they appeared to be fairly small, probably somewhere Learjet and 737 in size, and, no, they didn't appear on FlightRadar 24! They were probably less than a mile apart and appeared to be at the same altitude.
My colleagues and I are curious as to what they might be, if anybody knows and is at liberty to tell...
Thanks
Treadders
Last edited by treadigraph; 30th Oct 2012 at 12:33. Reason: Me heading was 90 degrees out!
Gnome de PPRuNe
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,616
Received 291 Likes
on
159 Posts
Which is why I said "appeared"...
I think if you'd seen them you might agree with the possibility they were a loose formation pair rather than two separate commercial aircraft in roughly the same patch of sky. Something like a pair of FR Aviation Falcon 20s perhaps.
Pity I didn't have any binos to have a closer look.
I think if you'd seen them you might agree with the possibility they were a loose formation pair rather than two separate commercial aircraft in roughly the same patch of sky. Something like a pair of FR Aviation Falcon 20s perhaps.
Pity I didn't have any binos to have a closer look.
If they weren't pushing out mode S, I would guess they were UK military types operating as a formation in class C airspace and hence perfectly legal.
I once got a pair of DC8s (of different airlines) about a mile apart at FL350 perfectly legally but that's another story.
I once got a pair of DC8s (of different airlines) about a mile apart at FL350 perfectly legally but that's another story.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys, lighten up a bit, poor old treadigraph wasn't insinuating loss of seperation, he was just curious as to what the (possible formation) of 2 a/c were? Reasonable question in the Spotters Forum I think.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Treadi, don't believe everything you see or do not see on FR24 it can be quite entertaining at times. Last night, for instance, any aircraft approaching Dublin vanished at around 600' only to reappear magically on the ground a few minutes later. Must have been the fairies or leprechauns mucking about. The other evening an aircraft labelled "from Somewhere Sunny to Gatwick" (can't remember exactly where) set off from Manchester and eventually landed at Luton (I think). This afternoon yet another has set off from Edinburgh and landed at Belfast Aldergrove but the given data were for nothing remotely resembling that route. You can have a great deal of fun watching FR24 especially when you have to guess the route. 
Edited because the leprechauns messed about with my spelling.
Edited because the leprechauns messed about with my spelling.
Last edited by DX Wombat; 30th Oct 2012 at 17:19.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One would hope so, but I felt
was a bit of a give-away? You know, close-ish echelon starboard, formation ?
a pair of vapour trails in close-ish echelon starboard formation
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I got the impression that HD was trying to convey the fact that judging altitude accurately from the ground, especially when the aircraft are into the vapour-revealing levels, just using Mk1 eyeball is extremely difficult. I'm sure you, like me, will have seen two aircraft which appear to be at the same altitude, heading straight for each other at an angle of 90degs only to have them pass each other safely leaving a nice + shaped trail because they were at different levels.
Last edited by DX Wombat; 30th Oct 2012 at 17:31.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The OP did NOT give any indication of height. He observed what was clearly (to him) a formation of two aircraft in apparent formation. That is quite possible and the OP is curious to know what they were. Not complicated really. Why are some of you making such an issue of this?
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: world
Posts: 3,424
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HD, I gathered he was talking high level Iīm just saying that he wasnīt trying to establish a particular FL. Now and again, in my particular bit of airspace, I see the odd formation of mil a/c among all the normal traffic thatīs trailing. I donīt find it particularly difficult to tell the difference.
As an aside, ever seen a CL-44 trailing at FL220? Great sight
As an aside, ever seen a CL-44 trailing at FL220? Great sight
Gnome de PPRuNe
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,616
Received 291 Likes
on
159 Posts
Yes, they were contrailing. Sorry, always have called them vapour trails... Approx route from Midhurst, NE over London, probably fairly close to over the top of Heathrow.
Trails were very short compared to the other well developed contrails which I've noticed throughout the day, which presumably suggests they were either close to the minimum altitude at which trails were forming, or perhaps a bit higher than most other traffic?
They didn't appear on FR24.
May well have just been a pair of vertically separated airliners - perhaps a couple of Flybe ERJ190s heading up north from Jersey, but there was something about them that suggested a pair and possibly of more interest. So if anyone saw them and got a positive ID, I'd be most interested to know.
Reminds me that about 35 years ago while at school not far from
Midhurst, I saw a couple of contrailing fighter formations. One was heading south between Woodley and Midhurst and later turned out to have been a batch of F-5s on delivery to some air force or other. The other was routing Midhurst towards Dover and was a group of four fighters and a four engined aircraft, I've always assumed a KC-135 accompanying a detachment of F-4s or F-15s from the US to Germany. I was in a French class at the time and couldn't take too much notice!
Trails were very short compared to the other well developed contrails which I've noticed throughout the day, which presumably suggests they were either close to the minimum altitude at which trails were forming, or perhaps a bit higher than most other traffic?
They didn't appear on FR24.
May well have just been a pair of vertically separated airliners - perhaps a couple of Flybe ERJ190s heading up north from Jersey, but there was something about them that suggested a pair and possibly of more interest. So if anyone saw them and got a positive ID, I'd be most interested to know.
Reminds me that about 35 years ago while at school not far from
Midhurst, I saw a couple of contrailing fighter formations. One was heading south between Woodley and Midhurst and later turned out to have been a batch of F-5s on delivery to some air force or other. The other was routing Midhurst towards Dover and was a group of four fighters and a four engined aircraft, I've always assumed a KC-135 accompanying a detachment of F-4s or F-15s from the US to Germany. I was in a French class at the time and couldn't take too much notice!
Treadigraph,
Looks like you witnessed two 17 (R) Squadron Typhoons from RAF Coningsby? Call sign Monkey. They were noted contrailing over the top Northolt/Heathrow as they went south. You probably saw them on their way back to Coningsby after working in the Portsmouth area.
Possibly you will have to be registered to see following. Possibly not?
Login • FighterControl • Military Aviation Forum
Looks like you witnessed two 17 (R) Squadron Typhoons from RAF Coningsby? Call sign Monkey. They were noted contrailing over the top Northolt/Heathrow as they went south. You probably saw them on their way back to Coningsby after working in the Portsmouth area.
Possibly you will have to be registered to see following. Possibly not?
Login • FighterControl • Military Aviation Forum
Eight Gun Fighter
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Western Approaches
Posts: 1,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
....and you don't need French...other than deux vins blanc.. et deux hamburger avec fromage...SVP
although used it this week,,,and Italian....crikey
although used it this week,,,and Italian....crikey
to all you doubters Gnome de PPRuNe
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,616
Received 291 Likes
on
159 Posts
Well I never, I was expecting they would be something a bit larger, but then I guess Typhoons are a fair old size.
Thanks folks!
PS, my French tends to be limited to words such as "aileron", "fuselage", "nacelle", etc, you may begin to see a pattern there. Unfortunately French (and maths) was not only interrupted by passing USAF formations, but also more frequently by a Mr Farley and his colleagues from Dunsfold. C'est la vie!
Thanks folks!
PS, my French tends to be limited to words such as "aileron", "fuselage", "nacelle", etc, you may begin to see a pattern there. Unfortunately French (and maths) was not only interrupted by passing USAF formations, but also more frequently by a Mr Farley and his colleagues from Dunsfold. C'est la vie!
Last edited by treadigraph; 31st Oct 2012 at 07:07.
