PPRuNe Forums


Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner) If you're not a professional pilot but want to discuss issues about the job, this is the best place to loiter. You won't be moved on by 'security' and there'll be plenty of experts to answer any questions.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 18th Aug 2009, 01:59   #61 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Manchester
Age: 47
Posts: 48
Regards the Col. Halt denial, I remember reading a fair bit of stuff at the time it became big news (as you do).

If I remember it right, he did initially believe it which prompted the infamous memo. He then was made to look like a bit of a prat for claiming UFO's were visiting US bases and told to drop it, by which point the memo's existence was suspected.

Halt then decided to deny it completely as a variety of people went after the memo, a position he maintained for several years.

He then decided to 'go public' after leaving USAF, maintaining the original account based on his memo was accurate and making a few TV shows based on it.

Obviously a lucrative business this close encounter stuff....
Skyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Aug 2009, 10:37   #62 (permalink)
Bear Behind
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Yerp
Posts: 348
Quote:
But where are those photos, panda-k-bear?

I've followed that Boscombe Down story for years, in some detail, and have never seen the photos that you describe. Their existence is often claimed, but when challenged nobody quite seems able to find them...

It has often been discussed, with much plausibility, that the "object wrapped in tarpaulin" was actually the rolling dummy ship's flight deck device that had recently been moved from DRA Bedford.

Many of the other assertions in "RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day" don't stand up to much scrutiny, either. For example, the C-5's arrival was more than a few days later, and there is compelling evidence (from civil ATC) that it had been expected for some time, as it was returning UK aircraft from a trial on the other side of the Atlantic.

In fact, there seems to be no evidence whatsover that anything crashed at Boscombe in Sep 94; the whole thing seems to hinge on a Wilts police closure - in broad daylight, not at night - of the A road that passes under the 05 threshold, due to a recovering fast jet with a particularly sticky in-flight problem.

2+2=55, for much of the claims in that article.

"Aurora" may or may not exist - my guess is that something fascinating almost certainly does - but an incident at BD in September 1994? I don't think so.
Fair enough... it just seemed, 15 years ago, remotely credible, unlike a lot of other "incidents". Obviously after all that time there's a lot more data and information available - and I haven't looked into it for 15 years but you evidently have, so there you go - another one conclusively disproved.

p-k-b
panda-k-bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th Aug 2009, 12:19   #63 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 73
Posts: 8,140
Skyfan.. agreed and thanks for confirming what I had heard. Wish I'd written a few books in the past !!

Regarding pictures.. I've been interested in UFOs for nigh on 60 years and I've yet to see a convincing photograph or video of a "true" UFO. I'm not sure that such pics exist. Somebody showed me a video clip recently of what was supposed to be an unusual craft - which it might well have been - but it had a flashing red anti-collision beacon suggesting that it did not originate from outside of Earth! I live in hope, though.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2009, 09:53   #64 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Posts: 186
No Aurora, then..

Rather sadly, this thread confirms what I believed - no Aurora, no UFOs.
On a forum dedicated to those who spend their working lives in the sky, and those whose pastime is looking at the sky, nothing to support the existance of UFOs or "secret" experimental aircraft has been seen or reported.
sharksandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2009, 17:19   #65 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 73
Posts: 8,140
I was involved in several UFO incidents during my time in ATC but I have put details on here several times so nothing new I'm afraid. Two at Heathrow and two abroad. Those abroad were impossible to explain and one still frightens me to think about some 40+ years later.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th Aug 2009, 20:22   #66 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: There and here
Posts: 1,512
For those that might have missed these tales, how about recounting them again on this thread HD ?



SHJ
SpringHeeledJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Aug 2009, 15:13   #67 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 69
Posts: 49
Just a few points from 'RAF Boscombe Down's Black Day'(#59)
1: Since when has it been an RAF Station? It's operated by MOD/DPA not MOD Air.
2: 500 - 510 mhz is I believe in UHF TV transmission territory - hardly suitable for confidential communications!
3: Boscombe test flying callsign is 'Gauntlet'. 'Tester' is used by the Empire Test Pilot School, and Blackbox was originally the callsign of the Radar Research Unit at Pershore, which moved to Bedford then Boscombe.
chevvron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21st Aug 2009, 17:07   #68 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 73
Posts: 8,140
And Chevvron really knows what he's talking about guys...
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Aug 2009, 08:45   #69 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Posts: 186
Requesting a repeat...

HEATHROW DIRECTOR, I agree with Spring Heeled Jack!
I have tried to find your previous posts and failed to find them.
If you have seen unexplained things, could you recount some of them here, please? Or put in a link?
sharksandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd Aug 2009, 15:20   #70 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Posts: 186
Information from HEATHROW DIRECTOR with his permission:

UFO EXPERIENCES

North Africa. Late 1960s.

I was employed as an Air Traffic Controller at an international airport, located some distance inland from the city. There was no radar equipment at the airport. However, a large military air base located nearby had extensive radar facilities where my colleagues worked under contract to the military. One of their tasks was the provision of Area Radar Control for which my unit was the Area Control facility controlling the large TMA.

Basic ATC procedures called for us to telephone the radar unit and provide them with all flight plans and estimates which we received from the parent ATCC in Malta. In this way the radar unit was updated with all aircraft movements and had them readily to hand should we telephone for radar assistance. (In those days the procedural controller ran the show and the radar controller was there to provide assistance when required).

The boundary of our TMA was approximately 100nm around the airfield and all aircraft movements were “known”, i.e. nothing moved without our knowledge. There was a mixture of civil commercial operating into the airfield where I worked, military transports and fighters for the military base and a mix of overflying traffic. The only other aviation activity was one or two helicopters and a few light aircraft operated by a local flying club.

Incident 1 It was during a night shift, when the only aviation activity was overflying traffic operating between Europe and various African destinations, amounting to about a dozen movements during the night hours. As usual, Malta ATCC routinely provided us with estimates on all traffic passing through our area and we, in turn, passed these to the radar unit. During the very early hours the telephone line from the radar unit rang – an extremely unusual occurrence as we rarely needed radar assistance for overflying traffic and the controllers were able to rest before the morning rush. The military ATC assistant had been idly watching the radar and had seen an aircraft approaching from the northwest and rang us to obtain details. We had no information so we contacted Malta ATCC. They too had no information but requested information from the ATC authority for the country over which the object was flying. This proved negative.

The radar unit ATC assistant continued to monitor the situation and soon alerted his controller. At this stage the object was moving fairly fast, but not unduly so, and could easily have been a conventional jet aircraft. However, soon after, the military GCA facility telephoned to say they were also watching the object, which was by then heading directly for the airbase. The military began to get nervous and went into an alert phase prior to declaring a full evacuation – a major event by any standards. GCA soon reported that they had the object on the PAR element and it was very low, apparently making an approach to the base. The object – a bright light - overflew the air base in full view of the tower controllers but without there being any noise. It then turned south and flew off towards the desert, accelerating to the sort of speed which, at the time, no conventional aircraft could achieve (I recall a figure of 1300 kts being mentioned). Soon it had gone from radar cover. All the controllers involved were seriously shaken by the incident.

We discussed the matter for a long time after the event but no explanation was ever forthcoming. The radar controllers (Area and GCA) were all experienced with fast jet traffic; the area controllers had all worked with RAF V-bombers using bombing ranges in the nearby desert and were far busier with military jets than they were with civilian flights. The event remains a very disturbing mystery.

Incident 2 Following the closure of the civil airport for some days, I was the first controller to return to duty – for a night shift, primarily to oversee the departure of a VIP flight around midnight.

Basic facts are: The aircraft was cleared for take off on a north facing runway. As it started to roll, an extremely bright ball of light appeared to the east of the airfield, apparently just above ground level. To me it appeared stationary. However, as it was such an extraordinary event I alerted the crew as they rolled down the runway and they acknowledged that they had the object in sight. Soon after the aircraft took off the light vanished and the aircraft was later transferred to an en route frequency.

A week later I met the (British) pilot of the jet in town and he immediately spoke about the object. As they had lifted off it was apparent that the bright light was moving at some considerable speed towards them and had seriously frightened the crew. However, as they climbed away it remained beneath them and disappeared.

At the time of the event I made as many enquiries as I could with the limited resources available to me. The area from which the object had come was largely “desert” with virtually no habitation apart from shanty villages. There was no military activity there and certainly no other aircraft flying at the time. The local military offered no explanation and were as shaken as me.

Incident 3 Still in Africa but not quite as exciting, more curious – particularly in view of Incident 8 in this piece. Afternoon shifts were always quiet for the first couple of hours with just a few scheduled commercial jets and maybe one or two smaller aircraft flying about. It was a bright, sunny day and I wandered out on to the tower balcony. I saw a bright shining object in the sky, not much bigger than a pinhead, and alerted my Watch Supervisor (an ex-RAF Canberra pilot). One look through the binoculars and he announced: “It’s just a met balloon”, and walked inside to ring the met office, which was just one floor down. The met people had no information and were unaware of any ascent in the area. We made enquiries to the nearby military air base and everywhere else we could think of (not many out there!) but drew a blank. Air traffic started so we logged the event and got on with our work.

Incident 4 A week or two later as we were driving in for another afternoon shift my Supervisor joked: “Be funny if that UFO was still there!” Incredibly, it, or something very similar, WAS there! We passed the information to our colleagues on other watches but there were no other reports of the stationery shining ball.

oooOOOooo
Oxford Airport 1971

Incident 5 Upon return to the UK I was employed at Oxford Airport and was there at the time the “UFO” was recorded by a TV crew. I can’t recall too much – just a very fast moving trail in the sky. It’s probably documented elsewhere.

oooOOOooo

Heathrow

Incidents 6 and 7 Both occurred during my time at Heathrow. Unfortunately, without access to the ATC logs I cannot provide too many details. The incidents were logged and investigated at the time and, so far as I know, no explanations were forthcoming.

6. UK registered passenger jet in, or close to, the Ockham holding area. The crew reported seeing an orange disk shaped object pass close to their aircraft. Nothing was seen on radar. When the aircraft landed the Captain contacted ATC and it was decided that the best way to get the matter properly investigated was to file it as an airmiss rather than as a UFO report. I believe the resulting thorough investigation to have been inconclusive.

7. Foreign-registered passenger jet near Lydd reported a “missile-shaped” object passing close by. I do not know the result of any investigation.

Update: This note, obtained from another Internet site, refers to item 7 above:

21st April 1991, whilst approaching the English coast as captain of a Alitalia McDonnell Douglas MD-80 Achille Zaghetti and his co-pilot sighted a 10 foot long, brown coloured missile-shaped object which crossed directly in from of them at 22,000 ft. altitude. The event took place at 8-00 p.m. and Zaghetti contacted Air Traffic Control who confirmed that they had an unknown target on radar.

oooOOOooo
Finchampstead 2004

Incident 8. On the afternoon of 6th September, 2004, whilst my wife and I were taking afternoon tea in our garden and watching the aircraft heading for Heathrow (09L for landing), my attention was drawn to something glinting in the sky directly above us which I assumed to be a high-flying aircraft, but it was hardly moving. Prolonged examination through powerful binoculars revealed what appeared to be a shiny metallic “ball” and the focus adjustment of the binoculars suggested that it was somewhat higher than the high over-flying aircraft which could be seen passing nearby. The “ball” would fade and almost vanish from sight and then, seconds later, become so bright that it was clearly visible to the naked eye and too bright to look at through the binoculars. I contacted our son – a keen amateur astronomer living near Portsmouth – to ask if any “stars” could be viewed in daylight, for that is exactly what it appeared to be to the naked eye. He assured me that it wasn’t a star (and it wasn’t twinkling either). Venus and Jupiter – the only objects which I would imagine to be bright enough – were both above our horizon, but not close to the position of the object. (I checked the location of the planets using my Starry Night computer programme). It certainly was not a satellite either – these are not, to my knowledge, visible in bright sunlight and they usually move fairly rapidly across the sky.
I had no idea who else to contact. I wondered if it might be a meteorological or other type of, balloon... but its movement was against the wind, which ruled out that possibility.
We watched the object over our garden on and off for over 45 minutes – occasional passage of clouds obscuring our view - but we could not locate in it in the night sky later that evening due to the many stars which were visible.
Although the upper wind was blowing from the east, albeit at low speed, the object drifted towards the east, traversing maybe 5 degrees of sky in the 45 minutes or so during which we watched it. When we first saw it, it was slightly northeast of overhead and moved almost imperceptibly eastward during the period of observation.
See Incidents 3 and 4 above.
sharksandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd Aug 2009, 08:41   #71 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Posts: 186
Natural phenomena

Some ufos may be due to natural phenomena which we have yet to fully understand.
I recall the "foo fighters"( Foo fighter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ) have been linked to earthquake lights( Earthquake light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)( YouTube - 30 mins before the 2008 Sichuan earthquake in China )(there was apparently seismic activity in the area about the time they were seen).
Also, I have seen what is usually described as "ball lightening" in my house -a white glowing ball about the size of a grapefruit, about two foot off the floor moving through a room and disappearing through a wall - this was witnessed on two occasions by a visitor, who was as goggle-eyed as myself. This occurred for three nights in succession and then stopped (I should say my house is NOT built on the site of an old Native American burial ground!).
Obviously not a ufo,but an un-expained occurence, and one which I would dismiss as imagination if I had not seen it myself.

Last edited by sharksandwich; 23rd Aug 2009 at 08:53.
sharksandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24th Aug 2009, 21:00   #72 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: There and here
Posts: 1,512
Might the last example of HD's list have been a satellite in geosynchronous orbit ? Perhaps even one of those 'nosey' ones that peek over our shoulders ? The pulsating of the light might have been the solar panels and/or antennae moving ? I certainly have seen a satellite or two in the daylight before, actually the ISS and that American spy satellite that came down through the atmosphere a year or two ago (by complete chance).

The other of the attacking light from the desert...... that must have been freaky, especially as it was plausible that the USSR might have been the attacking 'aircraft'. Were there any 'experimental' or secret aircraft at the time that might have been under test to see how they might fare in war conditions ? Obviously with the passing of time such information might have come to light contained in released records.

Any thoughts gents ?


SHJ
SpringHeeledJack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 11:15   #73 (permalink)
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: DORSET
Posts: 186
sprites, elves, and gigantic jets..

..and ball-lightning:

Caught on camera: The 40-mile lightning bolt that shot UPWARDS from storm cloud | Mail Online
sharksandwich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 12:07   #74 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 69
Quote:

Why did a YF-23, or something that looks very like one, crash at Boscombe Down back in September 1994? What was it doing there? What actually was it?

There's no real possibility of denial -
So what was that all about then?
Like all conspiracy theoreis, what starts as one simple incident, gets snowballed out of all proportion due to soemone (generally who desperatly wants to belive something in the first place) adds 2 and 2 togther, and makes a huge number. For what it is worth, and people who believe the conspiracy theory will not believe me, I worked at Boscombe at that time and can perhaps shed sone light on some of the bits of the equation:

1. There was an incident on a Tornado which was doing trilas with a towed decoy, which failed to retract, hence the shutting of the main road outside the base.
2. There are generally American exchange pilots at Boscombe (at the time, it was Rick Husband I think, the shuttle commander during the Colombia accident).
3. A C5 was at Boscombe to take (or bring back) a helicopter from AUTEC.
4. The unmarked Boeing 707 was an Italian Air Force tanker at Boscombe for AAR trials.
5. The Agusta 109 was at Boscombe for trials.
6. The Gulfstream was a VIP aircraft. (Interesting aside. It was Tom Cruise visting Nicole Kidman who was in the local area making a film. Heale House- Portrait of a Lady).
7. The rolling deck was just being delivered from Bedford. Covered in tarpaulin.

All of these things happened in the space of a few days. As I said 2+2 is a huge number
Two_Squirrels is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25th Aug 2009, 21:22   #75 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 73
Posts: 8,140
Thanks for that Two Squirrels; sets the record straight. Alas, the bananas won't believe you and will insist it's all part of the cover up!!

There's a UFO book by a British author (for whom I once had some regard) which details a "cover up" by Heathrow ATC. The extraordinary thing was that I was "in" on the Heathrow end and what was written in the book was complete rubbish! When I showed the book around to those involved you could have heard us laughing from the M4..
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th Aug 2009, 21:42   #76 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 69
Posts: 49
Trying not to advertise; would that be a goode book?
chevvron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Aug 2009, 07:58   #77 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 73
Posts: 8,140
Chevvron.... Yes, T. I loaned my copy to someone and never saw it again but I recall that it showed a copy of the letter received from Heathrow ATC, which I was involved in!
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th Aug 2009, 13:52   #78 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 69
Posts: 49
I've got a copy somewhere in the recesses of my loft so I haven't read it for years. Bought it at an Antique fair about 20 years ago. I first learnt about Area 51 and Bob Lazar's claims from this, and of course, what Lazar saw and worked on could be something to do with the subject matter!!
chevvron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2nd Sep 2009, 16:55   #79 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: River Thames & Surrey
Age: 69
Posts: 49
You have to laugh at some seemingly genuine 'reports' though; f'rinstance there was the magazine article where the writer had visited the Farnborough Air Show and claimed he'd heard noises 'from the secret underground hangars'!! (NB the water table is about 6 inches below the surface), and the stuff Jenny Randles wrote about the Rendlesham Incident (Bentwaters); there was the 'mysterious' de-foliated areas at the end of the runway, and the civilian electrician who was called out to trace a fault in the airfield lighting and who was under armed guard while on the base (a USAF base where he had no pass)
chevvron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3rd Sep 2009, 14:54   #80 (permalink)
Bear Behind
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Yerp
Posts: 348
Quote:
Like all conspiracy theoreis, what starts as one simple incident, gets snowballed out of all proportion due to soemone (generally who desperatly wants to belive something in the first place) adds 2 and 2 togther, and makes a huge number. For what it is worth, and people who believe the conspiracy theory will not believe me, I worked at Boscombe at that time and can perhaps shed sone light on some of the bits of the equation:

1. There was an incident on a Tornado which was doing trilas with a towed decoy, which failed to retract, hence the shutting of the main road outside the base.
2. There are generally American exchange pilots at Boscombe (at the time, it was Rick Husband I think, the shuttle commander during the Colombia accident).
3. A C5 was at Boscombe to take (or bring back) a helicopter from AUTEC.
4. The unmarked Boeing 707 was an Italian Air Force tanker at Boscombe for AAR trials.
5. The Agusta 109 was at Boscombe for trials.
6. The Gulfstream was a VIP aircraft. (Interesting aside. It was Tom Cruise visting Nicole Kidman who was in the local area making a film. Heale House- Portrait of a Lady).
7. The rolling deck was just being delivered from Bedford. Covered in tarpaulin.

All of these things happened in the space of a few days. As I said 2+2 is a huge number

Guess that puts that one to bed, then.

Like I said, it's a long time since I saw the article but I do have it at home somewhere. It's more a case of 2+2+2+1 making a very big number. If a conspiracy theorist wanted to make something of it, then you can see how it might happen with an addled (beer infused?) brain.

Do I believe in UFOs? Absolutely yes.

By definition if an object is flying and I can't identify it, then to me it is a UFO. If someone else can identify it, then no, it's not a UFO to them.

Do I believe in little green men? No.

Do I believe there are other life forms out there? Maybe. But what I do believe is that it's very arrogant of our species to believe that no other intelligent life can exist out there.

Is their technology being used in Aurora? Erm, no.

p-k-b
panda-k-bear is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT. The time now is 05:17.


© 1996-2012 The Professional Pilots Rumour Network

SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1