Virgin Atlantic A330 precautionary evacuation at LGW
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why has this thread been moved to spectators gallery?
Particularly when.... It may transpire that the evacuation and injuries in this incident were entirely unnecessary. The crew had no confirmation of any fire in the hold but elected to send a planeload of passengers down the slides regardless. In any evacuation it is enevitable that there will be casualties. The crew were aware of that, and this evacuation proved no exception.
Of course this thread got moved from R&N. This post will be deleted shortly
Maybe it got moved because of the usual uninformed speculation and hindsight club which had started to take hold as is the case with every incident regardless of which airline is involved. Maybe the crew elected to evac because maybe despite discharging both bottles there was still a fire/smoke warning?
Better a couple of sprained ankles than 300 corpses. Not an easy call to make but easier to justify an evac than a fatality.
Better a couple of sprained ankles than 300 corpses. Not an easy call to make but easier to justify an evac than a fatality.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: sussex
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Basil i can assure you that having being at the bottom of one of the said slides on the day , they didnt deaccelerate and in fact came down at speed and at all different sorts of angles. however as said in previous posts , with full evac procedures the idea is to clear the aircraft as quickley as possible and it is enevitable that some injuries will be sustained.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by vs69
Maybe the crew elected to evac because maybe despite discharging both bottles there was still a fire/smoke warning?
And there lies the first clue... You have flooded the confined space of the hold where the suspected fire lies with BCF.... yet the SMOKE (not fire or heat) warning persists Aside from that warning there is a complete absence of other information that suggests immediate danger to the passengers.
It is very well known that other things set off SMOKE alarms - dry ice vapourising, over ripe fruit. Although it is sensible to get back on the ground ASAP it requires a rather more enquiring mind before sending everyone down the chutes where injuries are 100% guaranteed.
I think Virgin are going to have a few lawyers knocking on their door shortly seeking compensation for those injured in a premature evacuation.
My apologies for the use of the word Fire, I stand by my previous statement. PS It's Halon, not BCF...
And I daresay the ambulance chasers will be queueing up, to comment further may be saying more than I should.
Safe flying.
And I daresay the ambulance chasers will be queueing up, to comment further may be saying more than I should.
Safe flying.
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Up North
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think we might be forgetting something here...
Opening the cargo doors is a no no before pax are off if fire suspected incase it makes it worse with the added oxygen. Fire crews are aware if this and so should pilots. Therefore, if there is doubt as to whether its on fire inside, the safest option is to evacuate before it gets worse. 300 minor injuries is still better than any deaths. If you can confirm that its not on fire then better to allow fire crews to inspect and safely disemark pax normally. Its already been stated here that its difficult to be sure but if that red smoke light is still on and theres doubt, its safer to evacuate rather than risk the fire worsening whilst pax still on board. Imagine the panic and injuries then, and also what we know it alls would be saying about why the hell didnt they evacuate earlier...
A320 TT 4500
Opening the cargo doors is a no no before pax are off if fire suspected incase it makes it worse with the added oxygen. Fire crews are aware if this and so should pilots. Therefore, if there is doubt as to whether its on fire inside, the safest option is to evacuate before it gets worse. 300 minor injuries is still better than any deaths. If you can confirm that its not on fire then better to allow fire crews to inspect and safely disemark pax normally. Its already been stated here that its difficult to be sure but if that red smoke light is still on and theres doubt, its safer to evacuate rather than risk the fire worsening whilst pax still on board. Imagine the panic and injuries then, and also what we know it alls would be saying about why the hell didnt they evacuate earlier...
A320 TT 4500
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Tunbridge Wells, UK
Age: 45
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think Virgin are going to have a few lawyers knocking on their door shortly seeking compensation for those injured in a premature evacuation.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Knowledge is knowing it's a one way street,
Wisdom is looking both ways anyway.
You may know there is smoke, but no fire... but the law of unintended consequences will pass judgment quicker on the participants than the spectators.
Wisdom is looking both ways anyway.
You may know there is smoke, but no fire... but the law of unintended consequences will pass judgment quicker on the participants than the spectators.
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Twickenham
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no right or wrong answer and it is an ever evolving situation. I did the same emergency many times on recurrent checks and the basic do's and don't were always hammered home and that stayed with me. I did experience a similar situation and eventually we moved away from evacuating down the slides and even steps on the runway.
We got an "Aft Cargo Fire" warning in a 744 600NM west of the Irish coast whilst heading home from Miami in 2004. I was looking at the overhead panel at the time and the First officer was checking the window heat on the side panel so it came as quite a shock. We completed the checklist items (basically reduce airflow and fire the first bottle), declare an emergency, leave the NAT Track system and headed for the nearest suitable airport, Shannon in this case, at max warp factor and then woke up the relief pilot who was on scheduled rest.
"Aft Cargo Fire" did not go away and we did not expect it to as we had blasted the first bottle and it would have been quite a fog in there which would keep the warning on as the fire detection system merely detects reduced visibility.
After 15 mins, Aft Cargo temp remained absolutely constant (low) and as there was no sign of heat on the aft cabin floor it persuaded the three of us that perhaps there was less of a chance of a fire in there.
We ran the DODAR* again and the last is R is Review, our first DODAR had us going flat out to Shannon and an emergency evacuation down the slides with the prospect of a ditching if things detiorated, the subsequent reviews over the next 60 mins gently downgraded the situation to steps at the end of the runway in Shannon and the ultimate one was disembarkation down steps close to the terminal after a Fire crew inspection.
We landed in Shannon having fired the second bottle on approach. On landing there were steps at the far end of the runway and fire crews all down the runway and we came to rest by the steps. Even evacuating down steps in the dark at 5.00 in the morning out on the runway has its problems as people go walkabout so after a chat and cursory inspection with the Fire Crew (touching skin of rear hold to gauge temp and looking for smoke) they accompanied us on out final plan, passenger disembarkation down the steps in an orderly fashion 20M out from the normal jetty and then up the steps to the terminal building. This was followed by opening the hold surrounded by all the fire appliances available within 30 miles of Limerick.
It was a false alarm, there was no fire and we knew 30 mins into the emergency that the cargo manifest showed some pallets of fruit so we always had our suspicions. All the cargo was removed, the bags were removed, the First Officer did the refuelling and we got the pax back on board and flew home to Heathrow with empty holds. We got in our cars and went home having filed just an Air Safety Report, the company sent an aircraft to collect the bags and cargo from Shannon. Never heard a word from the company or anyone else ever again.
* DODAR. Works for just about any situation, aviation related or not.
D: Diagnosis O: Options D: Decisions A:Actions R: Review
Only indication now as to whether you actually have a fire in the hold is the temperature in the hold and you can bet that all eyes were on that gauge and cabin crew were feeling the floor temp of the aft cabin.
"Aft Cargo Fire" did not go away and we did not expect it to as we had blasted the first bottle and it would have been quite a fog in there which would keep the warning on as the fire detection system merely detects reduced visibility.
After 15 mins, Aft Cargo temp remained absolutely constant (low) and as there was no sign of heat on the aft cabin floor it persuaded the three of us that perhaps there was less of a chance of a fire in there.
We ran the DODAR* again and the last is R is Review, our first DODAR had us going flat out to Shannon and an emergency evacuation down the slides with the prospect of a ditching if things detiorated, the subsequent reviews over the next 60 mins gently downgraded the situation to steps at the end of the runway in Shannon and the ultimate one was disembarkation down steps close to the terminal after a Fire crew inspection.
We landed in Shannon having fired the second bottle on approach. On landing there were steps at the far end of the runway and fire crews all down the runway and we came to rest by the steps. Even evacuating down steps in the dark at 5.00 in the morning out on the runway has its problems as people go walkabout so after a chat and cursory inspection with the Fire Crew (touching skin of rear hold to gauge temp and looking for smoke) they accompanied us on out final plan, passenger disembarkation down the steps in an orderly fashion 20M out from the normal jetty and then up the steps to the terminal building. This was followed by opening the hold surrounded by all the fire appliances available within 30 miles of Limerick.
It was a false alarm, there was no fire and we knew 30 mins into the emergency that the cargo manifest showed some pallets of fruit so we always had our suspicions. All the cargo was removed, the bags were removed, the First Officer did the refuelling and we got the pax back on board and flew home to Heathrow with empty holds. We got in our cars and went home having filed just an Air Safety Report, the company sent an aircraft to collect the bags and cargo from Shannon. Never heard a word from the company or anyone else ever again.
* DODAR. Works for just about any situation, aviation related or not.
D: Diagnosis O: Options D: Decisions A:Actions R: Review
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BBC News - Virgin plane in Gatwick Airport emergency landing
...
Passenger Tom Alridge: "I could smell fuel - it smelt like a barbecue"
...
...
Passenger Tom Alridge: "I could smell fuel - it smelt like a barbecue"
...
MoreComfortableSeat
I was looking at the overhead panel at the time and the First officer was checking the window heat on the side panel so it came as quite a shock.
Interesting story, glad it worked out ok......
scoobydoo44,
That's probably WITH the deceleration strip; without it you wouldn't have seen them flash past
I think they should have them set up at airports for pax practice; kids would love it and LCY could have one as a raft
That's probably WITH the deceleration strip; without it you wouldn't have seen them flash past
I think they should have them set up at airports for pax practice; kids would love it and LCY could have one as a raft
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lower Basildon
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speaking from experience - VS27 Passenger!
I was a passenger onboard the VS27 on Monday. I know only a little about planes and how they work etc so the majority of this has been interesting. I did not know that this aircraft could not 'dump' fuel or that the reason we went back to Gatwick was due to runway length and capability of emergency services. To be honest, I didn't question why we did not land at an alternative airport. Unfortunately I work with Tom Aldridge and Mark Bell.
I would like to give you all my version of events. After approx 15 minutes, the pilot requested 'please can the cabin crew on the left side of the aircraft come to the cockpit immediately'. I imagine he then briefed them and they began checking everyone had seatbelts on and that all luggague was under seats etc. The pilot then announced we would return to Gatwick. I do not remember if he said to make an emergency landing. I believe he may have cut the engine on the left hand side of the plane as when we were turning to line up with the runway, the right engine was making much more noise than normal as I guess it was powering the plane.
We came in to land extremely fast and the emergency services were present. As soon as the engine had fully powered down, we were told to 'Evacuate Now'. I exited the plane quickly and with only a grazed elbow. I have no recollection of a screaming crew and was caught by a fireman at the bottom of the slide and told to 'get away from the plane, now'.
Once we had been collected by coaches, we were taken to the gate, necessary paperwork completed, fed, watered (children were being provided with colouring books and pencils, clothing was provided etc), we were then police escorted to the Hilton once approval had been given by immigration where a buffet was laid on for dinner and breakfast. We completed forms in order to retrieve hand lugguage which we had back by 8pm. Virgin picked up the cost of mine and my colleagues dinner at the hotel. We have also been provided with a free flight anywhere with the exception of Australia.
We were informed that there would be a flight at 3pm the following day and specifically that it was a Boeing not an Airbus. On board the captain was speaking with passengers during the flight and they were running competitions to distract people.
On my flight back from Miami on Sunday, I was provided with another letter at checkin asking for my correct contact details as Virgin want to write to all passengers. Unfortunately a passenger was taken seriously ill on this flight and we we're prioritised for landing at LHR as the paramedics had been called. Captain informed us we would have to have a 'fast' landing. Again this was executed perfectly.
The last time I flew with Virgin prior to this trip and on my return from Cuba, we had a 'flyby' at GTW but again we're kept informed of the situation and landed safely. Apparently there was a plane on the runway and it was apparent the captain had interviened during our descent.
IMHO, The Captain, Crew and Emergency Services did an amazing job in respect of the VS27 and should be highly commended. So too should Virgin for the after care provided. Afterall, I got on the plane the following day!
Hope this helps clear things up for you all.
I would like to give you all my version of events. After approx 15 minutes, the pilot requested 'please can the cabin crew on the left side of the aircraft come to the cockpit immediately'. I imagine he then briefed them and they began checking everyone had seatbelts on and that all luggague was under seats etc. The pilot then announced we would return to Gatwick. I do not remember if he said to make an emergency landing. I believe he may have cut the engine on the left hand side of the plane as when we were turning to line up with the runway, the right engine was making much more noise than normal as I guess it was powering the plane.
We came in to land extremely fast and the emergency services were present. As soon as the engine had fully powered down, we were told to 'Evacuate Now'. I exited the plane quickly and with only a grazed elbow. I have no recollection of a screaming crew and was caught by a fireman at the bottom of the slide and told to 'get away from the plane, now'.
Once we had been collected by coaches, we were taken to the gate, necessary paperwork completed, fed, watered (children were being provided with colouring books and pencils, clothing was provided etc), we were then police escorted to the Hilton once approval had been given by immigration where a buffet was laid on for dinner and breakfast. We completed forms in order to retrieve hand lugguage which we had back by 8pm. Virgin picked up the cost of mine and my colleagues dinner at the hotel. We have also been provided with a free flight anywhere with the exception of Australia.
We were informed that there would be a flight at 3pm the following day and specifically that it was a Boeing not an Airbus. On board the captain was speaking with passengers during the flight and they were running competitions to distract people.
On my flight back from Miami on Sunday, I was provided with another letter at checkin asking for my correct contact details as Virgin want to write to all passengers. Unfortunately a passenger was taken seriously ill on this flight and we we're prioritised for landing at LHR as the paramedics had been called. Captain informed us we would have to have a 'fast' landing. Again this was executed perfectly.
The last time I flew with Virgin prior to this trip and on my return from Cuba, we had a 'flyby' at GTW but again we're kept informed of the situation and landed safely. Apparently there was a plane on the runway and it was apparent the captain had interviened during our descent.
IMHO, The Captain, Crew and Emergency Services did an amazing job in respect of the VS27 and should be highly commended. So too should Virgin for the after care provided. Afterall, I got on the plane the following day!
Hope this helps clear things up for you all.
After 15 mins, Aft Cargo temp remained absolutely constant (low) and as there was no sign of heat on the aft cabin floor it persuaded the three of us that perhaps there was less of a chance of a fire in there.
Mickjoebill
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: sussex
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
