VNA - expat pilots working without pay
 

Just read in the Vietnam Airlines magazine about an expat pilot working without getting paid. Apparently there are a few more doing the same. While all VNA expat pilots have been put on unpaid leave till at least the end of the year, this bunch is taking the profession to new lows ! The impact of COVID-19 is unfortunate to tragic without a doubt, but this bunch is rewarding this company for years of financial mismanagement and failure to save money for the rainy day ... Can’t wait for the first one to post some explanation and understanding for these actions 🤔.

I do remember this guy. 320 skipper. In a meeting with the CEO last year he was wondering why he isn’t getting on the 787 although he offered to pay for it.

Care to post a link?

Last I heard it was LWOP for 3 months. Probably a bit hopeful but I have not heard any mention of rest of the year.

I’m lost for words

Hope he has alot of savings. It seems this :mad: legend in his own mind
doing that bravo sierra and now we know his face as well appears
not very smart.

How low can this profession get? Probably less scabs working in Mcdonalds...

You know what, the whole industry is faced with an existential crisis. This guy has said he loves his company and he is happy to help them out. I know this doesn't resonate well with a lot of us that have been screwed around by companies in the past. But is it really that crazy? He gets to keep flying which he obviously enjoys. I don't think this is a long term thing and he will probably get rewarded by the company if and when long haul flying restarts. I thoroughly expect to be lectured as to how I don't understand what is going on and that he is a scab. But who knows what is going to happen next and right now his strategy does not look any more or less likely to succeed than any other in the crazy situation we all find ourselves in. He is at least doing something rather than sitting on his hands. I expect the lynch mob will prevail but we find ourselves in an extraordinary situation and maybe thinking outside the box is the right answer.

Well, well... unfortunately I'll forcibly calm down during this long unpaid leave, before I have the chance to come upon him at dispatch.

A few more like this climbing plant and we are done.

Are the Local VNA Pilots on unpaid leave as well or some working for free?

How about if he has any incidents out on line whilst he is volunteering to fly for free!
What a conundrum to be in if SHTF!

He is a scab. He is working for free when other pilots are on furlough or LWOP or whatever you call it. It is the same as pilots picking up open time when other pilots are still on furlough.

The contract world. In a nutshell. P2F becomes F4F.

Be interesting to see if VN pays for his sim check though. Easy enough to fly for free, bit harder to get a sim when all sims and medicals for expats have been cancelled.

As an expat who came home to be with his Family and not a possible burden on Vietnams health care system, I doubt that will be held against me so I wouldn’t concern yourselves with it.

He’s not a scab either. This is not a strike or employment dispute. There are hardly any flights operating, so its entirely reasonable to send the expats on unpaid leave until the situation improves to save the airline from bankruptcy. Also to hopefully bring them back as soon as possible.

If an expat who has remained in VN tries to keep his 90 day currency intact by operating the odd flight for free then good luck to him. Its not like he will be breaking a picket line every day. If he ultimately gets what he wants in the long run, then well played.

Make no doubt about it, he’s a scab. The more pilots that are willing to do what he’s done, the longer you’ll be sitting at home waiting and wondering how you’re going to pay your bills. Why would they pay you to fly when they’ve got a scab who’ll do it for free?

It completely devalues our profession. It’s bad enough new starters to our industry doing it, an experienced Captain should know better. Even a prostitute never works for free.

ia1166 you're right on one level re no loyalty in the contract world, but you've forgotten one thing, this guy is also screwing the locals over. They're the ones who are paid by the hour, not us, they're on reduced salary and struggling to survive as well, every hour he flies for free is one less weeks worth of groceries for one of them, I know for a fact that some of them are extremely p***ed off about it.

We've all heard the stories, or know people who learned the hard way, you don't mess with the Vietnamese in their own country without getting payback. He'll be gone within a few months :hmm:

Yeah, to Vietjet :}

This guy really shouldn't be doing this, not good for his colleague expats at VNA at all I'm not impressed by these types.

indolent pilot
 

As an expat pilot, working for VNA, all expat pilots, we are against this pilot, in addition to our Vietnamese colleagues as they are being paid per flight hour and their daily livelihood is being taken away, because of this guy, the same Vietnamese instructors are going to take care of that disloyal, I give him signed

As always everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

As far as I am aware the locals are on half pay. The management are unpaid. If they put all the locals on unpaid and this guy does all the operating flights for free then you have a point but i doubt this is the case.

There are almost no flights operating anyway. I cannot see how any locals are suffering extra because one expat makes this kind of offer.

Those of you using the scab name obviously don’t know the meaning of the word. The days of pilot picket lines outside airports are long gone. There is no basis for this moniker in the contract pilot world.

As for the thinly veiled threats that the local DPEs will lynch him. That just won’t happen, so stop the trolling and baseless threats.

lets keep this in perspective. There are no flights operating anyway.

Bad informed
 

Dear colleague, you see that you are misinformed, of the 90 days we were given without pay, the Vietnamese pilots fly only 30 days and the other 60 days are without pay, currently do not say that there are no flights, at the moment it is They are doing 78 flights starting on the 23rd, so you should get better information before you comment, I fly for the company and I have Vietnamese friend pilots and they do not agree with what this pilot does, they find him totally unfair

Are you kidding?
There are hundreds of pilots logging zero flight time in Vietjet during last 30 days.

Have you ever worked in Vietnam? They will get rid of him if they want to. I know of a pilot who even had someone break into his house at night, held a knife to his throat in his bed, and told him if he wasn’t out of the country in 2 days they’d be back. So don’t for one second think they won’t get someone to “deal” with you if you piss the wrong person off.

As for this apparently being ok, NO, it’s not ******* ok. I don’t care what’s going on in the world at the moment, you don’t fly for free. Especially a ******* airliner! It could well mean this idiot is taking away money from someone who really needs it. I know he’s potentially operating flights that I could be doing, so he’s taking money from me, he’s taking money from everyone.

I hope he is “dealt” with correctly and is put out of work.

Only for the last 16 years, so maybe I am a bit to new. I have been a pilot for 38 years, and a professional one for 36 though so maybe a bit longer than you.

Knife to throat, leave in 2 days. Honestly.

P2F have been flying for free for years, as do the P2Command. p2B787, p2A350, P2LTC, P2TRI, P2DPE..So whats new? you guys have been flying for free a lot in the last 10 years. Us old hands have been watching the steady decline for a decade.

F4F is just a progression of the decline of a once good profession.

Just another day in the contract world.

Anger management is required for you maybe, not a good look for a pilot.

We all need money, but maybe you have aP2F debt?

I’m home so have no new information from when i left.

Is this is the case then it does seem a bit unthoughtful to be honest. Why would this be promulgated in the company magazine as well? Surely keeping the locals employed first is the priority, and the expats should be accepting of this fact.

More to the point has he actually flown at all?

I, and I think many of us expat pilots in the region, can only hope / pray it does.

Does anyone have any updates on this situation? Are expats still on unpaid leave or else flying for free? :ugh:

Wow, $400 is pitiful, what would the average expat at VNA normally make?

When was the specific period of time when expats would have been working for free? Was it around April - June?

Didn’t you join the pilot group who were trying to take legal action against VN for LWOP? A bit ill advised in a pandemic.

It is 400 plus per diems and the way I see it stopped VN going bankrupt while keeping pilots current. Salary improvement is coming.

It a whole new world. Using savings is up to the personal circumstances. Bear in mind its a commuting contract so no provisions are in it to provide private schooling for children. The point of a commuting contract is families are supposed remain in the home country.

Not impressed
 

Doing this kind of thing doesn’t help the industry or any pilot who works in it. Selling your soul to get on the B787, whilst screwing your work colleagues, isn’t worth it. As long as people like this remain in our industry we will all struggle to be treated as professionals.

My friend, if you are reading this, an aircraft is an aircraft. I fly the B787 and I’ve flown the B777 and B737 and A320 and A330. Once you’ve flown one, you’ve flown them all and it’s not the metal (or carbon fibre) you fly around in, it’s the lifestyle it gives you.

Stop being a d!€£, stop selling your soul, stop screwing your colleagues.

If you think saving a few bucks on the pilots salaries is what prevents a company from going bankrupt, you have no idea what you're talking about.

I’m not on the 787, nor have I paid for anything. DPEs are only available to people with ability, not with fat wallet.

not quite sure what you’re on about. Anyhow hope your life style is still suiting you.

I enjoy flying.

Absolutely no interest in long haul.

FYI employee payroll is the second highest cost to an airline after fuel. There is not much revenue going on so how do you figure full salaries can be maintained?

Lower salaries are helping the bottom line and keeping pilots current.

If you’re not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

Happy to be doing my part. Keeping my options open for the future. Higher salaries are coming.

Do you bring your own knee pads, or use the company provided ones?

Got my own thanks.

prossies usually bring their own lube and condoms. But receive much better pay, even in Vietnam ;)

Dear Ian,

Might be worth to study the get to grips ...
Pilot cost is not the 2nd expense for an airline

I recommend Get to the grips with cost index you will be amazed.

(According to IATA in Feb2015 FD crew accounted for 6.8% in an airline cost structure. Just as an example Aircraft ownership 10.2% - Maintenance 9.4% )

IATA is worldwide. Maybe not here. And i didn’t say pilot cost, I said Payroll. That means everybody. Team player.

You can keep those books thanks.

In any event, the game is to stay current until after covid. Its all a bit irrelevant when pilots offered to work for free, and VN is awash with pilots trying to return.

The salary is what it is. Take and stay in the game, or don’t and learn to drive a taxi.

I believe a pay raise is coming soon, and more will follow when covid is past.

hi ia1166, is VNA taking cv's for future employment.
can you pm me your email as i am looking to deposit my cv.
fo rated on 320 .
thanks.

With the lack of fat western tourists at the moment, i suspect its pay cuts all round.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...e-industry.asp

Payroll and fuel.

Biggest cost for an airline.