A350 approved by EADS & BAE shareholders
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A350 approved by EADS & BAE shareholders
Apparently EADS shareholders have approved the planned 350.
From the Airbus page (other news sources also carrying the story):
A350 RECEIVES “AUTHORISATION TO OFFER” (ATO)
DECEMBER 10, 2004
Airbus has received approval from its shareholders, EADS and BAE Systems to begin making firm commercial offers to launch customers for two new members of its wide-body Family. The new sisterships to the A330s, called “A350” models, respond to the market demand foreseen by Airbus customers, many of whom have expressed their interest in these new models and contributed to their definition.
Due to enter service in the first half of 2010, the A350 models will complement the existing Airbus A330 and A340 product line. Offering a maximum of operational commonality with the current A330/A340 line – including Common Type Rating with the A330 -, they complement the current A330-200 and –300 line, offering extended range in these seating categories.
“The long range market is becoming more segmented in terms of size and range. Airbus has listened to its customers, who were interested in the medium size category with greater range to complement their current Airbus wide-body Families. As a result of this demand, we are now pleased to offer the A350, which, in addition to its intrinsic characteristics, is in the unique position of being a full member of a comprehensive airliner family, hence benefiting from an unmatched level of commonality”, said Airbus President and CEO Noël Forgeard on the occasion of the announcement. “We are now in the unique position to satisfy all airlines’ demands in the long range sector, from the 250 seater to the high capacity A380."
The market for aircraft in the 250-300 seat category is estimated at some 3,100 new aircraft over the next 20 years, of which Airbus expects to get at least 50 per cent.
The A350 will be offered in two versions. The A350-800 will typically seat 245 passengers in a long range three class configuration and have a range in excess of 8,600 nm / 15,900 km) providing ultra long range capability in this “medium size” seating category, and offering the lowest seat mile costs for this less dense long range market. Seating 285 passengers in a similar configuration, the A350-900 will have a range of more than 7,500 nm / 13,900 km, allowing operators to benefit from exceptionally low unit costs in the most competitive mainstream markets.
The A350 models will benefit from technologies, materials and manufacturing processes used on the A380, and will draw from composite wing design and Airbus manufacturing know-how. Although eligible for a choice of engines, the initial A350s will be powered by two new generation General Electric engines which, thanks to new technologies, will generate a double-digit improvement in fuel efficiency.
A leading aircraft manufacturer with the most modern and comprehensive product line on the market, Airbus is a global company with design and manufacturing facilities in France, Germany, the UK, and Spain as well as subsidiaries in the U.S., China and Japan. Headquartered in Toulouse, France, Airbus is an EADS joint Company with BAE Systems.
Note to editors: A350, THE LONG RANGE MEDIUM CAPACITY TWIN
With the A330/A340 already commanding market leadership in the 240-380 seat category and the A380 dominating the market for larger aircraft, the A350-800 and A350-900 complement and enhance the flexibility offered across the Airbus long-range families.
The A350 will typically carry 245-285 passengers over distances of up to 8,600 nm (15,900 km), providing airlines with longer range versions of the A330, which already accounts for over 60% of this market sector and with which the A350 will share a single type rating for pilots. This means that pilots already qualified to fly the A330 will be able to switch to the A350 with no additional training. As the same commonality benefits also apply to maintenance and cabin crews, airlines can easily minimise crew costs and maximise operational flexibility.
From the Airbus page (other news sources also carrying the story):
A350 RECEIVES “AUTHORISATION TO OFFER” (ATO)
DECEMBER 10, 2004
Airbus has received approval from its shareholders, EADS and BAE Systems to begin making firm commercial offers to launch customers for two new members of its wide-body Family. The new sisterships to the A330s, called “A350” models, respond to the market demand foreseen by Airbus customers, many of whom have expressed their interest in these new models and contributed to their definition.
Due to enter service in the first half of 2010, the A350 models will complement the existing Airbus A330 and A340 product line. Offering a maximum of operational commonality with the current A330/A340 line – including Common Type Rating with the A330 -, they complement the current A330-200 and –300 line, offering extended range in these seating categories.
“The long range market is becoming more segmented in terms of size and range. Airbus has listened to its customers, who were interested in the medium size category with greater range to complement their current Airbus wide-body Families. As a result of this demand, we are now pleased to offer the A350, which, in addition to its intrinsic characteristics, is in the unique position of being a full member of a comprehensive airliner family, hence benefiting from an unmatched level of commonality”, said Airbus President and CEO Noël Forgeard on the occasion of the announcement. “We are now in the unique position to satisfy all airlines’ demands in the long range sector, from the 250 seater to the high capacity A380."
The market for aircraft in the 250-300 seat category is estimated at some 3,100 new aircraft over the next 20 years, of which Airbus expects to get at least 50 per cent.
The A350 will be offered in two versions. The A350-800 will typically seat 245 passengers in a long range three class configuration and have a range in excess of 8,600 nm / 15,900 km) providing ultra long range capability in this “medium size” seating category, and offering the lowest seat mile costs for this less dense long range market. Seating 285 passengers in a similar configuration, the A350-900 will have a range of more than 7,500 nm / 13,900 km, allowing operators to benefit from exceptionally low unit costs in the most competitive mainstream markets.
The A350 models will benefit from technologies, materials and manufacturing processes used on the A380, and will draw from composite wing design and Airbus manufacturing know-how. Although eligible for a choice of engines, the initial A350s will be powered by two new generation General Electric engines which, thanks to new technologies, will generate a double-digit improvement in fuel efficiency.
A leading aircraft manufacturer with the most modern and comprehensive product line on the market, Airbus is a global company with design and manufacturing facilities in France, Germany, the UK, and Spain as well as subsidiaries in the U.S., China and Japan. Headquartered in Toulouse, France, Airbus is an EADS joint Company with BAE Systems.
Note to editors: A350, THE LONG RANGE MEDIUM CAPACITY TWIN
With the A330/A340 already commanding market leadership in the 240-380 seat category and the A380 dominating the market for larger aircraft, the A350-800 and A350-900 complement and enhance the flexibility offered across the Airbus long-range families.
The A350 will typically carry 245-285 passengers over distances of up to 8,600 nm (15,900 km), providing airlines with longer range versions of the A330, which already accounts for over 60% of this market sector and with which the A350 will share a single type rating for pilots. This means that pilots already qualified to fly the A330 will be able to switch to the A350 with no additional training. As the same commonality benefits also apply to maintenance and cabin crews, airlines can easily minimise crew costs and maximise operational flexibility.
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I look forward to my next trip to TLS - sitting in the Bier Akademie watching A380s and A350s buzzing round - but will I be able to tell the difference between that and the A330?
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Fantastic news! Good to hear that the 7e7 will have some competition which is only a good thing for the pax and airlines.
Now I wonder who will launch it? - My bet is NWA,hope BAL get a few eventually as the last few 767s I went on with them =
Now I wonder who will launch it? - My bet is NWA,hope BAL get a few eventually as the last few 767s I went on with them =
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How the heck did this end up in Spotters Corner ...
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ght=airbus+350
anyway, Aer Lingus clearly have said within the above thread that they are interested in buying the 350
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ght=airbus+350
anyway, Aer Lingus clearly have said within the above thread that they are interested in buying the 350
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A330-300 @ 5600 nm -> A350-900 @ 7500 nm = +34% range
A330-200 @ 6700 nm -> A350-800 @ 8600 nm = +28% range
It will be interesting to see how Airbus will grow the range of the existing aircraft approximately thirty percent. The A330 is still a relatively new design (it was authorized in 1995, nine years ago) so to make this big an improvement in a relatively short period of time will be very impressive.
--ev--
A330-200 @ 6700 nm -> A350-800 @ 8600 nm = +28% range
It will be interesting to see how Airbus will grow the range of the existing aircraft approximately thirty percent. The A330 is still a relatively new design (it was authorized in 1995, nine years ago) so to make this big an improvement in a relatively short period of time will be very impressive.
--ev--
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Dunno where you got that from, the first member of the A330/A340 family flew at Farnborough '92, the family having been planned through the mid-eighties.
I think the first A330-300 flew in 1993.
Airbus are in the advantageous position of having an excellent aircraft on which to improve, rather than having to start afresh.
Much of Boeing's PR material about "30% more efficient" with regards to the 7E7 is based on a comparison with its own 767, a 1970s aeroplane. The exisiting A330 is much more efficient than the 767. The 7E7 will be more efficient, but not by much.
I think Airbus are going to win this; the A350 seems much more than a 'warmed over' A330.
I think the first A330-300 flew in 1993.
Airbus are in the advantageous position of having an excellent aircraft on which to improve, rather than having to start afresh.
Much of Boeing's PR material about "30% more efficient" with regards to the 7E7 is based on a comparison with its own 767, a 1970s aeroplane. The exisiting A330 is much more efficient than the 767. The 7E7 will be more efficient, but not by much.
I think Airbus are going to win this; the A350 seems much more than a 'warmed over' A330.
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All nice and dandy, but what about the Battle in the Boardroom between the French and the Germans? The French secret service tapping the phones of the German EADS managers (according "Der Spiegel")?
And what about Napoleon Forgeards plans to be the only chairman of EADS with the help of his friend Chirac?
Apparently there's a lot going on behind the scenes. Hertrich will be succeeded by Enders, Bisschoff consults Schrempp who on his term consults Gerhard Schroeder to curb Forgeard.
And what about a possible merger with Thales which will make EADS bigger than Boeing and mainly a French company? Is that the ultimate goal of the French? Care to comment on that Toulouse?
And btw, as pax I do prefer the 747 over a 340 any time...
And what about Napoleon Forgeards plans to be the only chairman of EADS with the help of his friend Chirac?
Apparently there's a lot going on behind the scenes. Hertrich will be succeeded by Enders, Bisschoff consults Schrempp who on his term consults Gerhard Schroeder to curb Forgeard.
And what about a possible merger with Thales which will make EADS bigger than Boeing and mainly a French company? Is that the ultimate goal of the French? Care to comment on that Toulouse?
And btw, as pax I do prefer the 747 over a 340 any time...
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I agree with you bahrain boy
Airbus could do very well out of this if they get moving quickly, as you have pointed out, a lot of the comparisons regarding efficiency and weight are based on old Boeing designs and the A330 family are already a lot more efficient than Boeing 767's. Shouldnt be too difficult to use a composite structure combined with the super efficient wing already in exsistence on the A330/340.
Also with the crew commonality issue between the A340/A330/A350 will make this an attractive option for airlines with a comprehensive Long haul structure.
Should be interesting.
DS
btw capt kaos, what makes you think we give a sh!t which you prefer as pax???
Airbus could do very well out of this if they get moving quickly, as you have pointed out, a lot of the comparisons regarding efficiency and weight are based on old Boeing designs and the A330 family are already a lot more efficient than Boeing 767's. Shouldnt be too difficult to use a composite structure combined with the super efficient wing already in exsistence on the A330/340.
Also with the crew commonality issue between the A340/A330/A350 will make this an attractive option for airlines with a comprehensive Long haul structure.
Should be interesting.
DS
btw capt kaos, what makes you think we give a sh!t which you prefer as pax???
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767 is more fuel efficient than the A330
and the A330 family are already a lot more efficient than Boeing 767's.
The 767-400, which has about the same pax capacity as the A330-200, is much lighter (OEW 103T versus 120T for the A332).
One would therefore expect the 767-400 to be more fuel efficient.
I just checked the Eurocontrol database which confirm what I tought:
fuel burn at FL350
150T A332 at 473kts: 86.2 kg/min
190T A332 at 473kts: 96.5 kg/min
124T 764 at 461kts: 70.6 kg/min
159T 764 at 461kts: 84.2 kg/min
At similar mass level, the 764 is slightly more efficient than the A332 (84.2 vs 86.2 kg/min)
However, the 764 fly at lower mass level due to its lower OEW, and is therefore substantially more fuel efficient per passenger carried than the A332
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/767...ron/index.html
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. 7E7 is smaller
A350-800 = 245 seats 8,600 nm
7E7-8 = 217 seats 8,500 nm
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
7E7-9 = 257 seats 8,300 nm
A350 is not the competitor of 7E7. They are on two distinct, but very closely positioned, market segments.
Because A350-800 and A350-900 are A330 on steroids, A350 will be a tough competitor of the current A330 and A340-300.
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
A340-300 = 295 seats 7,400 nm
A350-900 will take benefit of new generation engines so it will burn much less fuel than A340-300.
A330 and A340-300 will simply be crushed by their younger sister A350.
7E7-8 = 217 seats 8,500 nm
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
7E7-9 = 257 seats 8,300 nm
A350 is not the competitor of 7E7. They are on two distinct, but very closely positioned, market segments.
Because A350-800 and A350-900 are A330 on steroids, A350 will be a tough competitor of the current A330 and A340-300.
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
A340-300 = 295 seats 7,400 nm
A350-900 will take benefit of new generation engines so it will burn much less fuel than A340-300.
A330 and A340-300 will simply be crushed by their younger sister A350.
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Capt. Kaos:
To be hones, No? I don't really care to respond to your comments. For one thing I'm not French, secondly, I couldn't really be bothered what the aims ofthe "French" as you say are, once Airbus stays in business, continues being profitable, building excellent aircraft and providing Boeing with competition, what else matters?
Glad to hear you prefer the 747 over the 340. WHAT'S YOUR POINT HERE IN A TOPIC ON THE 350????
To be hones, No? I don't really care to respond to your comments. For one thing I'm not French, secondly, I couldn't really be bothered what the aims ofthe "French" as you say are, once Airbus stays in business, continues being profitable, building excellent aircraft and providing Boeing with competition, what else matters?
Glad to hear you prefer the 747 over the 340. WHAT'S YOUR POINT HERE IN A TOPIC ON THE 350????
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I`m also hoping they launch a freighter version of the A350-900.
Would be a nice addition to the fleet,and steal some orders from the 777-200LRF which looks a bit too dominant in its sector.
And as humble_dor pointed out,its similar to the 7e7,but not a perfect match.I think the -900 might me placing itself as a replacement for the A series 772s,and older A340s.
Should sell nicely!
Would be a nice addition to the fleet,and steal some orders from the 777-200LRF which looks a bit too dominant in its sector.
And as humble_dor pointed out,its similar to the 7e7,but not a perfect match.I think the -900 might me placing itself as a replacement for the A series 772s,and older A340s.
Should sell nicely!
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What's all this about crushing A343? Who's going to be buying (as opposed to renting existing frames) them now, let alone 2009/2010? If we are going to have comparisons, lets have comparisons with a/c actually selling, like 345/346.
Why are most posters here hung up on pax when freight is often the guy who pays the piper on LH? EI went through very bad times pax wise but kept the ship afloat with bumper cargo - 33x/34x were designed around cargo container widths remember!
The new aircraft must carry goods in bad times and bags in good times - only the LCCs of this world (sadly including EI SH these days) are interested in bags only. Could this be why flyglobespan are among the first in line for 7E7?
Why are most posters here hung up on pax when freight is often the guy who pays the piper on LH? EI went through very bad times pax wise but kept the ship afloat with bumper cargo - 33x/34x were designed around cargo container widths remember!
The new aircraft must carry goods in bad times and bags in good times - only the LCCs of this world (sadly including EI SH these days) are interested in bags only. Could this be why flyglobespan are among the first in line for 7E7?
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7E7 is smaller
A350-800 = 245 seats 8,600 nm
7E7-8 = 217 seats 8,500 nm
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
7E7-9 = 257 seats 8,300 nm
A350 is not the competitor of 7E7. They are on two distinct, but very closely positioned, market segments.
Because A350-800 and A350-900 are A330 on steroids, A350 will be a tough competitor of the current A330 and A340-300.
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
A340-300 = 295 seats 7,400 nm
A350-900 will take benefit of new generation engines so it will burn much less fuel than A340-300.
A330 and A340-300 will simply be crushed by their younger sister A350.
A350-800 = 245 seats 8,600 nm
7E7-8 = 217 seats 8,500 nm
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
7E7-9 = 257 seats 8,300 nm
A350 is not the competitor of 7E7. They are on two distinct, but very closely positioned, market segments.
Because A350-800 and A350-900 are A330 on steroids, A350 will be a tough competitor of the current A330 and A340-300.
A350-900 = 285 seats 7,500 nm
A340-300 = 295 seats 7,400 nm
A350-900 will take benefit of new generation engines so it will burn much less fuel than A340-300.
A330 and A340-300 will simply be crushed by their younger sister A350.
- B did its work on 7e7 first, so A has the luxury of responding to B's product (at the cost of being later to market)
- B wants a product line with range/capacity points that do not overlap
- B defintely would not want to create a product that overlaps with 777
- A clearly would want to attack the gaps in B's product line
- Thus A's annoucement has products that overlap the top of the 7e7 line and the bottom of the 777 line
For those who hate the A vs B wars you can see the benefit of the competition. If there was no genuine competition, there would be no need for the use of new materials, or better engines, etc.
One comment to make on A's sizing of the market: They claim 3000 airframes, which is more than B's claims which were around 2000 airframes. The claims are interesting, because A does not have to begin to pay back its development loans till it has sold 40% of its anticipated market. Presumably A is planning to sell 50% of the 3000 frames, no? Also interesting that A380 is forecast to 1000 frames, so no loans will begin repayment till 400 are sold, and ~120 or so are currently sold. Its probably not polite to keep bringing up the loan issue, but it is a key factor in how A can get product into the market faster than B can, and the quickness of A's response to 7e7 is evidence of this.
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ElectroVlasic said
Right.
But A is killing its own products A330 and A340-300.
A350 is sandwitched between 777 and 7E7 and A only has A300-600 at the lower side of the family.
B did its work on 7e7 first, so A has the luxury of responding to B's product (at the cost of being later to market)
B wants a product line with range/capacity points that do not overlap
B defintely would not want to create a product that overlaps with 777
A clearly would want to attack the gaps in B's product line
Thus A's annoucement has products that overlap the top of the 7e7 line and the bottom of the 777 line
B wants a product line with range/capacity points that do not overlap
B defintely would not want to create a product that overlaps with 777
A clearly would want to attack the gaps in B's product line
Thus A's annoucement has products that overlap the top of the 7e7 line and the bottom of the 777 line
Right.
But A is killing its own products A330 and A340-300.
A350 is sandwitched between 777 and 7E7 and A only has A300-600 at the lower side of the family.