indian nationals on fata
 

Why have the moderators deleted the thread???


agent123 can you please forward the information, we sure can find some place to publish.. after all as you said it was public information...

no matter what moderators of these forums thinks, pilot licenses details are public.. at least in India... and these which have been granted on shady pretexts must be made public for the benefit of all...

agent123 had posted a list of Indian Nationals working on FATA, and at least two of them were not even mentioned in FAA registry and one had no address updated on the registry...

As per 14CFR a FAA certificated pilot cannot exercise privilleges of the certificate unless he has the latest mailing address in the registry..

Its privacy vs safety....

jimmygill,

pls check your PM.

i've uploaded the docs that I got from the DGCA in response to my RTI on my google docs account.


--Agent123

hey agent123, can you pls forward me also the documents u got from DGCA regarding FATA ?

lets do something about this in a united way.

We can gather numbers and pressure DGCA to revoke all these FATAs.

i mean WTF, there are 3000+ CPL holders, and these guys with FAA CPL and doing self sponsored rating without converting their foreign CPL to Indian CPL are being employed.

Im in touch with all members of Unemployed Pilots Welfare Association (UPWA). I'll forward those documents to them too.

agent123 please forward the documents to id "airforce13"

Thread got binned entirely due to your self centred, childish and entirely hypocritical response.

Is the problem in India really a handful of FATA right seaters or the thousands of you, the zombie army, who marched relentlessly to who ever would take your money to qualify for completely non existent jobs?

No due diligence by thousands upon thousands of you, believing every bit of cynical sales patter, stripping families of savings and offering no possible return on that investment in the short and medium term.

And here at PPRuNe Towers what most disgusts us about you, the Indian contingent, is that not one of you has the guts to go on the wannabees forum to tell the truth to the wide eyed and innocent arriving there every week from the sub continent. No reality check regarding the mess in India that they are so desperate jump into head first.

Immature ranting against a tiny, miniscule minority rather than some basic honesty for those trying to repeat the mistakes thousand of you have made.

How very, very impressive.

Rob

Weather we zombies go and spend our monies in flight schools or casinos in Vegas is none of your **cking concern as long as we are legal in what we are doing.

The thread starter merely listed a list of individuals who had been flying in India as expats by influencing the all corruptible DGCA.

Its people like you who make believe that spending a considerable time at 8000 feet pressure altitudes does degrade basic thinking skills.

"I made ma mistake long time back, I am flying a 777 now, son you should stay away from this" thats what you call mature.



Your myopia sees the action as against a bunch of individuals, while its aimed at introducing accountability in the system in which participation of public at large is required.. well keep it under the covers... because its is not upto some dimwit's measure of maturity.

The problem is you are trying to make it everyone's concern. If you are that concerned about the "injustice" being done, why don't you start your own website and get the software to run your own forum? You will be the master of your own destiny in that case and we will not have to keep hearing about how the world is against you.

I have worked in India on several contracts for a rather large aircraft company based in France and to be honest with you, there isn't enough money in the world to make me do any sort of flying in India.

The hypocritical attitudes that are embedded in the culture just never cease to amaze me. Your constant posts are just another example of what I am talking about.

Please take your whinging somewhere else!!!!

It is everyone's concern, one of these jokers will some day fly a A320 in hot summer with more than allowed load and crash. If they have not got in the right seat through competition they are not the best.

It is not mandatory for anyone to read all the threads on pprune. Which forum I use is my choice alone.


That you perceive my posts as hypocritical is indicating your bias. One of the hallmark of hypocrisy is inconsistency, you will definitely find it in Indian culture but not in my posts... hypocrisy is when what you will normally appreciate in your country suddenly starts amazing you when it happens in other countries, especially in a 3rd world one like India.

Oh yes, pprune is just a forum about boasting how one worked on several contracts on a rather large aircraft company in france. Everything else is whinging[sic].

If your arguments can't stand for themselves, thats when you need the force of large-aircraft-company in France.

And no matter how much you want to console yourself, its just the people like you have a small price tag. Not all the money in the world but just a miniscule fraction of it is enough to buy you.

So JG,

A lot of thunder and lightning there. Bluff and bluster really - could it be that all that noise in your two posts is simply intended to hide the fact that you've ignored the salient points made.

Thousands upon thousands of fully qualified but completely unemployable commercial pilots in India

An utterly corrupt aviation administration

A never ending line of shysters and con men inserting themselves in the wannabees path at every point they can extract money.

But, most shameless of all, your nauseating jumping on the band wagon bleating about a handful of FATA right seaters yet never a word on our wannabees forum from a 777 pilot for the hundreds of Indian citizens applying to and already filling the flying schools regarding the hopelessness of what they are doing and the numbers of unemployed already back in India.

So, widebody sage with the best interests of all Indian aviators or or attention seeking, posturing poseur jumping on angry bandwagon of the day? Your posts are full of noise and anger but only on carefully chosen, rabble rousing areas. You know and I know that with every expat sent home tomorrow there would still be no jobs for more than 95% of the unemployed short and medium term. You jump on every available bandwagon to anger the unemployed but never actually get around to telling them the truth regarding what they have done and what they face .

Why is that JG? Our Wannabees forum is full of experienced airline pilots telling the western wannabees the truth about the path they are taking or intent on taking. What cultural difference is it that means you stir the crap in every possible way on this forum but never actually tell the truth to the students and unemployed here? What is it about Indian culture that means no experienced working pilots from your nation are here telling the truth to the wannabees and the unemployed?

Are you essentially just as corrupted as those you rail against?

Right folks,

While Jimmy works himself up into a righteous tizzy of indignation lets all ask ourselves a few questions.

We think about 1500 qualified but unemployed in the UK. We consider that desperate and awful even within a system many, many times bigger and more busy than in India.

Why is it we have threads you can look at right now in the wannabees forum extending to over 100 pages and devoted to warning students over the last 3 years just what they were letting themselves in for?

Why no equivalent here?

Why is it that for the Europeans and Brits the threads were full of posts from experience, working airline pilots giving those on the outside, looking in the truth of what was happening in their company?

Why no equivalent input here?

Why do the wannabees have a long term sticky on schools and their tricks to get more money from you but nothing here?

I've got lots more question to add but you might want to a suggest some of your own. Some of you might also want to place a few pointers and links to the threads on our wannabees forum that show what I am talking about. Some might wonder why they can see posts from Indian hopefuls that never get any form of response from people who have actually qualified and gone through the system. Indeed, you might want to point out the self help that has gone on in this forum regarding spotting and publicising scamsters.

I find it very puzzling that those above you, already within the system provide you, the students and the qualified, with far less information that the expats working in Indian companies. Why do you think that the Brit and European guys get so much information from actual working airline pilots and you don't?

Rob

You see hopelessness for them I don't.



Blaming someone of trying to seek attention on an anonymous forum, you have got some imagination. What is poor anonymous JG going to do with this "attention".

The unemployed will face what they have done and will face more if they sit around. "95% unemployed" you have no clue about aviation here. Don't get too angry I cannot cure your ignorance.


Well! isn't telling that some unscrupulous few can get into right seat without clearing the Indian Exams not enough a 'truth' for you.

Isn't it 'truth' enough that the percentage of expats hired as training captains is way below the recommended standards, and even those who have been hired as TRE/TRI are being underutilised for training activities.

Why would any 777 captain in world only have exact 500 hrs flying time on 777 and quit his/her airline to join as expat in a 3rd wold country, with a corrupt system, dirt, pollution, hypocrisy and children ****ting on streets unless of course those 500 hours are from a pay to fly operator or just have been filled in the logbook and rubber stamped.



You can assume what makes you feel comfortable.

Oh, I see. So now you are saying because there is no competition these "jokers" will crash. Interesting. So, what about you? Did you finish with the highest scores in your training? If not, then you must be one of those "jokers" too. After all, only the best should be allowed to fly.

Your arrogance is amazing. The simple fact is you have no clue on how the real world works. The fact is people meet the standard or they don't. If someone has the necessary qualifications to do the job then they should be allowed to do the job. If you are like the countless other Indian FOs I have flown with you complain about all the Expats in India, but you can't wait to leave and go to the likes of EK, EY, QR, SQ and the list goes on. The whole world is against you. Oh woe is me!!!

You know nothing of where I come from or what my background is. Your arrogance is reconfirmed with your comments and attempts to deflect any negative comments one might have towards you and your attitudes.


What type of drugs are you on? How do you make the kind of leaps in logic (I should say illogic) that you do? I know you are going to tell me that you want to be a pilot for the love of the job. Please, grow up. What I do and what I get paid to do it is of no concern of yours. How dare you make a broad sweeping statement that says I can be bought! One of the simple reasons I will never set foot in India is the constant pressure applied by management at the airlines there to pass pilots who have no business being in a cockpit. That applies to both seats. I don't care who someone's father, uncle, mother, fill in the blank is. If I am not willing to place my family on the aircraft they are flying they need to do something else to make ends meet.

Your resorting to a personal attack just illustrates how desperate you are in trying to justify your actions. Should anyone critise you there will be a price to be paid. I hate to tell you but I have had worse things said by better people than you.

AMF!!!!

Of course only the best. You are right I finished with the highest scores. But the guy with the lowest score is flying the jets.

This is how it works, there are people like me and you, I am in this real world, the real world is not some imaginary place which excludes me. If the Emiratees, Qataris and Singaporeans don't want expats, I am with them too.

Either raise up all the walls or raze them all down, no one way preferential entries please. Razing the walls is going to be difficult so I chose to erect on my side of the world. If all the walls are up I hope the futility will be revealed. Its not the whole world thats against me its just the expats.

Same applies to you, you know nothing of me or what my background is.

Ever heard of tit for tat. If you hurl a stone at me, I am not gonna throw flowers at you.



My actions need no justifications. You would have got a better treatment had you stuck to the standards which you expect other to treat you with.

And when you say that people better than me have said worse things to you, I don't doubt a bit of it.

JimmyGill, i understand your anger but these guys are right. And there is no point in bashing each other on an internet forums, nothing will change.....

Indian aviation is very much corrupt so this matter is not really a surprising one. Many of us airline pilot here in India are well aware of this kinda situations and there are even more worst things going on within the industry. The unemployed pilot situation is going out of control, each year the thousands are adding up and its very much clear that some of these thousands will never make it as pilots even if the hiring picks up.

And also the unemployed pilots will be more concerned about finding a job than to waste their time looking for pilots who got in with influence or this flying on fata. Even if they do there wont be much hope in this corrupt system, NO offense to the unemployed pilots in India but you guys have no power at all and cant change anything less inside the system because you haven't even got into it in the first place.

Oh, you are accountable to no one. Why am I not surprised.

You should consider this advice. And you should get a life!!!

AMF!!!!

Here you go jumping the guns again, and assuming that vserian's advice is applicable to me. I remind you, you have no clue about my employment situation.

You are 100% correct. And better yet, I could care less!

I do have a question for you. In my current position, among other things, I am involved in screening DEC for an airline. I recently screened an Indian National who was a 320TRI for a privately owned Indian Airline who's headquarters are in Mumbai.

If things are so great why would he want to embark on a commute of at least one connection, in excess of 24 hours travel time one way and have 10 days off every 21 days?

Funny thing is we didn't take him because after doing a little checking it seems he had doctored his certificate and when we did a little further digging it seems there were some issues with his current/former employer.

I am still trying to figure out just what your point is, but I have so many other things to do......:ugh:

AMF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

JG ...thats funny "you have no clue about my employment situation."

Unemployed sitting at home being a bitter twisted person behind a keyboard isn't a a recognised job when I last looked.

But seriously Jim your funny. .... I love reading your posts you never cease to amaze me how much hatred and at the same time how much stupidity can come out of a person. Keep up the good work at amusing us !

Let me try and get this straight in my head!

So JG you DO have a FLYING JOB in India and you are upset that there at INDIAN nationals who are flying on FATA licenses?? WHY???

And if that IS that case, you would like DGCA/someone out there to throw out these indian guys and thesejobs should be given to foreign nationals (expats) who should then be allowed to come in on fly in India???
Is THAT your masterplan?? I dont mean to look down on you I am just curious as to what your intentions are here...

I think after the THROW EXPATS OUT IF INDIA thread this is the most incredibly confusing thread I have come across!
(P.S. let me clarify right now that I am ALL for Expats being in India, I have learnt more about smarter flying technique and safe operational procedures from them than senior Indian captains; most of whom do know how to fly but none seem to know how to pass on that crucial knowledge to another pilot for some reason!!!)

And Jimmy are you serious when you say :
How can you even say that specially if you are in the industry?? Where in our present setup can we absorb all these guys and girls who are coming back with the 250hrs in their logbooks with no GA/negligible corporate or aircharter ops! Last I heard we are up to CPL 10500 in the good books of the DGCA.

Think about it; 1929 JRD Tata held CPL 1.. Till the late 90s the number was less than 3000 and now in a span of 10 years we have 7000 plus and more are returning. How in the world do you see Indian aviation giving jobs to everyone specially now that the Lot that got in the 2006-2007 are up for command and filling in the spots held by expats???

Even simple crew requirement calculations will show that you need as many as 1400 aircraft inducted tomorrow to even give these guys a shot and that is if they are still current and upto the task. Most of the my fellow trainees have not even been inside an aircraft in the last 3 years since they got the license..:ugh:

We all know how India works. I call a spade a spade and most people dont like it but here goes.
You know who crib about others getting in through influence??
The ones who dont have any! :D

If you could get someone to help you in, you wouldnt cry about it and believe it or not its the same ALL OVER THE WORLD! I have said this before and I will say that again. If your father was senior captain/manager or you knew the Chief Pilot in AI/9W/KF/6E wouldnt you too have the same leg up. Happens in EVERY profession.

If you are naive to think thats not so, well i guess no one can convince you. Is it fair that only those who have money and can pay for TR are getting hired right now? Maybe, Maybe not, but airline business is just that a BUSINESS!
If an airline can get a pilot who is willing to pay for it, and right now there is not dearth of such pilots in india, why would they spend a penny on you even if you are freaking best pilot in the world??

Aviation has always been WHO YOU KNOW initially and then WHAT YOU KNOW! Like it or lump it.

You come across as a guy who never did a lot of research into HOW the line works. You might be "passionate" about flying and have the "right stuff" but your entire argument sounds like its coming from someone who is now disillusioned coz others beat him to that jet job!

Rather than working here to forming a alliance to get DGCA to throw out some 10-20 odd guys who spent pots of money, it will be worthwhile to try and get the DGCA to have more practical and realistic standards of flight crew licensing and training and evaluation! :ok:

Cheers..


I live by a code and the code is simple: Dont hit something you din plan to hit and even then be gentle for heavens sake!

JG, I understand your anger, unfortunately the rot and corruption is systemic. The FOs on FATAs are few and far between and I doubt a witch hunt is going to solve the unemployment crisis. Regarding the skill set of these FOs, some are excellent while a few leave a lot to be desired (i.e. typical of the competence levels of FOs found in India).

Reckon I am qualified to make the above observation, being an Indian national flying the A320 in India as a line Captain on an Indian ATPL. My previous jobs included working many long years as a FAA CFI (Flight Instructor) and later as a Regional Pilot, in North America. Years of hard work before I moved into the A320. However I cherish every single one of these years, because I believe I became a better person first, and maybe even a better pilot!

I did forget to mention, I sponsored my own Flight Training, and my US Bachelor’s Degree (read-NO Bank/Family loans) by working on Merchant vessels for 10 years soon after High school.

After 3 years of flying in India it’s time to head back to the US. The small mindedness, pettiness, sense of self-entitlement, unscrupulous, un-professional behavior I experience, leaves me little choice. In India way too much importance is given to getting the job, often employing practices that are not above-board. It’s almost like the get rich quick Nigerian 419 scams! Pity, this country has potential; unfortunately it will never be realized.

We seem to forget that at the end of the day all that really matters is going home to the wife and kids and giving them that all encompassing hug and kiss!