LHR or LGW commuters - more speed cameras.....
 

Be aware of the new speed cameras which are in the SE and being erected the complete length of the 'A' and 'M Roads.

They are recognised by a tall blue coloured poles and a small aerial pole next to it. We may have a possible stay of execution, due to the privacy law up-holding these unit for being switched on.

At the moment it is being debated within Parliament. SPEEDCHECK SVVD or SPECS went on-line last week-end on the M1, netting
4,300 offenders in a single day. The system does not use instantaneous speed like the cameras we're all familiar with, instead measuring the average speed of every vehicle over a distance of about a mile. How? By
reading your license plates and matching them up camera -to-camera. Kent and Leicestershire police are so impressed with it that systems are being erected in their enforcement areas too. This is a new system which has now entered service after successful trials on the M1 and M20 in the UK. SPEEDCHECK SVDD (Sure way Video Detection Device) is a system similar in
concept to the GATSO, but with a new twist. SVDD deploys cameras at either end of a measured baseline, (up to 500 metres) to monitor vehicles 24 hours a day. Using machine vision, vehicle number plates are read, and the precise time of each observation recorded and as a vehicle passes the second camera, the number plate records are matched, and an average speed for the vehicle is calculated. If this is above the trigger speed, then the vehicle's identification is recorded along with it's speed. It is also flashed up on a huge illuminated sign further down the road to embarrass the driver into slowing down. When triggered, the detection technology used in these cameras automatically records the date, precise time, location and speed of the offending vehicle, along with a detailed image of the front of the vehicle, which clearly records the number plate, make,
model, who is driving and colour of the vehicle.

There's five overriding reasons for the habitual speeder to be afraid of this system. Or may be there could be the implication of a sixth reason, what if s/he is not your fulltime other half!

1. It works 24 hours a day.
2. Needs no film!
3. Uses no flash!
4. Uses no radar! So, bad luck all those of you who think that radar detectors work.
5. It's been proven to be over 99% accurate in almost all weather conditions.

It doesn't do spot-speed checking. A GATSO can only check the speed of a vehicle within a certain range, so the tactic most drivers use now is to slow down for the camera and then speed up again once past it SPEEDCHECK
measures average speed over a known distance. So if you do 60mph under each camera and then speed up to 80 mph in between, your average speed is likely to be near 70mph - 10 over the limit imposed, you're nicked.SVDD say this means that the system can impose a far smoother flow of traffic eliminating slow-fast driving that the GATSO cameras provoke.

Because it's automated, the system is entirely self-sufficient. It's hooked
up to the DVLA computers, and can automatically process the fines and send
out notices in the post. It's Big Brother. Don't believe for a moment that this technology will only be used to catch speeders. It can be used to keep track of where every single car in the country is at any given moment in time once the network of these things becomes broad enough. Warning to M25 Motorists. If you are a driver then this is important! There are 60 new cameras that start operating on the M25 on Monday 14 June 2001. These are between the A3 and M40. They are digital and linked direct to computer, use no film or flashgun. They can deal with 60,000 tickets EVERY HOUR. The cameras are also (apparently) linked and can workout your average speed between them. So, if you speed up between them and slow down as you approach them, if your average speed is over the "legal limit + No %" threshold you may well get a ticket!

But can they see the person at the base of the pole with the pipe cutters?

Boy! what a sad paranoid git you are.
Personally I have no objection to speed cameras, and would very happy to see this technology countrywide.
I imagine you're the driver who overtakes the rest of us at high speed, and ten miles ahead we find you two cars in front.
In my home county, someone is killed as a result of speeding every day - unfortunately the victim is usually the innocent party.
Get a life yourself and do something constructive.

Tall blue pole with an arial next to it ??

They are trafficmaster installations - they do indeed record numberplates, but only to measure the speed of the traffic to warn if it is s l o w ...


[This message has been edited by danfulton (edited 27 April 2001).]

Sorry BombBay I fear your statement that someone is killed by speeding everyday in your county to be a little wide of the mark.

According to DETR statistics speed is a factor in less than 7% of accidents in the UK. Speed doesn't kill, bad driving does which includes inappropriate speed.

SPECS was trialled in Derbyshire (I think it was). Suprise suprise it slowed drivers down OK but resulted in a great deal less than anticipated revenue and the local council are considering removing them due to the fact they are raising no profit! Makes a mockery of the oft quoted reasoning for the installation of cameras ie to make roads safer. It is a fallacy that this is the case because cameras nationwide have had little impact on accident statistics.

If you wish to protest against the campaign by the DETR to make driving more expensive and unpleasant join the ABD.

Details at http://www.abd.org.uk

Bombay,

Easy Mate. No need to be insulting.

I agree with your point about people who have to be the one in front, the person going the fastest ect. Unfortunately it seems to be a result of the rather faster pace and “I want it now” lifestyle we seem to live.

However there is no call for it and it winds everybody up, Including the impatient person who is trying to get in front and only ends up with you reappearing in there review mirror a few minutes later.

What I do object to though is being sent a ticket through the post when I have been doing 90 mph on an empty motorway at 2am. All I want to do is get home after work so I can rest and spend time with those that matter. What harm am I doing? I am not screaming around back lanes, past country schools, overtaking anyone who dares to drive at or around the speed limit.

I welcome the cameras in the right places and used the right way if it helps to ease our traffic problems.


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Irie

Total road deaths caused by excessive speed run at around 200 a year for the UK as a whole (Transport Research Laboratory report 323), so where is this county with 365 a day?

Included in this figure are cases where the speeds involved were excessive for the conditions but within the speed limit, so speed cameras would have made no difference. And very few of these accidents take place on motorways. Those motorway accidents that do tend to take place in conditions of heavy traffic and/or bad weather where no one is anywhere near the speed limit, and are generally caused by tailgating or careless lane changing.

To anticipate the likely response, I am just as anxious as you to see something done about those who drive fast and dangerously, but I also want something done about those who drive slowly and dangerously, or just plain dangerously. The increase in speed cameras is being accompanied by propaganda to the effect that all accidents could be avoided if only nobody exceeded a speed limit, thereby encouraging drivers to believe that as long as they are driving relentlessly at the speed limit irrespective of the circumstances, any danger that arises must be the other guys fault.

I disagree.
Speed cameras on Motorways are not the most effective use of resources to prevent accidents and death/injury. The "speed kills" message is a superficial and facile attempt at solving a very complex problem. Like most simple proposals to solve complex problems, it is wrong. Statistically most accidents and certainly most fatal accidents happen on minor single carriageway roads. Yet these type of roads, even known 'blackspots' are rarely equipped with speed detection or police patrols. Why? Perhaps the relative lack of traffic and a steady stream of fines as is available on busy moterways! Speeding is relative and depends on weather, traffic, visibility, road condition, driver competence and experience. To reduce it to a simple formula of 100 and x per cent of y is ludicrous. This is symtomatic of a bureaucratic mindset that wants to tick off the "We must do something about road safety" box. Oh, and a healthy stream of revenue too from the already overburdened motorist.

To really do something effective about road safety would have to start in the schools with a comprehensive driver education programme. Ideally, alll drivers should be encouraged/subsidised/incentivised to complete the Institute of Advanced Motorists test or some similar program. But this would cost money, wouldn't it? Are we likely to see it?? Two chances I'm afraid!

On a lighter note, try applying a light coating of vaseline to your number plate (during winter months) This will attract enough mud and grime to render the number plate illegible to the cameras. (Be prepared to leave your car unwashed for long periods)With large numbers of photographs and stretched police resources, you will fall between the cracks while the easy targets are fleeced.

More seriously, I am appalled from a civil liberties point of view at the seeming absence of safeguards that this data will only be used for the purposes specified.

The price of liberty is eternal vigilence.

I'm sorry but I consider this camera to be an atrocious waste of our money and it only confirms how right George Orwell was in his vision.

If the traffic isn't heavy there is very little danger in someone doing, say, 85-90. This country has a nasty habit of doing things and worrying about the legality/implications of it after.

You can't even enjoy your car in this country anymore. I think if the police spent half as much time avoiding traffic delays instead of busting you the moment you go slightly over the (stupidly set) 70mph then I might be more convinced.

As for me I might just put on some false plates and enjoy myself

Interesting debate but not for this forum. Moving to Non Air Transport issues if you want to continue it.

As a matter of interest if you want to identify the different types of surveillance on the roads and which are used by the authorities for revenue generation and which (by the sound of the blue poles mentioned above) are used by the likes of TrafficMaster to compute traffic flows have a look at The Speedtrap Bible which has a section on just about anything to do with speeding.

Specifically these: http://www.brakehorsepower.com/speedtrap/ptfm2.gif

Read this: http://www.brakehorsepower.com/speed..._notatrap.html

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Capt PPRuNe
aka Danny Fyne
The Professional Pilots RUmour NEtwork

[This message has been edited by Capt PPRuNe (edited 27 April 2001).]

Spot on, Dr Jekyll.

Every day I see some terrible driving on unrestricted country lanes where I live (South Coast of England), which kills no end of people, but nothing is being done about it - and it is almost all below the speed limit (60). Indeed, during the week of the Hatfield rail crash, more people died on the roads within 20 miles of my house than died in the rail accident, but that's just another week on the roads. If anyone really cared about improving safety then these are the drivers to tackle - but it costs money to do it. You need to charge them with dangerous driving, and a camera can't do that. Meanwhile you can try and make a quick buck catching some unfortunate doing 75 on the motorway, and claim you are dealing with the problem.

:mad:

Evo

[This message has been edited by Evo7 (edited 27 April 2001).]

Not doing any harm, only 200 deaths a year.

Its still breaking the law. Can we ignore air saftey laws if we want as well ? I am sure less than 200 die a year from accidents from smoking in aeroplane toilets so we can ignore that law!

Forget air rage laws, it kills less than 200.

THE LAW IS NOT OPTIONAL. IF THE ROAD IS CLEAR IT IS STILL ILLEGAL. RESPECT THE LAW IF YOU WISH OTHERS TO RESPECT LAWS PROTECTING YOU.

cb747

The Association of Chief Police Officers will tell you that unrealistic speed limits are unenforceable.

A good example is the Farnham Road out of Slough. Approximately 30 yards either side of each and every set of traffic lights (at least 6 sets I can remember) the speed limit is 20 mph. I have yet to see anybody take the slightest bit of notice of this pointless piece of nonsense in the name of road safety.

I generally do stick close to speed limits, especially in built up areas, but I shamelessly ignore the sort of nonsensical limits that I have just described.

I agree with your sentiment but lets have realistic limits and then enforce them effectively.

How about at the same time prosecuting those that sit in the middle lane of the motorway when the near lane is empty, those that no longer use indicators (more prevalent by the day) and those that drive just plain badly.
It will be far more effective in the long term at reducing casualties but of course will provide little instant revenue.

Readability5,

I'm not sure why you say there may be "a possible stay of execution, due to the privacy law". This type of system has been in operation in Nottingham since the middle of last year:

http://www.abd.org.uk/pr/252.htm

What about the plastic covers that they sell here in the States that have tiny prisms in them to distort the number to a camera ! ($39.99 each)
To the naked eye the just look a little dirty, but they are unreadable by camera !

Think I saw the system being given a trial on Thursday evening on the A6 northbound between Leicester and Loughborough. First setup un-manned in slip road. Second setup a mile later on overbridge. Large black box on tripod facing traffic. No blue pole installation. Coppers larffing their 'eads off.

Round here, there are five tatty Transit vans fitted with radar devices. They park up in some of the 30mph open roads (the ones that have no viable reason for being 30 limits other than for revenue raising) and take pix that then result in speeding tickets through the post.

Sole purpose of the exercise: revenue raising.

Electronic countermeasures seem an attractive idea...