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Oh No! Its St Maarten time again

Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner) If you're not a professional pilot but want to discuss issues about the job, this is the best place to loiter. You won't be moved on by 'security' and there'll be plenty of experts to answer any questions.

Oh No! Its St Maarten time again

Old 4th Feb 2008, 07:30
  #161 (permalink)  
 
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Cant believe your all nit picking over a scanned image, its the same aircraft that does it almost everyday, if you moved the camera to where the left scooter is and took the same picture as it came over the car you would probably see the aircraft was 20+ft when it went over it - aircraft come over the bend of that road anywhere "from" very close to "going around" because they are too high.

Based on little or no wind the preference is always a 10 approach being as there is no go around option from 28, which in turn sometimes leads to a more demanding approach as the speed / TDP is critical, also depending on how many pax you have in the 208 depends on how high you can be over that road...

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Old 4th Feb 2008, 07:31
  #162 (permalink)  
 
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No idea why they wanted to mess with Photoshop like this; especially as there are many spectacular photos of (genuine) approaches available, but it has most certainly been 'manipulated'.

For instance, aside from the missing portion of front wheel of the bike on the left, said bike is very obviously a cut/paste from elsewhere. Just look carefully at the trees/bushes all round it (especially just behind the rear tyre). Definitely a lift from another photo. In which case, how can we believe that the a/c is exactly in the position that it was photographed at?

In other words, since they chose to fake the bike, it is likely that most of the rest is also fake. Perhaps the guy (a journo?) posing on the foreground scooter is the only genuine element?

Yes it is a nit pick; but why did they not just take a genuine photo?
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 07:32
  #163 (permalink)  
 
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Guptar,

Yes, as far as I am aware, you may not land at St. Barth's without a check ride in the first instance. I will find you the link with the advice this evening.
I have flown into St. Barth's twice in the Air Caraibes Caravan 'JO and it is a terrific experience. You certainly respect the ability of the chaps in the l/h seat. The flight from Sint Maarten is relaxed - but from a mile out, the concentration grows....
I have a photo of a local plane spotter parked in a vehicle in that exact spot as the Daily Mail photo - thought the chap was a complete idiot.

There is a flying club on the island with C.172 and 182 and am trying to arrange a trip with them - just got to make an app to Rwy 10.

There is a Memorial located on the hill to the left of the approach - the reason I am sure is obvious.

There are windsocks left and right on either hill on the approach to Rwy 10 and they invariably blow in opposite directions.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 07:34
  #164 (permalink)  
 
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As a Photoshop professional (http://www.montrealfood.com/retouch/) I can guarantee that this is a complete phony. One doesn't even need to be a Photoshop professional to see that the complete setup is ridiculous: the plane's trajectory would send it careening into the ground long before the runway; the shadows of everyone except the plane are heavily angled towards the horizon; the reflections on the fuselage are completely different than reality . . . need I go on? It's a completely amateur job, not even worthy of discussion. Is it POSSIBLE that planes come in this low at this particular airport? Well, look at the photo at http://www.airliners.net/open.file/199562/M/ for proof that all things are possible (that photo is definitely not doctored).

But THIS particular photo has been amateurishly thrown together by a Photoshop wannabe.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 08:51
  #165 (permalink)  
 
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I pretty sure that somewhere I've seen a photo showing a DC3/Dakota at St Barts. It might have been on Airliners.NET. However, I don't think they used 10 but came in the other way over the water to 29.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 08:59
  #166 (permalink)  
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Lots of great photos out there!

http://www.airliners.net/open.file?i...ext_id=1053485

Duck!!!!

(O.K. it isn't a duck it is a BN-2A Islander)

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Old 4th Feb 2008, 09:10
  #167 (permalink)  
 
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Is it me, or in the first video does the pilot land short of the displaced threshold? Then in a further video there is no displaced threshold.....

Landing short of a displaced threshold in this kind of place would seem a little strange (although I can quite understand the urge!)

PP
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 09:40
  #168 (permalink)  
 
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Morning all!

Have had a good look at this one and I agree that it has been 'doctored'.

Shouldn't there should be at least some shadow cast by the tail or right wing somewhere in the photo - possibly a shadow on the Mini?

The moped in the foreground is stationary - stand is down. (already mentioned). The moped on the left is pasted. Look at the white line on the road. The Mini is sationary at the side of the road in a lay-by.

Does any one know the diameter of the Cessna's main wheels? They appear to be the same as the Mini in the photo. This would give a clue as to whether the 'plane has yet to pass the car.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 09:51
  #169 (permalink)  
 
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Snoop

No Photoshop; the anomaly on the left side of the picture is probably just a case of bad cropping.

Bad cropping and as Soggy Cabbage points out, no prop blur, and stationary spokes. Anyone who thinks this photo is genuine is on mars. I take photos of motorsport and aircraft.
To stop a motorcycle's spokes you need a fast shutter speed, in this case 1/800th sec


To blur an aircraft propellor, or wheel spokes for that matter, you need a slow shutter speed, here 1/90th sec. Note aircraft is landing, props have dissapeared, just like the example of the 'real' landing.

Both taken in similar conditions, close ISO's. So you can't get one of each on the same photo. That photo is not real.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 10:10
  #170 (permalink)  
 
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Thank you linesmen, thank you ballboys. Game, set & match to SF.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 10:18
  #171 (permalink)  
 
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No doubt it is a hairy approach, but that particular photograph looks very photoshopped!

As for macho guy not looking at the a/c as he ducks... maybe that can be explained because of the way his arms are positioned on the bike... it would take some effort to crane your neck round and up to look at the aircraft and is not wha would happen biometrically if you were to duck as a reflex.

The left of the photo is not a result of bad cropping - it screams of cut and paste or bad use of the 'dodge' tool or other such item.

The shadows do not tally on the aircraft compared to the ground vehicles.

Not only is the photo doctored, but it's been done by an amateur.... ties in with it being in the Daily Mail I suppose
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 10:43
  #172 (permalink)  
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Smile

This is/was still a good thread though. Because of it I now know a little bit about a place I had never knew existed.

I can understand why it is a great place to go for a holiday, one sun is at 5 o'clock low when the other sun is at 10 o'clock high.

You get a nice even tan that way.......



Seriously, threads like this one make me think and do research. I really feel I learned something today.

Last edited by soggy_cabbage; 4th Feb 2008 at 10:44. Reason: speling, I never will learn to spel.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 11:12
  #173 (permalink)  
 
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Photo Shop Job Nah, Just compare the sizes, wing span to the car I would like to park my Mini under them wings one day woohoo

Back to my Sheep and Pint now
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 13:05
  #174 (permalink)  
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IF that approach was real the next touchdown would not be the runway but the car. No pilot worth his sort (OR his job) would make such an approach. And do you really think the authorities would allow cars to be uncontrolled on that road if that could happen?

If you look at all the vids you will clearly see that there is useful height as they cross the threshold. Very little power - just riding it down.

As for a 'special licence' I think they mean trainers made sure their pilots can operate safely in and out!!

FWIW - for me it is a fake.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 18:00
  #175 (permalink)  
 
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I spend much of my professional life using Photoshop. I spend much of it working with the press. I've also got a shrewd idea of the relative wheel sizes used by Minis, motorcycles and the Caravan. The next frame should have captured impact betwixt Mini and aircraft.

The Daily Mail - that fearlessly crusading newspaper, famed for the exposure of fraud and fakery - owes an explanation (as does the photo agency, Rex??).

The public should be told.
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 21:45
  #176 (permalink)  
 
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Whether it's a fake or not it is a great pic and makes me want to go there myself to check it out.

Bet the guy in the mini wishes he'd put the roof up (or got a hard top!!!)

SB
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Old 4th Feb 2008, 23:37
  #177 (permalink)  
 
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Sent the "Mail" a comment telling them what a bollux the photo was. Surprise, surprise they saw fit not to post the comment. Says it all really.
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Old 5th Feb 2008, 03:06
  #178 (permalink)  
 
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I would venture to say the pic is real, have about 7 years exp flying in and out of that strip, some guys have hairier B*&%SS than others, this one was low with no margin for gusts or sudden deviation below the nominal approach.
Sure was fun tho, Take off's one direction only ,landings from both ends if the wind was ok.

X (edited for spelling, 2am departures are killing what little brain cells I have left!)
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Old 5th Feb 2008, 05:26
  #179 (permalink)  
 
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If you still don't believe this is a poorly doctored photo, just enlarge the shadow in front of the Mini and explain why the runway markings a mile away overlap the road!
I also queried the authenticity on the Mail's comment site and was also apparently censored. A small issue but a great reminder that for some of our journalist colleagues the truth seldom gets in the way of a good story!

Last edited by Max Tow; 5th Feb 2008 at 05:51.
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Old 5th Feb 2008, 05:46
  #180 (permalink)  
 
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The front of the moped is edited. Download the image and blow it up. There is a line of contrast that extends straight down from the front wheel. It is a pretty low rez image but when blown up, the pixelization of the aircraft looks to be a lot less that some of the surrounding image, especially the fin and elevators.
I'm in the camp that feels it is a composite.
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