BA633, Return to Athens - now a story!
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\"....the pilots err on the side of caution every time, which is the right thing to do.\"
Rainboe and Topbunk have expert credentials that I lack, but the application of basic common sense and logic shows your comment on the quote to be false.
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Can you imagine being a PPruNe Mod and having to trawl through this sort of $$$$ every day
I didn't think I would, but now 'de boss' has donated this conjoined (see - got a dictionary for Xmas) thread to us, and............................
........ SG you are absolutely correct - the flight numbers (see - I have trawled
) show the merge. I believe the LHR BA633 was a 767 and the LGW 2643 (EDIT:SKG) was indeed a 737. All complaints to the senior management please. Probably got the specs misted up from too much of the good stuff.Huh! We don't moderate a 'spotters' forum for nothing, err.......or do we...................
Where's my last pay-slip from Danny?
Last edited by BOAC; 29th Dec 2005 at 11:01.
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Topbunk - thanks for info (not quite sure you have to insult me
). Could I ask you to define PNR for a 4-engined aircraft? There is a slight risk I was spouting rubbish!
Rainboe - thanks for considered and reasonable response.
). Could I ask you to define PNR for a 4-engined aircraft? There is a slight risk I was spouting rubbish!Rainboe - thanks for considered and reasonable response.
Bus, I don't see how you were spouting rubbish. PNR depends on fuel and distance, no matter how many engines you've got. Topbunk, there can be all sorts of reasons for turning back apart from an engine failure. If you are going from A to B, then the point where you no longer have fuel to get back to A is PNR. If you can go all the way from A to B and back again, then there is no PNR.
And whats this "even you may understand"? No need to be grumpy - season of goodwill, what?
And whats this "even you may understand"? No need to be grumpy - season of goodwill, what?
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Thanks, keithl.
I appreciate Rainboe's point of view and his environmental concerns. I feel, however, that the 747 should have turned back. The failure of one engine may have been a link in the chain of an accident.
With regard to the A319 electrical power anomaly, the aircraft should have "Landed ASAP". A UK charter airline had a similar incident in 1998 with an A320 during take-off. The AAIB were very concerned about that incident as well. Their concerns centred on the technical failures rather than crew actions.
I appreciate Rainboe's point of view and his environmental concerns. I feel, however, that the 747 should have turned back. The failure of one engine may have been a link in the chain of an accident.
With regard to the A319 electrical power anomaly, the aircraft should have "Landed ASAP". A UK charter airline had a similar incident in 1998 with an A320 during take-off. The AAIB were very concerned about that incident as well. Their concerns centred on the technical failures rather than crew actions.
You're welcome, Bus, however I won't join you in second-guessing the 747 decision.
I've flown 4-engine aircraft over the Atlantic, too, but under very different rules. On the Nimrod, we used to shut down 2 engines for fuel economy (they still do), then light 'em up again for the return home. That wouldn't translate to Commercial Air Transport but it does illustrate the low risk nature of the situation.
Some statisticians might argue that having had the one-in-whatever-it-is chance of failure actually happen, the chances of another one going are impossibly remote.
Yes, I know about the 747 4-engine flameout, but still...
I've flown 4-engine aircraft over the Atlantic, too, but under very different rules. On the Nimrod, we used to shut down 2 engines for fuel economy (they still do), then light 'em up again for the return home. That wouldn't translate to Commercial Air Transport but it does illustrate the low risk nature of the situation.
Some statisticians might argue that having had the one-in-whatever-it-is chance of failure actually happen, the chances of another one going are impossibly remote.
Yes, I know about the 747 4-engine flameout, but still...
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I'd REALLY like to keep the 4-engine "is there a PNR" or "can we just run out of fuel/engines/cabin crew/electrics in our BA machine" discussion OFF this thread please as the 'saga' of the BA attempts to leave Greece develop.
Quite happy to split the thread so that our friends can carry on arguing about other issues, mind you!
Quite happy to split the thread so that our friends can carry on arguing about other issues, mind you!
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It is still a non-story. In fact BA did NOT return to ATH but to SKG instead. SKG is the IATA code for Thessaloniki Makedonia Int. Airport. Which is served by BA 737's..... BA flies to ATH manly with Airbusses or even heavier stuff.
KALH XPONIA QTA
KALH XPONIA QTA
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OK QTA - still 'trawling through'! Are you saying that this from 'Sensible Garage'
BA0633 ATH ATH 27 DEC 19:15 27 DEC 19:43 Actual
Was in fact the 2643 SKGLGW - or are we all tewibbli confused?
What did this mean?
BA0633 ATH LHR 27 DEC 21:15 28 DEC 11:51 Estimated
Did the 633 on 28/12 divert to FCO?
Who mentioned 'SKG'?
Is there really a Santa Claus?
PS I've edited my error on the Thess Iata code and now know that TSL is in Mexico
BA0633 ATH ATH 27 DEC 19:15 27 DEC 19:43 Actual
Was in fact the 2643 SKGLGW - or are we all tewibbli confused?
What did this mean?
BA0633 ATH LHR 27 DEC 21:15 28 DEC 11:51 Estimated
Did the 633 on 28/12 divert to FCO?
Who mentioned 'SKG'?
Is there really a Santa Claus?
PS I've edited my error on the Thess Iata code and now know that TSL is in Mexico
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YOU ARE RIGHT, I am sorry folks, got confused by all those BA flts returning to good old Greece, I knew the Brits had a crush for mother Hellas, but that it was so strong...................
Well I will not mix fts and fltnrs again after a Tsiporo
KALH XPONIA, QTA
Well I will not mix fts and fltnrs again after a Tsiporo
KALH XPONIA, QTA
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Re: BA633, Return to Athens - now a story!
BOAC tsipouro is a lovely alcoholic drink !!! usually olympic airways pilots drink it before the flights to keep it calm.. its a company poilicy i guess that is why we get all those high energy approaches!!! u should try but do not overdo it please... as far as the 633 on the 27th of dec yes it returned back to venizelos after a warning. i'm 100% sure about that but not sure about the problem.. happy new year !!!!!
Cheers pilot-320! I'll try to stick with slightly lower-energy approaches I think. It is amazing that I have never heard of it.
I took out an unecessary part of your post - I'm sure you will know why...........
Cheers pilot-320! I'll try to stick with slightly lower-energy approaches I think. It is amazing that I have never heard of it.
I took out an unecessary part of your post - I'm sure you will know why...........
