A 380 (Merged)
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747 Focal, I'd just say it's usual bad journalism. I live about 8 km from Toulouse airport and what they're saying here (and witin Airbus is roll out on Jan 18 2005, first flight by March...
http://www.thisisbristol.com/display...entPK=11370389
Bristol Evening Post
11:00 - 24 November 2004
The world will get its first sight of what makers Airbus say is the future of air travel when the double decker A380 is unveiled, complete, in January. The Evening Post got a sneak preview yesterday at the final assembly line in Toulouse. Business editor CHLOE RIGBY reports
On January 18, 2005, the next big thing in air travel will be revealed to a waiting public. That is when the covers will come off A380 number 001, at the Toulouse site where it is currently in final assembly.
The maiden flight of that first completed double decker passenger jet will take place a few weeks later, on a date yet to be set but forecast to be in the first three months of next year.
The superjumbo A380 has been in the planning for years but now makers Airbus, who employ about 5,000 people at Filton, are almost ready to show off their new flagship plane - one they say will help meet the growing public demand for long-distance air travel at affordable prices.
Airbus UK managing director Iain Gray said: "It is the product out of all of our range that people will identify and recognise in the air - it is the dawning of a new era."
He added: "It is terrific to work on - it is the best.
"The is the largest and the best project going on in commercial aerospace and it is great to be part of that. It is so exciting."
The thinking behind the new £11 billion plane-building programme is that the number of people flying will rise by five per cent a year in the next 20 years and that, at the same time, ticket prices will continue to fall.
To put that many passengers on the type of planes currently in service would create congestion in the air and exceed the capacity of most modern airports. So the Airbus solution is to build bigger planes.
"One of the problems the A380 will solve most significantly is that of congestion," says Corrin Higgs, senior marketing analyst at Airbus.
"Airports such as Heathrow, JFK and Narita, Tokyo, are all congested because people want to fly there - they have large, wealthy populations.
"But they were built many years ago to take a relatively small amount of passenger traffic.
"It is not easy to allow more flights to take off from these airports, so having larger planes is one answer.
"Another would be to have larger airports outside cities, but that is very unpopular with the people who live where those airports would be."
Heathrow planning and development director Eryl Smith has said he believes that the forecast 60,000 A380 flights in and out of the airport each year by 2016 would allow nearly 10 million more passengers to fly to and from the airport with no increase in flights.
The A380 is also about cutting costs: it is reckoned to be fuel efficient, quiet and with lower emissions than the rival Boeing 747-400. One of the two optional engines for the plane is the new Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine, certificated two weeks ago and produced at the Bristol employer's Derby site.
Airbus says the plane will consume three litres of fuel per person every 100 kilometres.
That kind of cost saving statistic leads in turn to cheaper ticket prices.
Mr Higgs said: "Airlines face a constant fall in ticket prices of one to two per cent a year.
"Airlines must cut their costs more than that or they get to the point where you can't sell the seat for what it costs you."
At the same time it will carry up to 555 people in a two-deck layout on 14-hour flights.
It is also, say Airbus directors, very significant for advanced engineering in the UK and Europe.
Brian Fleet, head of the wing centre of excellence at Filton and Broughton, said: "Some of the best manufacturing engineers in the world are here.
"There is nothing that can compare in terms of size.
"Aerospace really is an area where we can say we are a leader, and Airbus is the leader in the field."
That will be reflected, he says, when the company's turnover rises to £24.5 billion to £28 billion (35 to 40 billion euros) from the current £21 billion (30 billion euros), making it Europe's biggest manufacturer.
At the same time its deliveries will rise from current levels of just over 300 aircraft last year to 450 in 2006, and increasing.
Concorde was also produced in Filton, where today 1,000 of the 5,000 employees at the site are working on the wings, landing gear and fuel systems.
In terms of value, 20 per cent of the plane will be built in the UK, and where Rolls-Royce engines are used, that will rise to 35 per cent.
Over the next four years, the speed of A380 production will rise to 48 a year.
Work is going on in one of Europe's largest industrial buildings - the hangar where work on six planes is currently under way measures 250 metres wide, by 490 metres long and 46 metres high.
Of the planes inside, two are static test planes, while the MSN001 will be the first to fly next year, followed by the MSN004 and the MSN002. The MSN007 will be the first into commercial service, with Singapore Airlines, a year later.
US rival Boeing has countered Airbus' argument in favour of larger aeroplanes with its belief in faster travel - it is now developing the 7E7 Dreamliner, which it says will be faster, although smaller.
But Airbus appears to be carrying the day, with 139 firm orders and commitments from 13 airlines for the A380 and the freighter version of the plane.
The first airline to fly it will be Singapore Airlines, in the second quarter of 2006, but other buyers include Air France, Korean Air, Virgin Atlantic, Emirates and Qantas.
Between them, those airlines expect it to be flying on routes to 60 airports by 2010, including Heathrow and possibly Manchester, and that more operators, including the yet-to-sign-up British Airways, will decide to take it on once they have seen it in action.
Indeed, Airbus sees every airline flying Boeing 747s as a potential customer for the A380, which comes with a list price of £181.9 million.
Bristol Evening Post
11:00 - 24 November 2004
The world will get its first sight of what makers Airbus say is the future of air travel when the double decker A380 is unveiled, complete, in January. The Evening Post got a sneak preview yesterday at the final assembly line in Toulouse. Business editor CHLOE RIGBY reports
On January 18, 2005, the next big thing in air travel will be revealed to a waiting public. That is when the covers will come off A380 number 001, at the Toulouse site where it is currently in final assembly.
The maiden flight of that first completed double decker passenger jet will take place a few weeks later, on a date yet to be set but forecast to be in the first three months of next year.
The superjumbo A380 has been in the planning for years but now makers Airbus, who employ about 5,000 people at Filton, are almost ready to show off their new flagship plane - one they say will help meet the growing public demand for long-distance air travel at affordable prices.
Airbus UK managing director Iain Gray said: "It is the product out of all of our range that people will identify and recognise in the air - it is the dawning of a new era."
He added: "It is terrific to work on - it is the best.
"The is the largest and the best project going on in commercial aerospace and it is great to be part of that. It is so exciting."
The thinking behind the new £11 billion plane-building programme is that the number of people flying will rise by five per cent a year in the next 20 years and that, at the same time, ticket prices will continue to fall.
To put that many passengers on the type of planes currently in service would create congestion in the air and exceed the capacity of most modern airports. So the Airbus solution is to build bigger planes.
"One of the problems the A380 will solve most significantly is that of congestion," says Corrin Higgs, senior marketing analyst at Airbus.
"Airports such as Heathrow, JFK and Narita, Tokyo, are all congested because people want to fly there - they have large, wealthy populations.
"But they were built many years ago to take a relatively small amount of passenger traffic.
"It is not easy to allow more flights to take off from these airports, so having larger planes is one answer.
"Another would be to have larger airports outside cities, but that is very unpopular with the people who live where those airports would be."
Heathrow planning and development director Eryl Smith has said he believes that the forecast 60,000 A380 flights in and out of the airport each year by 2016 would allow nearly 10 million more passengers to fly to and from the airport with no increase in flights.
The A380 is also about cutting costs: it is reckoned to be fuel efficient, quiet and with lower emissions than the rival Boeing 747-400. One of the two optional engines for the plane is the new Rolls-Royce Trent 900 engine, certificated two weeks ago and produced at the Bristol employer's Derby site.
Airbus says the plane will consume three litres of fuel per person every 100 kilometres.
That kind of cost saving statistic leads in turn to cheaper ticket prices.
Mr Higgs said: "Airlines face a constant fall in ticket prices of one to two per cent a year.
"Airlines must cut their costs more than that or they get to the point where you can't sell the seat for what it costs you."
At the same time it will carry up to 555 people in a two-deck layout on 14-hour flights.
It is also, say Airbus directors, very significant for advanced engineering in the UK and Europe.
Brian Fleet, head of the wing centre of excellence at Filton and Broughton, said: "Some of the best manufacturing engineers in the world are here.
"There is nothing that can compare in terms of size.
"Aerospace really is an area where we can say we are a leader, and Airbus is the leader in the field."
That will be reflected, he says, when the company's turnover rises to £24.5 billion to £28 billion (35 to 40 billion euros) from the current £21 billion (30 billion euros), making it Europe's biggest manufacturer.
At the same time its deliveries will rise from current levels of just over 300 aircraft last year to 450 in 2006, and increasing.
Concorde was also produced in Filton, where today 1,000 of the 5,000 employees at the site are working on the wings, landing gear and fuel systems.
In terms of value, 20 per cent of the plane will be built in the UK, and where Rolls-Royce engines are used, that will rise to 35 per cent.
Over the next four years, the speed of A380 production will rise to 48 a year.
Work is going on in one of Europe's largest industrial buildings - the hangar where work on six planes is currently under way measures 250 metres wide, by 490 metres long and 46 metres high.
Of the planes inside, two are static test planes, while the MSN001 will be the first to fly next year, followed by the MSN004 and the MSN002. The MSN007 will be the first into commercial service, with Singapore Airlines, a year later.
US rival Boeing has countered Airbus' argument in favour of larger aeroplanes with its belief in faster travel - it is now developing the 7E7 Dreamliner, which it says will be faster, although smaller.
But Airbus appears to be carrying the day, with 139 firm orders and commitments from 13 airlines for the A380 and the freighter version of the plane.
The first airline to fly it will be Singapore Airlines, in the second quarter of 2006, but other buyers include Air France, Korean Air, Virgin Atlantic, Emirates and Qantas.
Between them, those airlines expect it to be flying on routes to 60 airports by 2010, including Heathrow and possibly Manchester, and that more operators, including the yet-to-sign-up British Airways, will decide to take it on once they have seen it in action.
Indeed, Airbus sees every airline flying Boeing 747s as a potential customer for the A380, which comes with a list price of £181.9 million.
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hi Toulouse,
please keep us updated if you find out more about the first flight. although i fly a boeing i wouldn't miss to see it in the world
. its gonna be a great aircraft. 
please keep us updated if you find out more about the first flight. although i fly a boeing i wouldn't miss to see it in the world
. its gonna be a great aircraft.
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Sure thing Flyingbeetle. Whenever I hear anything about a confirmed date for first flight I'll let you know.
Toulouse is a nice place to visit. I'm alreday worrying about the logistics of seeing the 380's first flight as Toulouse is alreday filled with aviation entusiasts an well as professionals and even on a quiet day things get quite busy by the viewing areas of Toulouse Blagnac's runways, and the day of the 3870's first flight should be a BUSY one.
Toulouse is a nice place to visit. I'm alreday worrying about the logistics of seeing the 380's first flight as Toulouse is alreday filled with aviation entusiasts an well as professionals and even on a quiet day things get quite busy by the viewing areas of Toulouse Blagnac's runways, and the day of the 3870's first flight should be a BUSY one.
"The INTRODUCER"
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
It is certainly a candid admission of where the fundamental risk strategies employed by Airbus regarding the balance of design freeze versus production simply did not work out. Although the final customers may be commercially on the hook for some of the delays and cost generated by changing the specification or requirement after the freeze point, ultimately it is Airbus' name that gets the hammering and the shareholders who pay the price. Although Airbus have apparently relied on extensive use of Computer Aided Design and Manufacture, it is a salutary lesson that the realities of life are often more unpredictable or random than any computer modelling can be.
Trash du Blanc
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As painful and expensive as it is, a full flight test program that was completed before locking in the design would have spared them all of this. A lesson learned every generation in this business. I cut my teeth in th eighties at Lockheed, and heard water-cooler tales of the C-5A program's disasterous FT program (~16 aircraft were concurrently in various stages of production, with design changes issued daily as tests showed problems....)
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Body Gear Steering.
A little French bird told me, very recently, that the primary problems with the A380 are not the electrics or changed specifications at all, that is just a smoke screen which enables Airbus to put part of the blame on the customers as it is not totally untrue.
The primary problem, I was told, is that the aircraft cannot safely taxy as Airbus refused to pay Boeing for the patent to a steerable body gear and now they are suffering as they simply cannot get it safely around the corners at many of the intended airports, JFK springs to mind.
Don't shoot the messenger!
The primary problem, I was told, is that the aircraft cannot safely taxy as Airbus refused to pay Boeing for the patent to a steerable body gear and now they are suffering as they simply cannot get it safely around the corners at many of the intended airports, JFK springs to mind.
Don't shoot the messenger!
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parabellum
I wood think Boeings body gear steering was patented nearly 40 years ago? I thought US patents only lasted from 14 to 20 years (distinct from copyright that can last up to 120 years). I think your "french" connection is spreading furphies!
TH
I wood think Boeings body gear steering was patented nearly 40 years ago? I thought US patents only lasted from 14 to 20 years (distinct from copyright that can last up to 120 years). I think your "french" connection is spreading furphies!
TH
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Like I said - Don't shoot the messenger.
Apparently it can make it round the corners OK at light weights but when any reasonable load is carried it puts unacceptable loads on the u/c and scrubs the tyres to bits, so I have been told.
As far as patents go can't comment but if I had been Boeing I would have made some improvements to the system along the way, especially when the -400F came out, and re-patented it.
Apparently it can make it round the corners OK at light weights but when any reasonable load is carried it puts unacceptable loads on the u/c and scrubs the tyres to bits, so I have been told.
As far as patents go can't comment but if I had been Boeing I would have made some improvements to the system along the way, especially when the -400F came out, and re-patented it.
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Gear problems
We had a briefing recently with one of the test pilots.
According to him there is no such problem whatsoever.
The A380 can operate out of any airport which can
handle a 747.
According to him there is no such problem whatsoever.
The A380 can operate out of any airport which can
handle a 747.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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Well that's OK then - just as long as it can exit on a 45 degree fast exit and make a 135 degree turn on to the parrallel no problem as rolling to the end every time isn't really an option.
Funny though, it was an Airbus Industries pilot that I was talking to!
Funny though, it was an Airbus Industries pilot that I was talking to!
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Originally Posted by parabellum
Like I said - Don't shoot the messenger.
Apparently it can make it round the corners OK at light weights but when any reasonable load is carried it puts unacceptable loads on the u/c and scrubs the tyres to bits, so I have been told.
As far as patents go can't comment but if I had been Boeing I would have made some improvements to the system along the way, especially when the -400F came out, and re-patented it.
Apparently it can make it round the corners OK at light weights but when any reasonable load is carried it puts unacceptable loads on the u/c and scrubs the tyres to bits, so I have been told.
As far as patents go can't comment but if I had been Boeing I would have made some improvements to the system along the way, especially when the -400F came out, and re-patented it.
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A2QFI
The images of the tyre scrubbing was a test that had the castoring third axle locked and then towed to the maximum "towing" limits. The tyres did not come off the rims. The story is in Flight International and when I locate the link I will post it for you.
parabellum
The danger of repeating "I heard such and such" without applying intellectual rigger is of course getting shot
- particularly on pprune. However, I did not shoot you, only provide a balanced question to test the integrity of the original source.
Cheers
TH
The images of the tyre scrubbing was a test that had the castoring third axle locked and then towed to the maximum "towing" limits. The tyres did not come off the rims. The story is in Flight International and when I locate the link I will post it for you.
parabellum
The danger of repeating "I heard such and such" without applying intellectual rigger is of course getting shot
- particularly on pprune. However, I did not shoot you, only provide a balanced question to test the integrity of the original source.Cheers
TH
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Originally Posted by Trash Hauler
parabellum
I wood think Boeings body gear steering was patented nearly 40 years ago? I thought US patents only lasted from 14 to 20 years (distinct from copyright that can last up to 120 years). I think your "french" connection is spreading furphies!
TH
I wood think Boeings body gear steering was patented nearly 40 years ago? I thought US patents only lasted from 14 to 20 years (distinct from copyright that can last up to 120 years). I think your "french" connection is spreading furphies!
TH
Also little tweaks might be patentable and then there's design protection.
Easier to just cough up!! IF that is the problem.