Long Haul Flight Crew Rules

[ryand36]

Hey all,

Does anyone happen to know the rules about having a 3rd pilot on duty? I think that there is a cut off point in terms of sector length that means any flight longer than that point requires to have a 3rd flight crew member on duty. Does anyone know the specifics of this?

Any help appreciated!

Thanks

Ryan

[FLCH]

Ryan,

For those of us on the other side of the pond, if a flight is scheduled for more than 8 hours we need the extra pilot. Amazing how many of our flights start off at 7.59, but after so many flights over 8.00 in real time the Feds mandate a third pilot. HTH

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Ryan
In the UK Any long haul sector over 7hrs requires factorisation. This means a 1 sector flight say to Miami counts as 2 when working out the maximum crew hours. If the crew are returning the next day, unacclimatised, you have to count it as a 4 sector day. To get round this factorisation, you add a 3rd Pilot (who merely sits there and does nothing).
Some Airlines operating Ultra Long Haul routes will add 1-2 Pilots but this is when in flight rest can be taken which is a different situ to the above

[betpump5]

Depending on the departure time and departure location, sometimes you may never actually get any sleep when the relief pilots take over. When you get your place again for landing, I'm like a zombie.

[wiggy]

ryand

There are whole manuals on this topic so you're not going to get a simple universal answer such as "greater than X hours there must be an extra 1 or 2 pilots" that applies to everybody. There are national rules and then there are individual Company/Union agreements, so one pilots answer, such as FLCH's or Mr Angry's, are correct, but only for their operation.

Broad answer is it depends on variables such as the time of day of departure, end time of previous duty, start time of next duty, time zone changes....As an example of the nuances, we can do UK to Florida with no extra pilot, and the (night) flight back can also be done with just two pilots if the slip in Florida contains 2 local nights. If the slip is reduced to 1 local night then we have to have 1 extra pilot, depite the Flight time being unchanged..

[ryand36]

Ahh Thanks for the info!

That will explain then why my MCO-LGW flight could be operated by 2 flight crew. So for the majority of LH flights from the UK 3 pilots are need unless there are 2 night stays for the shorter flights!

Thanks for clearing that up in my mind.

Ryan

[Nicholas49]

wiggy, can I ask a question? In the Florida scenario you give with three crew members, would the captain and first officer fly the whole flight without a change-over with the relief pilot, given that the flight can operate with only two crew?

Does this not mean that the captain has to command a flight out and a flight back with one night in between, even though he has two F/Os to occupy the RHS? In other words, the captain gets less rest?

[wiggy]

Nicholas

Not quite - the co-pilots are qualified to sit in the Captain's seat in the cruise, so in the three pilot case the relief co-pilot rotates between his/her rest, the Captains seat and the Co-pilot's seat. The idea being everyone gets a break of roughly the same length. Ultimately if you've got the timing and sequencing right the 2 pilots who did the takeoff should end up in the front two seats for the landing

In addition Normal procedure in our Company is that the Co-pilot who was in the seat for take-off and landing outbound does the relief co-pilot job on the way home...

[Nicholas49]

wiggy - thanks for the explanation, much appreciated. Nick

[point8six]

As Wiggy states, there are a number of factors that are taken into account when determining the crew numbers. Not all long-haul flights out of London's airports require in-flight relief crew (JFK, ORD, DXB,LOS,NBO etc..). Some Authorities and airlines do not allow co-pilots to sit in the LHS and therefore the Captain has to occupy the seat for the whole flight, even if 2 co-pilots are carried.