Eva Air present working conditions
 

Hey guys I'm new to this forum so please take it easy on me. Couldn't find much up to date info on EVA so I started this thread.
Currently a Regional FO in the US and looking at making a move abroad. I'm ATP rated with around 2k TT , of which 1700 is turbine and 500 jet. 500 is part 121. My only type is the ERJ175 so if I want to move to Asia my options seem to be Eva, Cathay and possibly ANA once I build more time. Are there others?
I really like Taiwan and could easily live there. Hong Kong I'm not so sure....

My question is what is Eva like as an employer? They pay twice what I'm making here and I'd rather live there than in the states so it makes sense but I'm not gonna jump blindly and head first without getting some Intel. I'd eventually like to become an expat captain making decent money. Don't really care about the type of aircraft just more the quality of life. Are the schedules utter abuse and slavery or are they somewhat decent? Is management adversarial or supportive ? Thanks for any info or ideas you guys can give.

Working in Asia is not anything like working for a western carrier.

First of all, you are an Ex-Pat, so you will be treated as a second class citizen. Be prepared to be discriminated against, and in Asian culture they don't even attempt to hide the discrimination.

Training is typical asian mentality, which is punitive. Their philosophy is that if you are punished, you will learn. Training is a very negative experience. Be prepared to be belittled, yelled at and constantly threatened.

Check rides and any sim session, as well as line flights in which a management, check pilot or Instructor is on board is a pass/fail check flight which can end your job immediately.

Management including the Chief Pilot, Check Pilots and Instructors are to be treated as Gods walking the earth, and they will expect it. Get on the bad side of any of these types and expect your QOL to deteriorate quickly.

You don't bid schedules, you have a roster, which is to say your flying is assigned. Be prepared for schedules which are brutal by western standards.

Visiting Asia on vacation and actually living and working there are two different things.

My advise is to get a good job with a US major and enjoy your travel privileges and go there often, as a tourist.

No other replies are needed. Black Crow summed it up exactly how it is.

Why would you want to leave the U.S. market in a time of the greatest amount of hiring and expansion in decades? First off, don't leave the regional market until you get a good amount of jet PIC to make yourself more marketable. If you come to Asia and don't enjoy the first outfit you land at, with your low experience, you will stagnate and bounce around to SIC jobs for a long time, especially in the Contract world, which is much of Asia's airlines.

Having almost 20 years in the Airline business and now working for one of the best contract gigs out there, I can tell you that there is NOTHING in Asia that compares to how good and easy that you will have it in the US airlines. If your main drive in life is that you only want to live somewhere in Asia, then that's a whole other conversation.

Black Crow summed it up pretty well for all the Asian countries that hire foreign pilots. If you want to advance to a career airline and have a rewarding career, best advice is to stay where your at and build PIC time and then reevaluate when you have a solid resume. Obviously, things can change in a heartbeat in the US market and the rest of the World, but you can always move to Asia if things go bad in the US. If you were get hired some where in Asia and not upgrade or have to wait to upgrade for 10-12 years, you will not be marketable with a resume full of SIC time, even if its thousands of hours in a wide body.

I would suggest reading a lot more on this board, and think real hard about leaving the US.

Thanks for the advice. I am looking to leave the US. Just tired of trying to carve out an existence here and that region of the globe is so much more exciting. In addition to prioritizing getting PIC Time, should I consider looking in to corporate gigs ? Maybe there are companies that treat you a bit better.

Thanks again for the info.

Black Crow;

I was afraid of this. The US is just not my favorite place even though the aviation market is red hot right now. I guess I should go back to the drawing board before I make a change I will come to regret.

Understand, the Asians have an entire different mentality than the west. You're going to find the same culture in the corporate world there as well.

Seriously, vacationing there versus living and working there are two totally separate worlds.

Carve out an existence? Okay, well it sounds like you've made up your mind that you are going to live in Asia, so you better do lots of research on where you can get in as a low time FO and eventually move to a command position. Not every Asian country will upgrade foreigners and not every airline will either.

Definitely haven't made up my mind yet but yes pursuing a self funded pilot career in the US isn't exactly a walk in the park even though seems like people on here make it to be. The wages have increased sure but not anywhere near cost of living increases in the major metropolitan places they have us domiciled. I've moved across the country, lived in several states , and slept on air mattresses for a couple years now. It'd be nice to see some improvements in my thirties and I'm trying to determine if Asia can do that for me or not.

Honestly if your career aspirations as a pilot is to become an expat contractor, then the industry is worse than i could even imagine, or your impression of life as an expat contactor are rosier than the truth.

I suspect the latter.

Most of us wish we made better career moves than those that resulted in us being here now.

Bladecreep,

Take a look at Emirates or Qatar. I know there are lots of guys complaining and most of the complaints are valid but they are light years ahead of the US regionals in more ways than one.

They have great Asian route structures that are easy to get when you bid for them and you can spend your vacation days and days off going wherever you want in Asia as its only a few hours away. If you get tired of Asia the rest of the world is also available for you.

Good luck in your decision.

Thank you! I will.

Bladecreep... you’re about a year away from your command, that is, if you if you keep your nose clean, and do your job. You quit now... say bye bye to your seniority number. Go to Taiwan, China, or where ever... upgrade? Not a chance. A dose of reality... an expat is one whose necessity if purely temporary until such time that a local can qualify to assume the position that you’ve been hired, on a short term basis, may I add.

If you are hired... and a big IF... it will more than likely be as a relief first officer of which the time is worthless. Nothing but a bunch of alpha numerics in the old logbook.

Another consideration... lets assume you don’t like being an expat and want to return to the U.S. You’re going to have a hard time explaining why you quit a 121 job with a command in the near future to what... be a relief first officer?

Good luck.

This is 100% true.

Some (not all) places in Asia which are great for a holiday can be a absolute nightmare to work.

The problem is that many others have explained, your job in Asia is primarily to fill a seat that a local should fill somewhere in the next 5-10 years. Many people thought the Asian expat fo market would have gone long before now, but its still fairly strong, with demand for cpts higher and that is probably not gonna dry up for the next 20 years.

Don't come here expecting a command, that is number one, you may get one but you probably will not, and if you keep this thought in your mind it will be easier to deal with.

The locals at times will be jealous of where your from, why you in their country making more then them among other things yet they will not say this directly to you, they will use other tactics to belittle you. That includes the cabin crew.

If you really really must want to come to Asia as a FO, try to pick a company which has expat flight ops in there, which brings you very few options, HK, Singapore (expensive to live), Vietnam maybe?

BAe 146-100

I guess I have no idea what the situation is actually like. All I see are the job postings and salaries and because I'm interested in the region, the girls and the flying I must be wear rose colored glasses. In the US we welcome and encourage skilled expat labor, to a large extent, so I assume it is the same abroad. I didn't think the contract was such a tenuous thing, considering the pilot shortage is real in Asia and only partly real in the US. I imagined they would be needed skilled labor for years to come in order to staff their fleets. Its a shame really if they are that far behind the curve.

As has been said here, in Asia you are relevant until you're not. The asians do not welcome expat labor, they only tolerate it.

They are still in the 1960's, early 1970's when it comes to safety, training and operations. While they will say they have a CRM program, an SMS or a just culture, it's purely talk and they don't practice it.

Set FedEx as your goal for a Hong Kong domicile. You can have the best of both worlds for the time you are allowed to stay in HKG.

I did some research on this possibility last year. Yes, they will pay more, but you will also have significantly less time off. Plan on 8-10 days off a month. As an FO you will basically be on endless reserve/reassignment status. Even the bad US regionals have better work rules. Also, EVA has its own wholly owned regional airline, UNI Air, so there is a chance you can be assigned to the ATR, so keep that in mind.

Yes, those 8 to 10 days off. Rarely are more than a single day at a time, and then it's a late arrival (2am) on your day off and a report time of 3am the next day. Basically your "days off" will be spent sleeping.

Holy hell what a nightmare

Well you have much better options in Asia then Eva Air or China Airlines, the Air Japan 767 contract for example.

Any airline which advertises as much as Eva Air and China Airlines for ALL fleets and even NTR is not a good thing, they can not attract many people to go there.

You're catching on. Asian culture pertaining to employment is you are there to work and you will submit to your employer, because after all, he did give you a job.

Blade creep,

Almost everyone gave the right advise. Based on my experience, I would say, stay away from this region. Get to left seat, log 1000 hrs + and look for better opportunities within US, Say Fedex/DHL/UPS/Delta/United etc. What matters is a career in the long run with lot of opportunities which you are not restricted to.

If you can’t get into any of these airlines, then you can think of Emirates or Qatar. The money is good there with a chance to upgrade, schooling and medical paid for, great route network and shining new wide body jets etc. But you’ll have to give yourself at least 10 years in this region. Are you willing to do that leaving your extended family and friends back in US? It’s the decision you should sit and make along with your partner.


I’m sure the working conditions are really hard in Regionals with no time for yourself or family. You’ll feel relieved on this part when you join as a wide body FO in M.E. But there are some downsides like strict company policies, punitive culture, no union, degradation of t&cs etc.

I'm a crj CA in the US thinking about going to the left seat for Peach, Skymark, or Ibex. Not for the money, not for the experience, and not for the type rating. Really I just want to spend a couple years not living in the US for once, and flying around other side of the world, learning a 3rd language, etc. If I go to a major now I'll never be able to check that off my bucket list.

Surely those companies aren't that bad? I've read that Japan is far better than the other asian countries. I have a friend at ANA and he loves it.. want to stay there his whole career.

That is a good idea. Always good to do what you want to do in life. If you want to get away from US. They are bunch of option. You might be quite busy and frustrated with the flying and company culture.


I would suggest go to Japan. Taiwan is a good place, but you can hate it or love it. But I reckon you have been here before. If you want insight on EVA feel free to PM me and I'll give you the low down.

If you want fine living conditions, decent pay, polite people and build hours quickly then India is one of the best place, it is one of the fastest growing countries for aviation. Qatar and Emirates also treat outsiders like Second Class now, infact living conditions are very bad out there with no labour laws.
There is a company which operates CRJ as well.

Hello,

any infos/updates regarding the NTR FO recruitment? (Planned Gs, interviews, assesments..)

thank you

Could you give me the details?

I'm a Licensed Engineer who worked in both Malaysia and Hong Kong. I agree with most of what you said. It's a strange paradox where they idolise 'white' westerners, but also have an inferiority complex or jealously towards us, hence the animosity. I thoroughly enjoyed my time working in Asia, I'm thinking Singapore is probably the most western friendly place in that part of the world. We all have different experiences, for example being Irish, I find Brits friendly outside the UK. However in the UK they are generally cold and miserable, but thats the way society is structured in England, to have everyone constantly in conflict.

EVA is a good place for training for your next job. For a career look elsewhere.

If anyone looking for a word of advise or needs some info feel free to shoot a PM.

What's the average time to command there? I hear upgrades are possible on A321 for some who stay long enough and see their first contract through.

My friends' son flies with EVA and he is quite happy there. Started in 2017 after they recruited the first B777 NTR FO's (was not type rated at the time).
He went via an agency (as in most Asian countries due to regulations) and was well prepared by them for screenings, SIM, medical etc.
The transition for FAA pilots is easier as Taiwan follows FAA regulations more than other Asian countries.
Then again, you must be open to experience another culture, which at least for myself, enriched my life. Nowadays it seems that not as many pilots are open to this.
I started in Europe and was based in Japan and Australia before moving to another airline in HKG (now retired)

I am in the same boat. I'm 32yo single, no kids. The idea of living in Taipei seems like it would be a once in a lifetime adventure. Im currently flying the CRJ as a captain. I know the hiring in the U.S. is hot right now, and that trend should continue. However there is a romance there about going to a place like Taipei and living there that appeals to me. I struggle with this idea every few months and its really bothering me.

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Living and working in Taipei
 

Hi guys,

I'm thinking about applying for the TR 777 position as my wife and I are looking to live in Taipei for a few years. She grew up in Shanghai and likes the idea of living in Taiwan and I am always up for a new adventure. I am curious what the schedule is like for guys who live in Taipei and over all working life. Also, does the housing allowance cover the rent of a nice or at least decent apartment? If anybody has some good information feel free to PM me, I'm pretty sure I set my profile to accept them and emails.

Thanks

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So that really didn't answer my question. I get that working for an Asian carrier is a lot different than a western. I've experience the Asian mentality through my wife. I was looking for some insight into actually working and living in Taipei. Days off, type of schedule, cost of living in regards to the pay, that type of things.

Everyday you are not working for a US airline is lost seniority, and seniority is everything.

At some point you will want to return to the US to work, especially after the reality of working for an asian carrier sets in. You seem to be banking on a robust US pilot hiring situation lasting, and again that's a false assumption.

Get a good paying job with a US carrier and with the travel benefits you can see all of asia without subjecting yourself to their work culture.

EVA info request
 

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Hi,
My motivations and desires match the original post almost identically. I was wondering if you maybe could copy and paste the information regarding EVA you sent to the original poster? This forum reflects basically everything I've heard about Asia in general, but from what I've heard through the grapevine is that EVA is recently becoming one of the better expat airlines in Asia. I've been talking to a recruiter at APAS about EVA for about 6 months and of course it's all roses from his perspective but if you have some actual EVA specific information from the inside I'd appreciate it a lot. Every forum I read ends up turning into a generalized explanation of Asia in general which at this point isn't helpful. I'm young, single, motivated, ready to live abroad, and I'm already generally used to being abused :).

Other than general working conditions info, one question in particular I had was about applying to the airline without going through a recruiter. My recruiter is good but very slow. I see there is a portal for applying directly on the company website. Is this something you would recommend? Is it faster? Also is EVA in a position that were I to apply at, say, 300 jet time versus the 500 required, that they would possibly accept my application at least to get the ball rolling? My recruiter says not, but I am sort of thinking hes being told to tell people no. If the Asian carriers are half as desperate as the US carriers I'm sort of wondering if they'd still give me a pre-emptive interview and a conditional offer with less than the minimus which is sort of turning into the norm in the US.

Thank you for your time
Chris

APAS, EVA Air and Taiwan are probably the best trio in SE Asia. I've been happily living there for more than 3 yrs and have more positive than negative things to say. The Agency is pretty good and since it's Taiwan based is always there for you.
Taiwan is really peaceful, safe and cheap. Food is great and you can get pretty much anything you need here. There is Costco! People are nice and try to help the expat when you look lost and they also have a high percentage of English speaking people. I've had janitors from the mall speak to me in English. Great roads and 7-11's everywhere
Eva Air has changed it's attitude and now there is less punitive actions towards flight events. FOQA data is not used to punish honest mistakes. Initial Training is tough but Recurrent now are EBT type (not PC type) and focus more on being a learning exercise than a punitive you-lost-150ft-on-a-steep-turn kinda thing from the past. I actually enjoy going to the Sim and find it a great learning experience.
Roosters are ok, good rest, Commuting contract and if you bring your family they'll give you outside housing.
As far as your hours, I've heard that you can probably start the application and maybe get an interview and once you get the hours you'll get invited for training (if you passed everything previously).
I'm not from the US so cannot tell you how it compares to your country. I cannot say if this will be better for you but you should give it a try. Eva will send you a ticket and give you a room for the 5 day screening so you have nothing to loose. Good Luck.

Just learned that the type rating and the hours flown in Taiwain are not recognized by the ICAO and FAA. Anyone know about this?

Cheers.