UK plan to launch rival to EU sat-nav system.
Latest four Galileo satellites launched and being commissioned.
https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-sta...on-Information
https://www.gsc-europa.eu/system-sta...on-Information
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yep leaving 12 more to get launched, plan for 2 in 2020, 2 in 2021.
leaving 8 post 2022.
And that's not replacing the broken birds.
700 million a year fixed costs. And no funding confirmed past 2020.
leaving 8 post 2022.
And that's not replacing the broken birds.
700 million a year fixed costs. And no funding confirmed past 2020.
Some of the early satellites did have clock problems, but these have been largely worked around and the later ones are working normally. Only two of the originals are currently held out of service.
When the four newly positioned satellites are fully commissioned there will be 21 providing normal service. Contracts for some of the later ones are still being negotiated. Some of these are for hot spares and not required for immediate service.
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the reports tell you they are broken, I do though have had other pub condensed chat which comes from a place where your pint shakes on the table every week at exactly the same time and day. But nothing that's not public domain its just straight talk without the political waffle and fluffing of the situation.
Only the latest sats which have just gone up have the short circuit fixed in the iridium clock and a changed maser clock.
So out 26 in orbit only the latest 4 are good. And 5 that haven't had any failures yet but still have problematic hardware. All the rest are either, end of life, out of orbit, or have no backup.
There is no work round for the short circuit. The maser work round is ground monitoring and control.
Low res went live in 2016 no date yet for the high res service. By which point the sbas system will be rolled out so the commercial market in Europe will already have other options apart from DGPS. No license still in the USA so its illegal to use even the low res signal.
A few car systems can use it and Iphones and a couple of other smart phones.
Currently the service is no different to GPS. The emergency stuff they have got working I believe with a 2 km resolution.
Only the latest sats which have just gone up have the short circuit fixed in the iridium clock and a changed maser clock.
Out of the 22 sats up there two are in the wrong orbit...… And sort of work but again they can't take part in the fancy stuff.
The ones that are left 3 are the test beds, IOV sats and are coming to the end of their life, and they are working perfectly but running out of fuel.
So out of that 22 there is 11 sats functioning that are mainstream and 4 in commissioning for launch . From that lot that are up there and working there is 6 which are on there second mazzer with no back up. if that one goes they are onto the iridium clocks which means the high precision signal is not possible any more.
So out of 22 there at 5 satellites which could be deemed 100% functioning fit for use with backup with a long term future.
The ones that are left 3 are the test beds, IOV sats and are coming to the end of their life, and they are working perfectly but running out of fuel.
So out of that 22 there is 11 sats functioning that are mainstream and 4 in commissioning for launch . From that lot that are up there and working there is 6 which are on there second mazzer with no back up. if that one goes they are onto the iridium clocks which means the high precision signal is not possible any more.
So out of 22 there at 5 satellites which could be deemed 100% functioning fit for use with backup with a long term future.
There is no work round for the short circuit. The maser work round is ground monitoring and control.
Low res went live in 2016 no date yet for the high res service. By which point the sbas system will be rolled out so the commercial market in Europe will already have other options apart from DGPS. No license still in the USA so its illegal to use even the low res signal.
A few car systems can use it and Iphones and a couple of other smart phones.
Currently the service is no different to GPS. The emergency stuff they have got working I believe with a 2 km resolution.
.
So you can offer nothing other than pub gossip.
Like your other pub information, that's out of date. Most Android phones now support Galileo. My 18 month old Samsung uses Galileo.
So you can offer nothing other than pub gossip.
A few car systems can use it and Iphones and a couple of other smart phones.
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Unless they have been sending up repair teams and fixing hardware in orbit with out me seeing details my information is very much current. The everything is ok now is a EU press fluff release.
There are three makes of smart phone who can accept the low Res signal. But none can in the USA.
But crack on, we shall see what happens in the future. It will be highly political if they cancel or not. Your opinion that I am an idiot and I am talking nonsense will make absolutely zero difference to the out come.
There are three makes of smart phone who can accept the low Res signal. But none can in the USA.
But crack on, we shall see what happens in the future. It will be highly political if they cancel or not. Your opinion that I am an idiot and I am talking nonsense will make absolutely zero difference to the out come.
The US do not allow the use of any other GNSS. They did not and do not like other nations having positioning systems that the US cannot switch off or control. That's their problem to deal with, although I understand that the EU has requested clearance for Galileo in the US. That of course gets tied up with trade issues.
Naturally it took manufacturers some time to update hardware and software to cater for Galileo reception, and existing devices cannot be retrofitted. Smartphone makers buy in GPS chips from manufacturers like Broadcom, and all GPS chips now made for smartphones and other devices fully support Galileo.
If the UK does decide to go ahead with its own GNSS, there will of course be a similar delay of a few years while manufacturers catch up. They may not bother to do so, since smartphone users will already be well served with existing systems including Galileo. The only applications for a UK system will be the military and a few specialised functions.
Naturally it took manufacturers some time to update hardware and software to cater for Galileo reception, and existing devices cannot be retrofitted. Smartphone makers buy in GPS chips from manufacturers like Broadcom, and all GPS chips now made for smartphones and other devices fully support Galileo.
If the UK does decide to go ahead with its own GNSS, there will of course be a similar delay of a few years while manufacturers catch up. They may not bother to do so, since smartphone users will already be well served with existing systems including Galileo. The only applications for a UK system will be the military and a few specialised functions.
A final note for you, tescoapp.
Car manufacturers in the UK wanting to sell in the EU will have to fit Galileo as original equipment to meet EU regulations.
So if you drive a car made in the EU or the UK, or one made elsewhere to sell in the EU, you will be using Galileo whether you like it or not.
I'm sure it will get you promptly to your destination.
Car manufacturers in the UK wanting to sell in the EU will have to fit Galileo as original equipment to meet EU regulations.
So if you drive a car made in the EU or the UK, or one made elsewhere to sell in the EU, you will be using Galileo whether you like it or not.
I'm sure it will get you promptly to your destination.
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The US do not allow the use of any other GNSS. They did not and do not like other nations having positioning systems that the US cannot switch off or control. That's their problem to deal with, although I understand that the EU has requested clearance for Galileo in the US. That of course gets tied up with trade issues.
Are you sure about that? - I am currently sitting in Missouri and my cellphone has no problem using GLONASS with GPS switched off - its currently using 4 of their satellites..
Incidentally, which phone are you using? Most don't allow allow you to select which GNSS to use - they are all on or off..
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
A Fellow of the Royal Society for Navigation says with 4 systems in being, and ours 10 years down the line, we would be better going for sLogan as an accurate unjammable backup.
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They will have all of the various flavours fitted as you say it's only a chipset. I suspect all GPS boxes will have all of them. Why not? recieving the low Res signal is free. If one drops out you can use another one. You have 3 sets of data available so you can pick up a fix quicker.
The US it is illegal to receive anything other than GPS. If you have hardware which is not officially US import model it will likely receive all of them. If you root your device you can also remove the restriction. If you blow a new os onto an android device such as Cyanogen you can also get round it.
They have no real way of knowing what you are recieving. But it stops people marketing services utilising the other systems.
But we shall see what the political choice is if the project continues to be funded or not. Loads more cash needs to be spent to get the full functionality and the market for the commercial product has pretty much evaporated. Thanks to dgps becoming more economic and mainstream and sbas being rolled out through Europe. Anyone that needs accuracy can already do it with a brief case of kit. Or a single box that can receive sbas.
Personally I don't think it will survive but we shall see. The financial side of things is going to get interesting.
The US it is illegal to receive anything other than GPS. If you have hardware which is not officially US import model it will likely receive all of them. If you root your device you can also remove the restriction. If you blow a new os onto an android device such as Cyanogen you can also get round it.
They have no real way of knowing what you are recieving. But it stops people marketing services utilising the other systems.
But we shall see what the political choice is if the project continues to be funded or not. Loads more cash needs to be spent to get the full functionality and the market for the commercial product has pretty much evaporated. Thanks to dgps becoming more economic and mainstream and sbas being rolled out through Europe. Anyone that needs accuracy can already do it with a brief case of kit. Or a single box that can receive sbas.
Personally I don't think it will survive but we shall see. The financial side of things is going to get interesting.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...tellite-system
.......On Friday, May officially announced that the UK would be pulling out of the system and made no mention of any attempt to recoup the UK’s investment.
“The commission decided that we would be barred from having full aspects of the Galileo programme and so it is right for us to look for alternatives because it would be wrong to put our [armed] services relying on a system on which they couldn’t be sure of,” May told reporters in Buenos Aires while attending the G20 summit. “That would not be in our national interest.”
She added: “So what is in our national interest is to say no, you haven’t allowed us full access, so we will develop an alternative, we will look at alternative options, we are doing that work but we will work with other international partners to do so as well.”
Whitehall sources said the issue of the £1.2bn was yet to be finally resolved because the UK could still choose to be involved in commercial aspects of the system.
“We will be discussing our past contributions to the financing of Galileo in the upcoming talks,” a senior UK official said.
Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system to help guide military drones, run energy networks and other commercial uses. May said the UK had “world-class engineers and steadfast allies around the world. We are not short of options.”
Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, said the development of a new system would be an opportunity to draw on British skills and expertise in satellite technology. “Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system,” he said.......
“The commission decided that we would be barred from having full aspects of the Galileo programme and so it is right for us to look for alternatives because it would be wrong to put our [armed] services relying on a system on which they couldn’t be sure of,” May told reporters in Buenos Aires while attending the G20 summit. “That would not be in our national interest.”
She added: “So what is in our national interest is to say no, you haven’t allowed us full access, so we will develop an alternative, we will look at alternative options, we are doing that work but we will work with other international partners to do so as well.”
Whitehall sources said the issue of the £1.2bn was yet to be finally resolved because the UK could still choose to be involved in commercial aspects of the system.
“We will be discussing our past contributions to the financing of Galileo in the upcoming talks,” a senior UK official said.
Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system to help guide military drones, run energy networks and other commercial uses. May said the UK had “world-class engineers and steadfast allies around the world. We are not short of options.”
Gavin Williamson, the defence secretary, said the development of a new system would be an opportunity to draw on British skills and expertise in satellite technology. “Space poses a new and increasingly dangerous front for warfare and it is crucial to push ahead with plans for our own world-class, independent satellite system,” he said.......
ORAC,
"Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system"
Once again, this nonsense completely ignores the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations, and post Brexit the work will be moving from the UK to Spain, France and Germany. The UK control centre is already moving from Swanwick to Spain.
"Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system"
Once again, this nonsense completely ignores the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations, and post Brexit the work will be moving from the UK to Spain, France and Germany. The UK control centre is already moving from Swanwick to Spain.
I assume by that you mean eLoran. A great system for shipping, but very little use for mobile applications . Its low frequency (100kHz) means it needs a large receiving aerial, and it is very vulnerable to local electrical noise.
ORAC,
"Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system"
Once again, this nonsense completely ignores the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations....
"Downing Street said the UK would explore options to build its own Global Navigation Satellite system"
Once again, this nonsense completely ignores the fact that the entire UK satellite design, engineering and manufacturing industry is foreign owned, mainly by EU nations....
wiggy,
Are you suggesting nationalisation?
Are you suggesting nationalisation?
Heaven forbid.......just thinking through the reality of "taking back control".......
Edit to add:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/1...xit_satellite/
Edit to add:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/1...xit_satellite/
Last edited by wiggy; 3rd Dec 2018 at 15:17.