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-   -   Spring Airlines (https://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/475453-spring-airlines.html)

radarvector320 27th Jan 2012 03:57

Spring Airlines
 
Anyone know anything about this place? Heard they just roasted a foreign pilot for a minor altitude bust. He lost his whole safety bonus for the year of $12,000 US. Unbelievable. Pretty good money but it's all end-loaded bonuses. I think there are better options with more time off and the pay is paid up front...

USMCProbe 27th Jan 2012 08:49

I Don't know any pilots personally, but know some that know some. They said it is a good outfit. So far they have been paying everything, although I don't believe any pilots have been there long enough to get the "big bonus" at the end. It is a 3 year contract and I have only seen it advertised for a little over 2 years. I could be wrong.

Several of us looked at it and decided against it for the same reason. Too much bonus at the end.

radarvector320 27th Jan 2012 12:41

It's nice to see that other companies in China are paying more monthly rather than dangling the proverbial carrot at the end of the contract. I think people are happier this way and while some Chinese airlines feel that end loading the bonus at the end of the contract is the way to keep pilots I feel it has the opposite effect... I think Spring will have a tougher time recruiting new pilots now that other airlines have seen the light....

USMCProbe 28th Jan 2012 02:17

Yeah, I will take my money up front as well. Most of the new contracts that I have seen written in China have more money monthly, with a small annual bonus, and maybe some of the other things paid every 6 months.

All of us doing this are on our own separate contracts. If someone really wanted to fly for Spring, but didn't like the big bonus at the end (me), they can attempt to negotiate something different. That would be my choice, and if Spring wanted you, they would probably bend.

radarvector320 28th Jan 2012 06:15

Good stuff. They may have to bend or lose guys to better contracts. The "here fishy fishy" might not work anymore....

nearsight 4th Feb 2012 06:50

The bonuses are having the opposite effect the Chinese hope for. They hoped to breed loyalty. In reality people only see the 13.5k they get monthly. The rest is on a wish and a prayer given the Chinese attitude towards written contracts. Dont expect to see any of it. An effort to have the bonuses monthly was rejected.

As stated above a foreign pilot here was just fined 12,000USD for an altitude bust. Fines for being 5 minutes late. Fines for missing jeppesen plates. Fines for "heavy" landings. Fines for rate of descent. Fines for taxiing fast. QAR's are for salary rebates to the company. Fines for just about anything they can think of, and you need not have been PF for the event. Safety has very little to do with it.

Outrageous medicals. Perfectly fit pilots will fail medicals regularly. Both at initial and again at renewals. Little recourse when you do. You will be breathylised regularly at check-in and possibly have your blood pressure checked too.

Training flights. You will spend the first 6-8 months at least in training (100-400hrs Pilot Flying). This consists of regular 4-sector 16hr+ days (3 pilots) with you in the jumpseat for half of it (doesnt count for hours). They use foreign captains as safety pilots for new f/o's. There is no training. A Chinese captain often with little english will just conduct the flight completely as he sees fit with you sitting in the left. When you're in the jumpseat all operations are conducted in Chinese. You are still liable to be fined for cockpit mess-ups when sitting in the jumpseat.

Simulator sessions are conducted many times a year (on days off, not duty days - and in Zhuhai). Each time any Chinese airline (or high-speed Train)has an incident, all pilots in China are sent for retraining. These are in addition to your recurrent training. Each one is full-jeopardy, even the training days. If you fail (and many will do) you will be removed from flying and have to retake the simulator in a months time without pay. Disregard what you think you know, they will find fault. Same goes for check flights.

Leave. Flexibility is difficult. If you need to change your leave they wont let you unless the 2 week period crosses a month-end. This gives them 3 weeks to fly you to FTL limits in each month. Anything else will be rejected.

Kennels for hotels. They use no-star hotels. Most are free or almost free for the airline. Better described as nameless guesthouses in industrial carparks with shocking dirt, stifling heat (or baltic cold)unbearable noise and no facilities whatsoever. You will spend up to 4 days in these at a time. It is illegal to make your own arrangements and the management are indifferent. Locals also complain to no effect and in fact local co-pilots are now being asked to share rooms. A recent foreigner boycott resulted in a mere change of carpet at one "hotel"..! Bear in mind many foreign pilot contracts stipulate 3-star or better - again to management indifference.

Food. Almost all food onboard is prepared by a no-star Chinese hotel owned by Spring. Saying it's sub-standard is an understatement. On overnights expect similar.

Flying itself: There is a complete lack of English all-round. Most company documents are only in Chinese. No cabin crew will understand any briefing or evacuation command. Pushback is in Chinese. ATC will give clearances in Chinese, at times refusing to speak english (see the fines above and Juneyao incident elsewhere).

Flight plans offer zero extra fuel. Contingency is zero percent. More than 200kg extra will be argued by dispatch. ATC will randomly, but regularly keep flights at ~FL250 for hours when planned at ~FL 350 because of unnamed and unpredictable restrictions. You see the dilemma. Despite this your f/o will question strongly any extra fuel as his paycheck depends on it. Monthly fuel bonuses are arbitrary, not based on formula, and far below what was advertised. A bad idea to start with.

In short you are here to fill a seat. Given that most Chinese pilots are on lifetime contracts, the management havent quite grasped the fact that foreign pilots have other options. I think they might learn that soon.
For now they are scratching their heads at why nobody new is coming here...

JotaJota 4th Feb 2012 19:13

Daaam! I went thru a few of these "scenarios or events" in my few years in China, but Spring better get their shiat together if they want to attract and retain.

$12k fine for alt bust? C ya... We had a few over 15 kts taxi/turns, high sink rate and other BS, but the fines were less than a thousand per event.

And the worst, short on FUEL? We (at BCA/Deer) complained that we had WAY too much fuel, and always landed with what, 4000-5000 kilos.

Interesting!!!

On Final 5th Feb 2012 04:10

Spring Air
 
Hello,

Be careful with this airline I know of a pilot that was cooked up there. Stick with the more reliable outfits.

Good Luck,

On Final

Transformer_Man 5th Feb 2012 07:59

Not unique!

QAR busts, adversarial training, bad food and hotels are common. Xiamen was putting crews in a hotel in Hangzhou with prostitution and drug activity. They also used a kennel in Fuzhou for the crews, and even the Chinese didn't like it.

It is not always so bad - sometimes you get a good hotel and decent crew meals.

Briefings are often like talking to the wall. You say it in English, and the copilot translates. You say a short sentence, and he delivers a long lecture until you stop him and insist on a strict translation of your instructions.

There are Communist Party zealots in each company who want operations done their way, and they don't want foreigners contaminating the brew.

$12K for an altitude bust? Par for Confucian flying in the metric system.

Burningavgas 5th Feb 2012 12:46

Nearsight, you did an awesome job describing the work envirorment in China, but you left out one BIG detail......SMOKING!!!!

I am not that familiar with what kind of policies the airlines have here in China in regards to smoking in the airplane, but I can tell you, on the bizjet at my contract company its a major major problem. I just finished my two jump seat observation trips and completed my touch and go's in the actual airplane, and on every single observation leg, the pilots were smoking in the airplane. And not only the pilots smoke in the airplane, but you have an engineer who also smokes in the cabin. I actually thought I could escape the smoke, but then you have this engineer lighting up in the lavatory.

My advice to any foreigner who is about to make the jump to China...buy yourself a good pair of shower shoes because the hotels are the nastiest you will ever stay in. They're filled with smoke and freezing arse cold. If you go to dinner with the Chinese crew, they eat with a cig in their mouth, so its always.....smoke smoke smoke!!!


Ching Ching!!!

springaviator 6th Feb 2012 11:06

$12,000 USD fines...
 
Ladies and Gents,

I can confirm the initial thread statement is true and correct.

A very sad situation that has little logic to it. The gent involved is a foreign A320 captain that was involved in an altitude bust, no TA/RA's were recorded. There is no need to take fault away from the pilot itself, but so as to give a better understanding of what happened on that day I suggest more current Spring pilots add their bit to this thread.
The gent involved was never taken off flying following this event, thus implying he is in no way a threat, there was a minimal investigation by the airline and the results (mainly the radio transmission recordings) have not been made available to this pilot despite his insistence and repetitive requests.
To the best of my knowledge this is a situation that has occurred in the past, in similar circumstances with local pilots. The main issue here is the disproportionate "fine" imposed by the airline to this individual, $12,000USD, versus RMB2,000 for the similar incident were a local pilot was PIC.
This is an abuse of the contractual agreement and is set to be a strong message from the airline to their foreign pilots, mainly and very possibly under pressure from the CAAC.
The set up, non adherence to SOP's, HIGHLY non standard ATC instructions/read backs and overall lack of english proficiency on the part of the latter makes this type of events very frequent. I personally witness several on a daily basis and for the most part I had only "close calls", but I can see this same event repeating it self over and over again.
Most of the guys recruited into this operator have strong to very strong aviation back grounds, most of them with several thousand PIC hours having served in flag carriers and we are all very skeptical about bonuses being paid in the manner they are advertised when recruited. If you are even thinking on joining an expat contract gig do so with both eyes wide open.

In short, Flying in China is no walk in the park. Your license, career and overall sanity can take a beating before you know it. Be warned...

I will be happy to answer any questions relating to this operation in the public forum.

radarvector320 6th Feb 2012 12:04

Good post Nearsight.

You have to wonder about the integrity of an airline that end-loads all of their bonuses. Evidently they are ready to pounce at the first opportunity to withold your bonus (re:12,000$ safety bonus).

One failed medical, one failed sim check, one failed line check and bye bye bonus. Spring Airlines is obviously unwilling to share the risk with their foreign pilots (that they so desperately need) as evidenced by the low monthly pay/bonus based salary structure. If I move myself and family to China it will be for money up front not a promise to pay "If, if, if..." Get with the program Spring. You are falling behind...

springaviator 7th Feb 2012 08:17

Spring Airlines Hotels
 
Hotel accomodation provided by Spring during overnights....
This has been going on forever!! a few of the guys finally refused to fly to some of these dumps. To date, the hotels are the same, no changes, other than a scrub down and a new carpet.
Issues during over nights range from no hot water to take a shower, incredible noise levels (you can hear everything that goes on in your neighbouring room, from coughing to bathroom visits), no temperature control and in some places no heating.
What gives??
a $12,000 USD fine just to put all the pilots in place... that'll learn 'em!


http://65.55.85.183/att/GetInline.as...ec3&oneredir=1

http://65.55.85.183/att/GetInline.as...fc8&oneredir=1

http://65.55.85.183/att/GetInline.as...61d&oneredir=1

goodinchina 8th Feb 2012 08:32

Medicals and sims at Spring Airlines
 
Heard of a guy going through a medical recently, failed the medical and passed it again one month later. Outcome of medicals seem to be a game of black jack. End result was no pay during the "down time", no bonus either for the lack of productivity. Is this true?
Also, several guys fired during their initial training for failing sims and others getting a hard time to receive a clearance letter so that they could go work elsewhere.
Hotels, sims, fines for actions outside the control of the crew, contracts as a base to renegotiate conditions of service...What is going on?
Insiders with more and better details?

boocs 8th Feb 2012 17:59

"What is going on?"

Welcome to China.....

b.

flyingguyforjob 15th Feb 2012 13:31

Great info guys
 
For anyone considering China and certain airlines with end loaded bonuses....Think twice. Maybe the Middle east is a better bet. Or Malaysia, Singapore, Korea, ..many options. In Spring air, you simply dont know if you will ever see that money and with the recent 12k they took from one guy, I think this speaks loud and clear...

airbusdriver2 15th Feb 2012 15:29

Guys this is all true unfortunately. Nearsight has done a fantastic job of describing work life here in spring airlines. That about sums it up. Up to now you could almost put up with the daily struggle of working here because of the money but after this ridiculous totally disproportionate fine quite frankly most of us believe we will lose at least one of our safety bonuses possibly all of them if a simple altitude bust is all it takes. As for the long term bonuses based on what has happened we are all very suspicious now if we will ever see them, they promise a lot but clearly are working out ways to get out of paying. For anyone thinking of coming to work for spring airlines think long and hard about it. There are much better and more secure contracts out there in china not to mention the rest of the world. I fear that spring will learn thus the hard way over the next few years if they don't adapt their thinking. If things don't change I predict a continual exodus over the next few years with little if no contract renewals! This is honestly what it is like guys we have no reason to give false info be careful if you want to join spring there is a lot better out there!

flyingguyforjob 29th Feb 2012 07:46

Look elsewhere
 
Good information.
Seems most agree. They are out to find ways to not pay. And it seems to fit their Strategy. Offer the big bonus and look for reasons not to pay it. I will pass this on to my colleagues for sure. This place seem to be indifferent to the impct their actions have on their reputation !

On Final 29th Feb 2012 09:27

Spring Airlines
 
Hello,

Yes it is true, I would stay away from this Airline. It is not just one pilot roasted, it is the company attitude in gerneral. Remember, if you go to any Chinese airline for work and fail your CAAC checkride you are DONE in China forever. Pilots should be very careful with the first airline they pick in China.

Good Luck,

On Final

StandbyFlowControl 17th Mar 2012 14:47

My current contract's coming to an end and I was thinking of Spring Airlines (China's Ryanair) but I read from a Bloomberg article recently :


Spring Air’s Shen:
“The boom in foreign pilots coming to China may only last a few years,” he said. “When we have more choice in the future, I will prefer our own pilots.”
At least the guy's honest ;) I'm looking for a more stable job and with this statement , and the lottery medicals , and $12000 punishment fines there, it's all far too uncertain and risky for me. The end loading of bonuses is CRAZY. and puts all the risk on the Pilot and not the Airline.

Better to get on into a more secure environment....EK DEC application is in.......;)

Twin2040 18th Mar 2012 21:26

Nearsight - Thanks for a great post - was tempted to try China, but think I stay - on less pay - in Europe

rollingscissors 22nd Mar 2012 01:35

Do not be tempted by China. Many pilots look at the high pay and want it just as hungry dogs want meat baiting a bear trap. It is a very backward place to work and live. Not just Spring Airlines, but the whole thing.

Sure, you get beaucoup yuan and new planes. You also get a wildly reactionary and tempermental aviation authority that thinks nothing of destroying your career. You get a political / economic / social system that will amaze in its capacity to ruin.

Hungry dogs at a bear trap.

Falcon0001 26th Apr 2012 20:21

Nearsight,

What an aptly chosen name. Your description of what is going on at Spring Airlines is well, pretty nearsighted indeed.

And yes, I know personally. I work for an agency dealing with airlines around the World, including China and Spring. If you think the following is biased, this is your privilege.

I was in Shanghai four weeks ago and had a couple of beers with a dozen or so of our Spring expat pilots at the Big Bamboo on Hongmei Lu. What I heard there does quite not match what you and others are saying on this thread about Spring.

In general terms, our pilots told me they are happy at Spring and in Shanghai with the occasional beefs here and there. Yes, people are p....d off with layover hotels. Some of them are downright not acceptable. To say the least, this is still an ongoing campaign. More work in this regard is needed for sure. We are trying.

On the whole, most agreed that Spring has improved a lot since the first arrivals of expats there by Spring 2010. But it has certainly been a learning experience on both sides of the fence.

You are right, airline medicals are a lot more thorough in China than in the West. But I have attended medical exam sessions in China with our pilots and I always have seen an airline appointed doctor present to assist candidates. The idea is not to screw candidates. If there is a small problem, everybody, the airline's doctor, our agency (always present at the medicals) will be there to try and sort out the problem. I have even seen remedial medical procedures undertaken to clear a problem, with subsequent medical acceptance.

Chinese medicals are no worse than Japanese, Middle East medicals or are certainly more lenient than the newly required Air Force medicals in India. We always advise our candidates to prepare for the medical by exercising, cutting down on cigarettes or booze for a couple of weeks before the screening. This seems to help. The major medical deal breakers are mostly related to potential heart conditions, i.e. high blood pressure, high cholesterol count, etc…

But let me tell you, I believe that if you flunk a Chinese medical, my advice is to have a long conversation with your personal physician. You more than likely need that chat.

Training delays are an issue. Line checks take a long time to happen. But once you are checked out, you are OK. People do their flights and go home and, in this case, enjoy Shanghai. Do not go on an expat job with the idea of telling everybody how to do things, whether you are right or not. Do your job than relax.

Pilots who started with Spring in May 2010 have received all their full salary and end of year bonuses in full and on time. Nobody I know there has been docked with a penalty (as of late March when I was there). The biggest gripe is with the layover hotels.

When people accept to work in a foreign country, they accept to live and work by the local culture and local rules. And, yes, there are major cultural differences between Chinese culture (including social mores, business culture, employee/employer relations, etc...) and Western culture. Sometimes the cultural shock can be, well... a shocker. But you will find the same reality in other parts of Asia (Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc...), the Middle East, Africa, etc...

One fact to be taken into consideration is that Asian and Middle East people are more conservative when it comes to making decisions. When people make mistakes, there are consequences. Those can be much more dramatic then in the West. This creates an environment where day-to-day decision-making is much more cautious and conservative. If a major flight test (a CAAC one) is failed, in most circumstances, few people at the airline are likely to take a chance with the unsuccessful candidate. Nor people at other airlines.

Does this means that there no dynamism in Asian societies. Not by a long shot. Just look at the commercial and financial achievements we see today in Asia. But thousands of years old cultures and societies do not change in a few years. Nevertheless, see the China of today and compare with the China of fifty years ago. As the saying goes, the proof is in the pudding.

A lot has been said about Chinese employment contracts. So I will not repeat here all the inanities said in the past about them. But first, one needs to understand the basics underlying the way Chinese employment contracts are written. As previously said in one of the posts in this thread, Chinese are employed for life.

It is thus very hard for Chinese employers to fire employees, Chinese or not. The way around this is to write employment contracts that will encompass and describe as broadly as possible a series of circumstances giving employers the leeway to let go a really unwanted employee. This is why many Chinese expat employment contracts have these long lists of minor and major mistakes.

The major problem with Chinese expat employment contracts is that, in many cases, the English version and the Chinese version of the contract do not match. Most of the times, contracts are translated in Chinese using translation software. This approach leaves a lot to be desired. This is why in many instances, we found that we (nor even Chinese employers) could understand what some of the clauses meant. This is why the airlines and expat pilots are, very often, not in the same page and end up having different interpretations of their contracts. Both are reading a different version of the contract. Most agencies do not care about this.

The agency I work for spent close to 25,000 US$ in independent Chinese translation and legal advice to ensure both the Chinese and the Chinese versions of the employment were as close as possible to each other. Also, we send a blank version of the contract to all the candidates applying for positions with our customers whether in China or not. Candidates know forehand what the employment terms are. No last minute surprise.

In general terms, Spring is no worse, and actually better, than many other Chinese and non-Chinese airlines. Within the constraints of cultural heritage, they have tried and have succeeded in improving themselves. Yes, more improvement possible, indeed. This is a work in progress.

In conclusion, I do not subscribe to your (and others in this thread) general condemnation of all Chinese airlines and specifically Spring Airlines. Most are trying to do better and, yes, will need to get better. Agencies have to educate them on to how to better manage their expat pilots. They will succeed with the help of their agencies.

I know by experience that this is a delicate exercise, a tight balancing act. But, if this done with tact and diplomacy, I know it can work. I have seen it happen numerous times with our customers.

If you want to talk to some of our pilots at Spring, Let me know

I am looking forward to your comments.

theexpat 28th Apr 2012 01:49

If you think the following is biased...
 
Dear Falcon 0001,

I will try to be short and to the point in my answer, people don't read long essays... But I have read yours entirely.
It is quite obvious you are in the business of recruiting pilots and you make a living from it. And I would bet anything, Spring is one of your potential clients, or maybe an actual client... Therefore, you have to defend at any cost your potential source of revenue. That is fair game...

One should not confuse culture and basic rules and regulations pertaining to the aviation world, and to name only one, crew rest facilities for pilots. Don't lose sight of the big picture, they are the ones looking for pilots and if they need us they will have to show they are able to adapt to the situation. Differences in culture does not give them permission to be exempt from following the basic rules. The Chinese are the greatest at making fake products, and aviation is no exception, ''smoke and mirrors'' rings a bell?...
On your last visit to Shanghai, you said you were having beers with the boys, did you stay at the Homeyo hotel, which is the standard 1-1/2 stars? By the way this is the standard for the crew on the road. Or should I bluntly accept it, based on the differences in culture? It is nice to be Zen when you are not in one's shoe.
The pilots are not home every night any more. With the new schedule as of November 2011, they spend half their working days in hotel like the Homeyo or worse in fact...
If you are working for a recruiting agency and represent some pilots at Spring, what have you done to educate the Airline ?
I stand by my comment I made before on pprune. Let's agree to disagree on the subject.

One last comment about the great Asia's success story, don't be fooled, part of it is due to the way they control their currency via the central bank, their very low wages and having no opposition in their governing structure. But this is a different subject.
Keep on working on the cultural differences...

radarvector320 28th Apr 2012 01:57

Falcon0001,

It's pretty obvious who you are and who butters your bread. "Proof is in the pudding"? China's economy is fostered on the backs of it's people. Low wages and no labour rules. I would say Nearsight (based on my research and chats with those in the Chinese aviation community) has done a marvelous job of describing the work enviornment in China. You on the other hand would suffer financially should the truth actually be exposed. Fair enough.

You're obviously an agent. What have you done to improve the situation for the pilots that you've placed there over the last couple of years? Are pilots actually paying for their hotel rooms? Yes they are. What are you doing about that? My understanding is that this issue has been dragging on for months now. These are the little things that you could be more proactive with in terms of improving the quality of life for those that have chosen to work in China. It's things like this that keep me out of China.

Don't use cultural differences as an excuse for the airlines inability to provide better rest conditions while on crew rest or anything else in the name of culture for that matter. To say the Chinese are more conservative in their decisions is the biggest overstatement of the year and frankly points to the fact of how "nearsighted" you are. Their only fear is the QAR. If their "decision" won't be recorded electronically then anything is fair game for them. While parts of your post are somewhat insightful and not as biased as could be given your occupation it does need deeper insight. Perhaps you should get to the bottom of how your pilots really feel...

nearsight 17th May 2012 16:23

I could go on an offensive and revisit his post point-by point, but instead I ask readers to read these posts with the knowledge that I am a pilot in this airline offering advice and insight, whilst Falcon is from a very small "finders-fee" only contract agency with little interest in pilot welfare once they are signed up.

In his post, as in practice, you can see he offers only excuses, not solutions or support.


Further to my post above and given the shortage of pilots in Spring Airlines;
I advise any prospective pilots to negotiate their contract such that all bonuses are to be paid monthly, not annually or on completion. I also highly advise on stipulating a minimum acceptable hotel standard.
Pilots have been asking for these changes (amongst many) from the very start, but only now is the airline is beginning to listen.

Make sure it is in writing, and (with hindsight I may add) make sure you sign with a real pilot agency.


Nearsight
(with hindsight)

springaviator 6th Jun 2012 00:04

Dear Falcon...
 
You would be out of your depth in a parking lot puddle. You wouldn't know a clue if it walked up to you, bit you on the ass, and announced 'I AM A CLUE'. However, I'll consider letting you have the last word if you guarantee it will be your last. To quote Thomas Brackett Reed:"They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge."

Calling you dull is a gross underestimation of just how tedious you are. You have the personality of a damp sponge and the appeal of a moldy sweat sock. Looking at you, Darwin would NOT be pleased to see how inefficiently evolution sometimes works. Maybe you wouldn't be such a Jerk-In-The-Box if you weren't so dense that light bends around you; if your weren't so fat that when you stand on the Speaking Scale, it screams, or if you didn't have a face like a bulldog chewing a stinging nettle while taking a constipated dump in a heat wave. Who am I kidding? You would.

In future, wake up the dozy peglegged hamster operating that wheel-powered brain of yours before you start typing.

TAKE A LOOK AROUND: FINES, HOTELS, SIMS, MEDICALS AND GENERAL ATTITUDE. They have not changed. And by the way, near sighted does have a point, be it in the sarcastic title elected or in the points made for the general benefit of pilots considering such contract. This should put you at ease... or does it not?

de facto 6th Jun 2012 03:08

My airline seems like heaven:cool:

flyingguyforjob 2nd Jul 2012 04:46

penalty culture
 
If you ask me, i would consider a carrier in the middle East. Seems that China is behind the times with their penalty culture. A friend told me they took 12k from a guy for an altitude bust which was due primarily to communication problems. Also, they apparently put the pilots in horrible hotels. A recent contract has a lot of alterations which penalize, for example they have to pay for re-training if they fail any check ride!

WYOMINGPILOT 2nd Jul 2012 04:53

Stay in Atlanta Bob, you won't like it over here, it is horrible!!!!!

de facto 2nd Jul 2012 06:13

yeah it's terrible:E

stinkyfish 4th Jul 2012 02:46

Hang on guys - progress is being made! My buddy tells me they just gave a foreign pilot a month off for improper dress code while on duty AND a financial penalty. Unfortunately another altitude bust by a foreigner recently. Waiting for the verdict on that one. Standby for new atis message. And they wonder why they can't get pilots :ugh:

defaultspeed 6th Jul 2012 06:03

Will they learn!?
 

Seems like the Middle East is the place to be. I have not heard of thesehuge penalties in other parts of the world. I considered leaving the sandbox,but I think I will stay right here. Job security, travel benefits, medicalcoverage, no crazy penalties. Concerning the guy who received the huge penaltyfor an altitude bust..., $12k I believe?... My friend knows him. Apparently theoriginal contract he signed with Spring did not even contain language whichwould legally allow Spring to penalize him that amount of cash!. I agree,Legally, Spring is on shaky ground even trying to enforce this insane type ofpunishment. Even more insane is there apparent inability to see how theseactions are seriously impairing their ability to crew their airplanes. Otherissues which have impacted my decision;

The apparently horrible hotels. I have seen unbelievable pics of some ofthese places and would almost imagine them to be photoshopped, they look soshity.

The end-loaded bonuses.

The contract terms which allow Spring to charge the pilot for RE-TRAINING ifhe fails and sim or training event!?

Best of luck to you there.

flyingguyforjob 8th Jul 2012 05:05

Going to the middle east
 
Are you kidding me?!
A fine and a month off for a dress code violation? Was he walking around the plane in cruise flight naked! What dress code violation would possible give them the right to penalize a guy for a month’s pay!? I also heard another altitude bust happened. Any idea what they finned that pilot? Should be interesting to see how they handle this one. What was the previous altitude violation?....$12k!? Does anyone know if that pilot is going to challenge or has challenged that punishment/fine?

Well, I have elected to go to Middle East. The non-sense you all are dealing with there is beyond common sense. How do theyt hink they are going to retain new pilots let alone recruit new pilots. I heard from another source that a bunch of Spanish guys were scared off during the interview process. Good thing they learned the truth before accepting the position! :D

FAC1fault 12th Jul 2012 03:02

They took 12k for an altitude bust
 
I am the pilot whom received the 12k penalty for the altitude bust at Spring Air. I have avoided posting for obvious reasons, as you might imagine.
However, a few weeks ago, I was asked to post aresponse to “Clear up” the rumors. So, Iwill simply state; There is a provision in the current contract for this type ofpunishment. There is not a provision in my first year contract which wouldcause them to unequivocally penalize me to this extent. The difficulties they are having recruiting new pilots could be easily solved with a repeal of this heavy fine. I hope this clears things up a bit.

USMCProbe 12th Jul 2012 10:08

My contract at my Chinese carrier ended over 3 weeks ago. I was just informed that I had an "absence" from my scheduled simulator that I was scheduled to be in yesterday. I wonder if they will try to fine me for this?
You gotta love working in China. Or not.

JotaJota 12th Jul 2012 18:55

FAC1 that's total BS. $12k for an altitude bust. With the 50 mile lateral and 2k feet+ vertical separation they use in China... What a joke!

USMC, now that's funny... You missed your sim session... LOL! Where are you hdg now? Back to the states?

climbhappy 13th Jul 2012 02:56

funny how perception is reality.

i like flying in china...once i got pass the culture shock..
the people are overall friendly...yes i know about the caac and the crazyness. but it is not entirely overall.....

i like the country...have many chinese friends and hope to stay many years. have been 2 years...

for me it is about attitude and thankful i have a good job. it seems to work for me..

all the best!
happy landings

Bolshevik 13th Jul 2012 12:48

Springaviator
 
:= That was funny as hell :D

climbhappy 14th Jul 2012 03:22

laughter is good for the soul...im doin just fine...got to go..my chinese girlfriend needs servicing again..geez it's only 1122..


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