New Startup
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New Startup
The title of the thread is slightly misleading as what I'm about to describe is merely an idea, although we have every intention to turn said idea into an actual airline.
Myself & a few others, using Boeing's airline startup service, are to develop a full business plan for a new airline to be based at Durham Tees Valley Airport & thereafter begin a campaign to get it noticed & hope it may get picked up by someone with the financial means to get it off the ground (excuse the pun).
At the moment we're in the process of listing all possible destinations & aircraft types & we'll build the business plan around that. Ideally, we wish to serve an even mix of business & leisure routes.
We're well aware of the difficulties ahead & I know a lot of the replies to this thread will be of a critical nature - we'll do our best to defend ourselves. It will be interesting to see how far the whole thing gets, there's no hiding the fact it's an extremely long shot!!
Regards,
DTVAirport
Myself & a few others, using Boeing's airline startup service, are to develop a full business plan for a new airline to be based at Durham Tees Valley Airport & thereafter begin a campaign to get it noticed & hope it may get picked up by someone with the financial means to get it off the ground (excuse the pun).
At the moment we're in the process of listing all possible destinations & aircraft types & we'll build the business plan around that. Ideally, we wish to serve an even mix of business & leisure routes.
We're well aware of the difficulties ahead & I know a lot of the replies to this thread will be of a critical nature - we'll do our best to defend ourselves. It will be interesting to see how far the whole thing gets, there's no hiding the fact it's an extremely long shot!!
Regards,
DTVAirport
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Go for it.
The industry is primed and ready for someone to shake off the tendrils of gloom and be bold and inventive. Yes, it's a hard road, but not impossible if done properly. Choose the right aircraft, get the right people on board, do some good deals with airports and who knows what you could achieve!
I was involved with a new startup a couple of years ago. It lasted 18 months, killed by circumstances outside it's control... but for a while there it was doing very well, at a time when it shouldn't really have done so if some in the industry were to be believed. That venture very nearly made it... it is possible.
Remember... the glass is half full!
The industry is primed and ready for someone to shake off the tendrils of gloom and be bold and inventive. Yes, it's a hard road, but not impossible if done properly. Choose the right aircraft, get the right people on board, do some good deals with airports and who knows what you could achieve!
I was involved with a new startup a couple of years ago. It lasted 18 months, killed by circumstances outside it's control... but for a while there it was doing very well, at a time when it shouldn't really have done so if some in the industry were to be believed. That venture very nearly made it... it is possible.
Remember... the glass is half full!
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May I suggest the following:
-Stop spending ANY time on what aircraft type to use, use Boeing start up service etc etc
-Spend ALL your time on identifying where the passenger demand is
-Based on that decide on the right type aircraft type
-Based on that get a good Acmi operator of that type to quote you for at least a year flying (just like EZY did when they started!)
-Based on their cost write a business plan
-Based on that get funding
After a year flying start thinking about starting your own airline... If not you will fall in the pilot wishing to play airline trap....
-Stop spending ANY time on what aircraft type to use, use Boeing start up service etc etc
-Spend ALL your time on identifying where the passenger demand is
-Based on that decide on the right type aircraft type
-Based on that get a good Acmi operator of that type to quote you for at least a year flying (just like EZY did when they started!)
-Based on their cost write a business plan
-Based on that get funding
After a year flying start thinking about starting your own airline... If not you will fall in the pilot wishing to play airline trap....
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This may seem like a mad idea in the current climate but I believe that MME has great potential. I wish you luck and will be following this with interest. I visit the area quite often and who knows, I may become one of your passengers.
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Most start up's are under capitalised from the outset. Because of this they skimp and generally can only afford old unreliable airframes, not to mention they have no bargaining power to get a good deal. This then leads to tech problems which impacts on the schedule/reputation/refunds of the airline etc. Also since there is little money left in the bank after leasing/buying aircraft and setting up the organisational side of things and probably piggy backing of another AOC then marketing suffers. As a result very few people ever hear about the airline until it has gone under. A decent marketing campaign to reach your target market will cost millions. Invariably people then say oh what a shame, if only I had known I could get to xy and z for 29.99 then I would have given them a try.
Your also up against the competition. If you think they will sit around watching you undercut them then think again. Ryanair as just one example will happily fly pax for free to put you out of business. Then when your out of the equation they will jack up the prices again. How much cash will you have in a war chest to go toe to toe with the competition. And if you just happen to find a profitable route that isn't being flown despite the airlines having thousands of people involved in route proving and yield management then don't expect the competition to just sit there letting you get on with it either.
The major problem you will face is securing sufficient funding in the current climate and being able to pitch your business plan to the city who are no doubt growing tiresome of this sector. eg: EOS, Now, Silverjet, Futura, XL Airways, Skyserivce, Zoom, Euromanx etc etc. Read any analyst report about the industry and it is all about mergers in order to secure economies of scale and protect your own backyard. None of them mention setting up a new airline nor talk about their being any opportunities for such.
Airlines gone bust
Your also up against the competition. If you think they will sit around watching you undercut them then think again. Ryanair as just one example will happily fly pax for free to put you out of business. Then when your out of the equation they will jack up the prices again. How much cash will you have in a war chest to go toe to toe with the competition. And if you just happen to find a profitable route that isn't being flown despite the airlines having thousands of people involved in route proving and yield management then don't expect the competition to just sit there letting you get on with it either.
The major problem you will face is securing sufficient funding in the current climate and being able to pitch your business plan to the city who are no doubt growing tiresome of this sector. eg: EOS, Now, Silverjet, Futura, XL Airways, Skyserivce, Zoom, Euromanx etc etc. Read any analyst report about the industry and it is all about mergers in order to secure economies of scale and protect your own backyard. None of them mention setting up a new airline nor talk about their being any opportunities for such.
Airlines gone bust
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Also i would agree Meeting, Planning, Financial funding should go right ahead but as for operational reasons i would think a wait until Summer 2012 (looking at the Public Service crisis unfolding in the UK) before actual solid flights kick off.... Malaga & Faro would go down nicely at MME 
Any names at this stage? FlyUK sound nice
Any names at this stage? FlyUK sound nice
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Haven't got a name quite yet, we're trying to think up a temporary working title.
We don't want a name that restricts us to the North East though - no good calling ourselves Durham Tees Airways if we decide to open a base in Southampton or Jersey or somewhere!!
UK Wings has a nice ring to it.
We don't want a name that restricts us to the North East though - no good calling ourselves Durham Tees Airways if we decide to open a base in Southampton or Jersey or somewhere!!
UK Wings has a nice ring to it.
UK Wings has a nice ring to it
Well, register it quickly before someone else does - if not taken up already! - and good luck to you.
Jack
PS Avoid QTA (Quick Tees Airways) .....
Well, register it quickly before someone else does - if not taken up already! - and good luck to you.
Jack
PS Avoid QTA (Quick Tees Airways) .....
Onion did a work study on an airline startup from Teesside for an education project about ten years ago. Teesside gave him a lot of support as did Eastern. (pre Peel). A copy of the study was sent to Teesside Airport management and also to Eastern Airways. Admittedly, figures will be out of date but the concept was sound and is relevant today. I saw the finished report. Maybe Onion would like to contribute to this thread.
Last edited by Get me some traffic; 10th Jun 2010 at 22:55. Reason: Grammar
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Thanks Get Me Some Traffic, I'll PM Onion, see if he can help.
In the mean time, I'm having a hard time finding the fuel burn statistics for various aircraft types - could someone in the know please let me know what the fuel burn per hour is for the following types:
ATR 42-300
ATR 42-320
ATR 42-500
ATR 72-200
ATR 72-210
ATR 72-500
Beechcraft 1900D
Bombardier Dash 8-Q200
Bombardier Dash 8-Q300
Bombardier Dash 8-Q400
Dornier 228-200
Dornier 328-100
Embraer EMB-110 Bandeirante
Embraer EMB-120 Brasilia
Fairchild Swearingen SA226/7 Merlin/Metro
Fokker 50
Saab 340B
Saab 2000
A lot I know, I've got some, but I'm not sure if it's accurate info or not. Any help appreciated.
Regards,
DTVAirport
In the mean time, I'm having a hard time finding the fuel burn statistics for various aircraft types - could someone in the know please let me know what the fuel burn per hour is for the following types:
ATR 42-300
ATR 42-320
ATR 42-500
ATR 72-200
ATR 72-210
ATR 72-500
Beechcraft 1900D
Bombardier Dash 8-Q200
Bombardier Dash 8-Q300
Bombardier Dash 8-Q400
Dornier 228-200
Dornier 328-100
Embraer EMB-110 Bandeirante
Embraer EMB-120 Brasilia
Fairchild Swearingen SA226/7 Merlin/Metro
Fokker 50
Saab 340B
Saab 2000
A lot I know, I've got some, but I'm not sure if it's accurate info or not. Any help appreciated.
Regards,
DTVAirport
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DTVAirport,
I think your efforts are valiant, however, I personally think you are going the wrong way about it.
You are comparing fuel burn of aircraft between 19 and 72 seater aircraft.
Surely it would be much better to determine your target market, calculate predicted demand and speak to airports etc. to calculate your fixed costs before looking at variable.
For example, if your market can only sustain the 1900D and your fixed costs are £100 per passenger when operating a full flight, you know it isn't going to be viable.
My advice would be:
Discover your target market
Talk to airports, look for stats on CAA website etc.
Calculate fixed costs
Look how demand fits in with economically viable supply
Then start to look at aircraft, crewing, insurance, maintenance, on board etc.
I love your passion for it though!
I think your efforts are valiant, however, I personally think you are going the wrong way about it.
You are comparing fuel burn of aircraft between 19 and 72 seater aircraft.
Surely it would be much better to determine your target market, calculate predicted demand and speak to airports etc. to calculate your fixed costs before looking at variable.
For example, if your market can only sustain the 1900D and your fixed costs are £100 per passenger when operating a full flight, you know it isn't going to be viable.
My advice would be:
Discover your target market
Talk to airports, look for stats on CAA website etc.
Calculate fixed costs
Look how demand fits in with economically viable supply
Then start to look at aircraft, crewing, insurance, maintenance, on board etc.
I love your passion for it though!
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Re New start-up
Really appreciate your desire to create something for Teesside again... it needs something - however, and please take this as constructive from someone who's been there three times and done it twice......
1. forget aircraft type at this stage
2. find finacial support (in principal) for about £20m
3. trawl through CAA route stats for regions and point to point routes and try to find gaps to exploit from MME
4. estimate (pesimistic - or at least realistic) the potential pasenger numbers avaialble - better to say won't work on paper than after start-up
5. how will the competition react - hence the £20m "war chest"
6. Having decided that the figures for the market potential add-up - then...
1. draw support from as many regional agencies as possible - if not financial the at least marketing - letters of support from Goverment Agencies can act as good references to approach aircraft suppliers
2. make sure you have the airport behind you - no point in blank looks from MME management when NEcho etc approach them about "new airline"
3. from stats derived from 3,4&5 above start to evaluate aircraft - if 1&2 above have drawn interest you'll find some aircraft leasing companies already interested.
The list goes on, but no short cuts (as my best previous boss used to say...) just hard work and determination - and PLEASE don't get romantic about airlines.... there falls many a good idea... good luck
Teabag1
1. forget aircraft type at this stage
2. find finacial support (in principal) for about £20m
3. trawl through CAA route stats for regions and point to point routes and try to find gaps to exploit from MME
4. estimate (pesimistic - or at least realistic) the potential pasenger numbers avaialble - better to say won't work on paper than after start-up
5. how will the competition react - hence the £20m "war chest"
6. Having decided that the figures for the market potential add-up - then...
1. draw support from as many regional agencies as possible - if not financial the at least marketing - letters of support from Goverment Agencies can act as good references to approach aircraft suppliers
2. make sure you have the airport behind you - no point in blank looks from MME management when NEcho etc approach them about "new airline"
3. from stats derived from 3,4&5 above start to evaluate aircraft - if 1&2 above have drawn interest you'll find some aircraft leasing companies already interested.
The list goes on, but no short cuts (as my best previous boss used to say...) just hard work and determination - and PLEASE don't get romantic about airlines.... there falls many a good idea... good luck
Teabag1
Seems a bit strange that someone supposedly seriously looking at starting up an airline asks a bunch of spotters for information on aircraft fuel burn!
A professional approach would be to ask the people who actually know - namely the manufacturer or the leasing company. At least then you would be able to rely on the figures you got back!
A professional approach would be to ask the people who actually know - namely the manufacturer or the leasing company. At least then you would be able to rely on the figures you got back!
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Groundloop - I'm no entrepeneur, the idea is to perfect the plan & basically hand over the whole thing to a willing investor, who'll then find someone who is an entrepeneur. If we reach that stage then myself & the people who are working on the project will probably cease to have anything whatsoever to do with it, which will be heart breaking, but that's life. So that's why I was consulting spotters about fuel burn etc.
I did think I'd have to defend myself a lot more, so I appreciate the lack of criticism & I'm taking onboard all advice that's being posted on this thread! It's much appreciated thanks.
I did think I'd have to defend myself a lot more, so I appreciate the lack of criticism & I'm taking onboard all advice that's being posted on this thread! It's much appreciated thanks.