European/US bases China Southern: a lie?
 

Hi all,

Just a heads up for those of you who would be tempted to get a widebody Boeing rating With a euro or US base, Don't go now!

Friends of mine have joined CSA more than 6 months ago And still don't see any of those bases opening anytime soon.


The agencies are lying unashamedly just to get pilots in and then don't look after them as usual.

Only apply if you are prepared to spend 20 or 45 days in a row in Guangzhou and commute on days OFF.

Hope the situation will change soon (in China things can take some time though...)for those who have left their previous jobs for CSA and are stuck there with a 22000$ bond.

Happy landings

They've been doing it for years ... a good friend of mine resigned his command with a Gulf major back in 2008 on the promise of a European base with China Southern ... worked his 3 months notice ... literally the day before he was due to arrive in China to start his training he was informed by email that the European base was no longer available and he would be China based.

They just lie, because they know once you've done your notice at your previous employer you're screwed and you can't go back

The amount of lying that is done in China has to be first experienced, before it can be believed! I also spent some time there. That is one of the reasons why they cannot get pilots even with the amount of money they are offering.
Number one problem is a pollution though. Number two lies, number three they cannot get anything organized. If they could train they own pilots, they would not hire foreigners. But they cannot organize training either. It is a sad state.

China Southern reverse-roster "bases"
 

It's actually a little more complicated. At CSA the fleet manager is "God" and decides these things without any other managerial interference. The Airbus 330 pilots with Australian citizenship are generally quite happy with their numerous reverse-roster "bases" in Australia. I have seen their rosters and they're similar to pilots at legacy airlines in the US and Europe.
For the people wanting Europe and USA basing, it's a bit of a hypothetical. Yes they're using it as a recruitment tool (why wouldn't they?) but based on the success of the A330 Australian bases, there is no reason to believe that it's an outright lie. The story at present is "we need eight line-checked-and-released captains to request a reverse-roster base, then the fleet manager for that type will decide." For the 777, it is expected; for the 787 the answer is a very open and honest "not gonna happen."

People wanting firm guarantees of such things are, quite simply, in the wrong business.

Luke Sky Toddler…

YOU'RE BACK!!!!! Awesome, and welcome back!!

Kap

Interesting.

Do they lie about the DEC on the A330 too then?

Thinking about a base in Oz it doesn't seem unrealistic however I have zero experience working for Chinese people.

Also I hear the medical check you do before joining is atrocious- biopsy of the liver included!!

RUMOUR control...
 

Medical checks in China: it's not as overboard as you sometimes hear. Yes, they nearly always "find something," and you have to fix it. I have not heard of a liver biopsy but a friend of mine actually had to have his gall bladder removed, which sounds bizarre but is true. He's now a 787 captain in China, however, and quite happy even without the gall bladder.

Not that many actually "fail" the medical. Mostly, they just tell you they need this or that report/CT Scan/MRI/24-hr blood pressure report/cheat x-ray/other proof of your being ok. Then after you provide it, they issue your medical, and you're off and running.

It works like that.

Birdstrike;

LOL. Yes you are on your way after the first medical. Until your next medical. The new doctor notices your scar and discovers you don't have a gall bladder and tells you that you need to have a gall bladder transplant, and you are med down until you complete the procedure.

The medicals aren't difficult. They are insane. Literally. They practice medicine like they drive. Have you even seen them drive?

As far as foreign bases, you really can't count on it. Just like western airlines, they change their fleet plans regularly. The CS guys based in OZ are happy at the moment, but next week they might decide to put a triple on the route and they get 2 weeks notice that they are now CAN based. Air China did this to a bunch of European pilots 5 years ago. I met a bunch of them right after it happened. I believe a bunch of them resigned.

If it works out for you, China can be a good deal. I worked at a Chinese airline from 2010-2012. We were treated great. When I got the contract there were 9 expats. A couple of times they got up to 16 or 17, then would go back to 7 or 8. Right now there are only 2 pilots still there that were there when I left.

It is a very insecure job. You never know how long it will last. It is best suited for a pilot on a leave of absence from another airline. If it doesn't work out, which it probably won't, you still have a job somewhere else.

Yeah I figured the reality would be something like that.

Currently Im in the low cost business but I have had enough and want to get out in the big world. Seems to be a few contract jobs out there but hard to compare all options.

Seems to me CAAC are behind the western world, why these medicals that are insane and beyond our EASA class 1?

So the opinion is not to go for it I guess...

Thanks for the heads up guys

I dunno!
 

Lots of people trying for the China Southern 777 direct-entry captain job these days, including more than a few Emirates 777 drivers. Either things are worse than reported at Emirates, or the CSA gig isn't as bad as some people think.
It is definitely true that if you are NOT reverse-roster based on another continent, you had better find a way to love Guangzhou, China, because that's where you'll be most of the time.

Birdstrike737…

It's definitely that things have gotten so bad at EK these days. And will continue to erode. I've heard not only DEC's but FO's as well heading from here to CSA for the T7. Of course, the image is the only thing that matters at EK and as long as it looks good to the outside world… there's no problem. But from the inside…. it's falling apart.

The wheels at EK are slowly starting to fall off…. 100 cabin crew per WEEK resigning. Pursers flying as Grade 2 (Economy… a new hire position) because all the resignations. Crews having to do double turns somedays again, due lack of crew. Both pilots and CC are leaving much more significantly these days than I've ever seen it in my many years here.

That's the reason… Still wish China had non-astronaut physicals. I wonder if someday they will come to realize they can't man their fleet and someone will say… "Ya know… maybe we should lighten up just a bit on our rigid medical requirements". Nah… never happen!

And the winner for the most exaggerated post on Pprune this year goes to......drumroll please.....Kapitanleutnant!

And the winner for the biggest EK management supporter goes to…. drumroll please…. Vfenext!

I think you wanted the "I Love Emirates" thread which is over on… umm… lets' see…. well, I guess there isn't one. WONDER WHY?

But you should start that thread!

I stand by what I say…

K

Vfenext- can you please advise what facts the kapitanleutnant listed are untrue? Awaiting your reply- but not holding my breath!! To be honest I would suggest he has understated the numbers.....

I nominate Kap for UNDER exaggeration. In fact his numbers are off a bit. Actual verified numbers of CC resigning per week is 125-150. Fact my friend. Straight from numerous ab initio training supervisors. Flights going out with several pursers on board, due to the fact that the junior crews are bailing out. CC crews are now doing unannounced double turns due to the fact not enough crews to man the subsequent turnarounds.

Thread drift!!!
 

Guys,
There are numerous threads about the working conditions at Ek. This thread is about 'potential' out basing with CSA. Visit the Middle East forum if you want to join in the numerous threads about EK working conditions.

Lets keep this thread on topic.

Cheers all.

You are correct, Mach85….

Someone had mentioned it was either bad at EK or chinese medicals weren't so bad as to why so many EK guys were leaving for CSA. Just clarifying on that posters comment.

But apologies nonetheless.

Kap.

My limited understanding is that the Oz A330 bases are scheduled pax flights. In effect making it far easier to roster than cargo. The 777 being mainly cargo. The Oz skippers are 'allegedly' very happy. Not surprising really with a home base good salary and as little as 12 nights away. The Europeans I know on the 777 can only look on with envy and the promised euro base seems as distant as ever.

Are there any reverse rostering bases yet in Europe, airbus or boeing?

Nothing in Europe yet... Be careful With agencies wishfull thinking ( or lies...)!

No plan for any Airbus european base I heard of anyway.