787 DreamLiner
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787 DreamLiner
as the date of release is nearing is it going to be as boeing predicts is going to be and will it be vunrable to lightning stricks as it is the world first totaly composit aircraft
Warning Toxic!
Disgusted of Tunbridge
Disgusted of Tunbridge
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The guy's using English as a foreign language- how would your questions look in Arabic chaps? Good on him- he made his meaning known, and deserves a sensible answer. What bugs me are the English people here who have completed umpteen years of education (that I paid for) and still can't differentiate between there, their or they're. Now that's an offence!
So q80airbus- these composites are carbon fibre. Carbon fibre has been in service for years, mainly in flight controls. It's qualities are well known in lightning strikes. This aeroplane will have more than any other civil transport. The FAA would only certificate this aeroplane if it was completely confident that it was safe and the damage and lightning repair damage qualities were well known. As pointed out, military aeroplanes are ahead of civil in this area, so it is not an unknown quality. Also, people have full trust in Boeing knowing what they're doing- they did after all produce that work of art, the B747!
So q80airbus- these composites are carbon fibre. Carbon fibre has been in service for years, mainly in flight controls. It's qualities are well known in lightning strikes. This aeroplane will have more than any other civil transport. The FAA would only certificate this aeroplane if it was completely confident that it was safe and the damage and lightning repair damage qualities were well known. As pointed out, military aeroplanes are ahead of civil in this area, so it is not an unknown quality. Also, people have full trust in Boeing knowing what they're doing- they did after all produce that work of art, the B747!
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787/ Dreamliner
Heard a murmer today that FCA have pulled their option for the new aircraft and that possibly MON/ZB have taken it. This will mean that they will be one of the first to fly it.....
Can anyone confirm?????
Can anyone confirm?????
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FCA isn't an 'option' as such. They have firm contracts for the 787, as a launch customer, and also with GE for the GEnx.
Monarch have specified the Trent 1000 on theirs. The two would be incompatible. As TUI are currently doing a fleet renewal exercise, which will include the Thomsonfly (and therefore First Choice) operation I would think it is completely unfounded for several good reasons.
Monarch have specified the Trent 1000 on theirs. The two would be incompatible. As TUI are currently doing a fleet renewal exercise, which will include the Thomsonfly (and therefore First Choice) operation I would think it is completely unfounded for several good reasons.
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Afraid it doesn't work like that. The options are options to purchase that must either be exercised (converted into firm orders for that customer), or they lapse by an agreed date. The customer has no ownership and cannot sell this type of option to purchase.
So all a lot of hot air. Both FCA and Monarch have firm orders for the 787 and both have additional options to purchase as set down in their respective purchase contracts.
Scarebus 321 keep dreaming ( about the dreamliner ) the 350 isn't coming anytime soon, and the Boeing options cannot be sold. Don't you have a Malaga or a Faro you should be doing ?
So all a lot of hot air. Both FCA and Monarch have firm orders for the 787 and both have additional options to purchase as set down in their respective purchase contracts.
Scarebus 321 keep dreaming ( about the dreamliner ) the 350 isn't coming anytime soon, and the Boeing options cannot be sold. Don't you have a Malaga or a Faro you should be doing ?
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The reason Monarch did not go with the A350 was the version Monarch was looking at was going to be the second version to be launched, so 2014 was the earliest it would be available, if then.
If you look TUI have already ordered the B787, so maybe the FCA ones are due about the same time as TUIs so are surplus to requirements, but it could all be just a "RUMOUR".
If you look TUI have already ordered the B787, so maybe the FCA ones are due about the same time as TUIs so are surplus to requirements, but it could all be just a "RUMOUR".
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Interesting discussion.... I would have thought that so far as orders by FCA, TOM or TUI are concerned they are being treated as separate discrete entities for now.
Also there has been no discussion of a fleet contraction. In fact I believe TUI travel was quoted in the last press release on the merger saying it will have 23 787. By my calculations that would include the current lauch options FCA have and the "undisclosed" order that TUI AG placed for the 787 sometime this or last year.
As the press release would indicate one would expect the FCA order to eventually come within the scope of the new TUI Travel PLC order. But I fear that seeing as Tflys own MD didn't know about the merger before the announcement I can't imagine that Tui Airline Management will have consolidated any aircraft orders just yet!!
Plus the takeover of LTU by Air Berlin now presents a quandry for the German market. Currently the TUI Long haul is provided mainly by LTU in Germany but I doubt this will continue for much longer.....watch this space.
Also there has been no discussion of a fleet contraction. In fact I believe TUI travel was quoted in the last press release on the merger saying it will have 23 787. By my calculations that would include the current lauch options FCA have and the "undisclosed" order that TUI AG placed for the 787 sometime this or last year.
As the press release would indicate one would expect the FCA order to eventually come within the scope of the new TUI Travel PLC order. But I fear that seeing as Tflys own MD didn't know about the merger before the announcement I can't imagine that Tui Airline Management will have consolidated any aircraft orders just yet!!
Plus the takeover of LTU by Air Berlin now presents a quandry for the German market. Currently the TUI Long haul is provided mainly by LTU in Germany but I doubt this will continue for much longer.....watch this space.
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It is not the issue of carbon-fibre but to be certified, it must demonstrate the ability to take strikes without negative effects. Lightning is considered part of the operating environment, like ice, and thus for the airplane to achieve FAA and JAA cert, it must pass lightning certification.
WIth carbon fibre airplanes, often manufacturers will embed mesh into the structure to help keep the lightning on the surface and to bleed it away from the more critical components. Also, things like computers and such are put in hardened sites to protect and shield them from strikes.
Interesting is to learn there are Negative Strikes and a Positive Strike, not that you have any choice. But the Positive Strike (singular) is estimated to be about 10 times more powerful than the negative strikes (plural)
When you land, if you have pitted surfaces, it was negative. If you have parts missing, it may have been a positive.
WIth carbon fibre airplanes, often manufacturers will embed mesh into the structure to help keep the lightning on the surface and to bleed it away from the more critical components. Also, things like computers and such are put in hardened sites to protect and shield them from strikes.
Interesting is to learn there are Negative Strikes and a Positive Strike, not that you have any choice. But the Positive Strike (singular) is estimated to be about 10 times more powerful than the negative strikes (plural)
When you land, if you have pitted surfaces, it was negative. If you have parts missing, it may have been a positive.
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Originally Posted by A380focal
It's only the first fully composite airliner - there a plenty of fully composite military planes - the B2 bomber, the eurofighter for example....
Both of these examples are constructed from conventional materials under the skin (aluminium, steel & titanium etc), and have carbon fibre and other composite panels and structures attached (e.g canards, intakes, nose cones, wing panels, leading edges, moving surfaces etc).
The B-2 also has a composite-laced paint sprayed over it (you should smell the solvents in the curing hangar...PHEW!)
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Afraid it doesn't work like that. The options are options to purchase that must either be exercised (converted into firm orders for that customer), or they lapse by an agreed date. The customer has no ownership and cannot sell this type of option to purchase.
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First 787 Shots!!
The first shots of the 787, she's finally complete!!
http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/3478111/
Regards,
JetsetJ
http://www.airliners.net/discussions....main/3478111/
Regards,
JetsetJ
Paxing All Over The World
Yet another bloated twin in the series that started with the 767. The age of designing beautiful commercial aircraft must be over.
