Concorde Fleet Rebellion
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And here we have the so-called 'best of the best', 
Concorde line pilots who are ready to throw their toys out of the pram, just because they don't get to fly the last few flights.
A better idea would be for BA management to scrap the rest of the Concorde schedule, turn 'em into beer cans and re-assign the malcontent Concorde pilots to a 'lesser' fleet...or perhaps the unemployment line.
Aw, poor babies....
Concorde line pilots who are ready to throw their toys out of the pram, just because they don't get to fly the last few flights.A better idea would be for BA management to scrap the rest of the Concorde schedule, turn 'em into beer cans and re-assign the malcontent Concorde pilots to a 'lesser' fleet...or perhaps the unemployment line.
Aw, poor babies....
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Interesting thread.
On the one hand the poor, downtrodden, so-badly-treated victims of a "porky", parentless, out-of-fuel, Over Brentford and grudge-ridden management.
On the other hand, the few who could be bothered to respond to this mass sulk with their opinions based upon experience of the real world.
loaded1 thinks that he knows what the real world is like....
Is the real world a different place ? Try working for some of the bosses of the independent airlines. The phrase "mill owners" is frighteningly appropriate in most cases. You people live in another world.
411A - I agree with everything in your first post and all but "turn 'em into beer cans" of your second post and I'd like the spoilt brats on the remainder of this thread to take note.
On the one hand the poor, downtrodden, so-badly-treated victims of a "porky", parentless, out-of-fuel, Over Brentford and grudge-ridden management.
On the other hand, the few who could be bothered to respond to this mass sulk with their opinions based upon experience of the real world.
loaded1 thinks that he knows what the real world is like....
......strut around like a mill-owner and lash out at the poor proletarians who work for you. The real world is a different place.
411A - I agree with everything in your first post and all but "turn 'em into beer cans" of your second post and I'd like the spoilt brats on the remainder of this thread to take note.
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Strikes me that we have a conflict here between the non BA contributors who perceive BA Concorde pilots as "the best of the best" and a "priviledged few" with all the perks that go with that, and the BA insiders who know that the opposite is actually the case. That fact ,coupled with the personalities involved means that a lot of people are raising eyebrows at junior,relatively inexperienced Concorde pilots "bagging" all the jollies for themselves. A bit like the management extracting the Royal and PM tours. The job of manager in BA means one sits in an office and manges the fleet and pilots . Where does it state though shalt pre extract all the decent trips? Why isnīt BALPA making more of a fuss?
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Why isnīt BALPA making more of a fuss?
No wonder they issue memos suggesting you lot can't be trusted not to do something silly.
Whenever I've been asked if I had an ultimate ambition in aviation, I'd always reply "Concorde pilot." When I see what I'd have to share a cockpit with, all of my regrets at not achieving that just disappear.
Final post/visit from me on this thread. I've got better things to do than waste my breath.
Paxing All Over The World
If the mgmt cannot trust their staff to perform their duties without doing something silly or spectacular on one day - then they cannot trust them on any day.
Plainly, that is nonsense, as they trust them every day.
Therefore, this sounds like a ruse to get the fun 'gig'. I wonder if the management had anticipated this problem when the closure was announced, worked out which of the gigs would be fun and then shared them out accordingly, so that (as far as was possible) everyone got some fun? If they did - then they can be called good management.
Plainly, that is nonsense, as they trust them every day.
Therefore, this sounds like a ruse to get the fun 'gig'. I wonder if the management had anticipated this problem when the closure was announced, worked out which of the gigs would be fun and then shared them out accordingly, so that (as far as was possible) everyone got some fun? If they did - then they can be called good management.
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Unfortunately for you perhaps, Carruthers, not only do I fly aeroplanes for a living but I've been doing it for well over a decade now. My reply was directed at 411a's interminably negative posts whenever flightcrew personnel are the topic, rather than the merits or otherwise of the reputed argument between BA and its Concorde crews.
To refer to flight engineers with the phrase "bin 'em" or similar is, as I stated in regard to all of 411a's post, gratuitously offensive to my mind, not a constructive contribution to any rational debate and more akin to someone who seems to seek to be deliberately provocative with no other end in mind than to cause offense. Or perhaps 411a knows otherwise and would like to make such a remark face to face to a man who has served his company and his profession for, I gather in some cases, over three decades. I bet he wouldn't dare, but isn't that what makes the internet such fun for people like 411a?
I've also worked outside aviation for a long spell in order to pay for the privilege of getting there at all. I am therefore very aware that employment practise has changed a long way elsewhere, and its more than lamentable for ALL of those in the aviation industry that the attitudes that are spoken of by so many on this forum persist for professional aviators. Quite honestly the attitudes alluded to on this forum as being common to airline employers should serve as a warning to young people thinking of entering professional aviation.
To refer to flight engineers with the phrase "bin 'em" or similar is, as I stated in regard to all of 411a's post, gratuitously offensive to my mind, not a constructive contribution to any rational debate and more akin to someone who seems to seek to be deliberately provocative with no other end in mind than to cause offense. Or perhaps 411a knows otherwise and would like to make such a remark face to face to a man who has served his company and his profession for, I gather in some cases, over three decades. I bet he wouldn't dare, but isn't that what makes the internet such fun for people like 411a?
I've also worked outside aviation for a long spell in order to pay for the privilege of getting there at all. I am therefore very aware that employment practise has changed a long way elsewhere, and its more than lamentable for ALL of those in the aviation industry that the attitudes that are spoken of by so many on this forum persist for professional aviators. Quite honestly the attitudes alluded to on this forum as being common to airline employers should serve as a warning to young people thinking of entering professional aviation.
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Anthony C. Said:
"......and I'd love to compare the F/E pension, no doubt inflation proofed, to my Capts. salary with an independent airline."
As one of the Flight Engineers affected, and at 51 years of age, I can confidentially tell you that after 33 years in aviation, and 14,000 flying hours, my pension will be less than the Average National Salary. And that's considerably less than you probably receive as a Captain in an independant airline.
And how I WISH it were inflation proofed.
"......and I'd love to compare the F/E pension, no doubt inflation proofed, to my Capts. salary with an independent airline."
As one of the Flight Engineers affected, and at 51 years of age, I can confidentially tell you that after 33 years in aviation, and 14,000 flying hours, my pension will be less than the Average National Salary. And that's considerably less than you probably receive as a Captain in an independant airline.
And how I WISH it were inflation proofed.
BEagle
...If BA management doesn't trust its line pilots, then neither do I...
Surprised and saddened to hear that from someone of your experience.
Does this faith in management also extend to your own senior managers?
Say, just for example, Wratten or Day?
Thought not.
Regards
Bellerophon
...If BA management doesn't trust its line pilots, then neither do I...
Surprised and saddened to hear that from someone of your experience.
Does this faith in management also extend to your own senior managers?
Say, just for example, Wratten or Day?
Thought not.
Regards
Bellerophon
Bellerophon, no, what I meant was, if the alleged management really did express such a lack of confidence in their well-trained line pilots, then why should anyone else trust them either?
In other words, to assert that the regular Concorde pilots might not be suitably trustworthy to be permitted to fly the aircraft on its final flights is scandalous. Either they're as excellent as everyone believes, or they're not. If the former, then it should be 'names in the hat' for the twilight Concorde flights; if the latter then don't ever expect people to fly BA in the future.
So 'management', wake up and smell the coffee. Your alleged denigration of your regular guys and girls is unworthy and will do nothing to further your airline's reputation.
But I'm sorry - until King and Marshall and the rest from the 'Dirty Tricks' era have been $hitcanned once and for all, then I will never, ever fly BA. Particularly since Rod has now murdered Concorde, the only thing which made BA in any way special.
And as for Wratten and Day.......see the Chinook thread!
In other words, to assert that the regular Concorde pilots might not be suitably trustworthy to be permitted to fly the aircraft on its final flights is scandalous. Either they're as excellent as everyone believes, or they're not. If the former, then it should be 'names in the hat' for the twilight Concorde flights; if the latter then don't ever expect people to fly BA in the future.
So 'management', wake up and smell the coffee. Your alleged denigration of your regular guys and girls is unworthy and will do nothing to further your airline's reputation.
But I'm sorry - until King and Marshall and the rest from the 'Dirty Tricks' era have been $hitcanned once and for all, then I will never, ever fly BA. Particularly since Rod has now murdered Concorde, the only thing which made BA in any way special.
And as for Wratten and Day.......see the Chinook thread!
Beagle
Thank you for that, I had obviously misunderstood your post.
As for the Chinook thread - which as you will know is a particularly poignant and emotive topic for one of our retired colleagues rest assured that Nigel is firmly on the same side as Brian Dixon, et al. Hopefully, not too much longer to wait now.
Regards
Bellerophon
Thank you for that, I had obviously misunderstood your post.
As for the Chinook thread - which as you will know is a particularly poignant and emotive topic for one of our retired colleagues rest assured that Nigel is firmly on the same side as Brian Dixon, et al. Hopefully, not too much longer to wait now.
Regards
Bellerophon
411A......Still eagerly awaiting 2 things:
1) An American airliner which can transport me from JFK to LHR as quickly and comfortably as the Concorde and...
2) You're Hong Kong-based Tristar freight operation where you will put your impeccable management skills to use. Recall your posts about how you were coming to HK to show all the malconents how a real airline worked. It was imminent some years ago. Must be even more imminent now I guess. So when will your L1011's roll down the tarmac at CLK?
1) An American airliner which can transport me from JFK to LHR as quickly and comfortably as the Concorde and...
2) You're Hong Kong-based Tristar freight operation where you will put your impeccable management skills to use. Recall your posts about how you were coming to HK to show all the malconents how a real airline worked. It was imminent some years ago. Must be even more imminent now I guess. So when will your L1011's roll down the tarmac at CLK?
Just a numbered other
Twotun
Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, I ask why you expect to be treated any diffently than the thousands of miners, who, when their workplace became an anachronism, had to move on. And they did it without early retirement or a fat pension.
Having to retread at fifty-one is hardly the end of the world. Get real.
Whilst I sympathise with your predicament, I ask why you expect to be treated any diffently than the thousands of miners, who, when their workplace became an anachronism, had to move on. And they did it without early retirement or a fat pension.
Having to retread at fifty-one is hardly the end of the world. Get real.
Uncle Pete
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I don't know how often your management pilots fly but I'd rather be behind someone who is flying four or five days a week and really up to speed with the aircraft and what's going on.
I reckon the last thing a line pilot will do on a final flight is something stupid. After all he is probably going on a conversion course and won't want any "baggage" to follow him to his new fleet.
MP
I reckon the last thing a line pilot will do on a final flight is something stupid. After all he is probably going on a conversion course and won't want any "baggage" to follow him to his new fleet.
MP
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411A
DC-10's?! From Cork??!!*&^@#$%!!!!!!
Good Luck! Let us all know when you come back to reality!!
I think that you,and your rust buckets, have spent too much time in the baking Arizona sun.
Meanwhile,back on Planet Earth...
...I feel sorry for the F/E's and the line crews because
a) It IS the end of an era.
b) They will have to cope with ENFORCED major lifestyle changes if they intend to stay with BA.
c) They were denied the chance to carry on operating the Big Bird albeit with VS by BA (mis) management's spoilt brattish, arrogant, "We can't make any money out of it,so no one else can either!" attitude.
Who chooses BA managers? They were given EVERYTHING when they were privatised so they should have made money from day1 but they've blown it all.
I even feel a little pity for Bannister himself.If he persists with his intensions and stands by his reasons,then he will have to live with being probably the most hated individual in aviation and in today's climate he's up against some pretty stiff competition for that title.
But I reserve most of my pity for the poor,green eyed Yanks who STILL haven't quite got over the fact that the Brits and the Frogs achieved something that they never could.
DC-10's?! From Cork??!!*&^@#$%!!!!!!
Good Luck! Let us all know when you come back to reality!!
I think that you,and your rust buckets, have spent too much time in the baking Arizona sun.
Meanwhile,back on Planet Earth...
...I feel sorry for the F/E's and the line crews because
a) It IS the end of an era.
b) They will have to cope with ENFORCED major lifestyle changes if they intend to stay with BA.
c) They were denied the chance to carry on operating the Big Bird albeit with VS by BA (mis) management's spoilt brattish, arrogant, "We can't make any money out of it,so no one else can either!" attitude.
Who chooses BA managers? They were given EVERYTHING when they were privatised so they should have made money from day1 but they've blown it all.
I even feel a little pity for Bannister himself.If he persists with his intensions and stands by his reasons,then he will have to live with being probably the most hated individual in aviation and in today's climate he's up against some pretty stiff competition for that title.
But I reserve most of my pity for the poor,green eyed Yanks who STILL haven't quite got over the fact that the Brits and the Frogs achieved something that they never could.