KAL- no show
 

It lookes like the fan got hit by the....

People read this Forum and got wise? During the past courses and interviews the no show rate increased and the people who where desoerate (brave) enough? decreased that on some dates 50% of the expected seat where empty when the course where due to start of the interview took place.

It lookes like that China opens the gate soon and then the price tag will go up. Time will tell....

Cheers

If KAL couldn't fill those seats during this time where the disparity between Pilot supply and demand was so much in their favor, they definitely won't in the years to come. I see a major re-adjustment in their growth plans.

The market is turning. Everyday, there is a new airline with an ad for Pilots. Airlines have merged and consolidated. Age 65 is around the corner for many in the states and EU. Even if there is not growth in these regions, retirements will drive employment.

Won't be surprised if some in Kimchiland do a runner when things turn around!

Soon you will be doing every ground training ON YOUR OWN TIME on line with their very strange computer based training system which requires you to DOWNGRADE your PC...no time off for study, no free internet connection and very unfriendly crewlink messages/reminders if you are just 2 weeks from a deadline to complete an online course! I WILL RUN given the chance!

Gee, how can one accept to do company business ( recurrent ground school and other peripheral training IS COMPANY BUSINESS ) on your own free time? How can first world pilots ACCEPT this while happily criticising poor third world pilots for accepting less than ideal deals?

Yes Akali very good point. Ground school and type-rating etc are company business and should never be at the pilot's expense. As bad as Korean may be however I don't believe they have stooped this low yet (?)

But the no-shows and general dissatisfaction with life in Korean tell a bigger story. Like any airline, KAL will need to significantly and rapidly improve the way expatriate pilots are treated or they will not fill cockpit seats and the business will suffer dramatically.

Of course this works both ways - expats need to be culturally sensitive and discrete (sometimes lacking in my observation) but at the moment the onus is on KAL to make life better for their foreign crews. Many of us have choices as to where we offer our professional pilot skills and at present KAL doesn't ad up.

From what I know the ones out of job with nowhere else to go, KAL offers a good commuting contract as long as you can tolerate the shafting every now and then. The good ones with opportunities coming up as soon as things improve are most certainly going to run.

The ones remaining are a combination of astute operators who have the guile and fortitude to put up with the Korean **** plus a whole bunch of riff raffs who will not get anywhere. These riff raffs are a disgrace to the expat pilot communities and usually get into trouble unnecessarily putting all other expat pilots in bad light. Most come from dodgy backgrounds with dubious hours and ratings but somehow made it through the hoops. You can sniff them out miles away, either in the scruffy jeans waiting to rush in for the meal coupons ( earning derisive looks from the local guys ) or claiming travel or other privileges for a host of step children, etc. To these blokes, KAL is heaven sent. However, sooner or later the KAL management gonna tighten the screws and everyone gets hit.

Watch out......the fashion police is out on the prowl!!

Hi!

At the job fair in Las Vegas about 10 days ago, KAL had the biggest entourage and spent the most money trying to find pilots.

I WOULD apply, but I am too old for FO and don't meet the mins for Capt.

EK is moving the same direction, with the same problems as KAL. EK HAS been lowering their minimums.

Vietnam may be starting to have this problem, also.

JetBlue and Delta just annonced hiring. The number of new pilot/PPL/Commercial Pilots/ATPs in the US have been declining year-over-year since 2000, the Flight/Duty/Rest rules will be changed to reduce the amount of flying that US pilots can do, and the requirements to be a new-joiner for Part 121 (commercial airlines) will be rased soon. There have been, basically, 0 pilot retirements since Nov, 2007 in the US. Due to all of the above, when Nov, 2012 hits, and the Age 65 guys finally start to retire, there will be a bloodbath for recruiters, and it will hit the overseas airlines that need to hire expats the hardest.

cliff
LFW

Good old astute woody really hit it right on the head. Before I left, there was an influx of these guys from Eva and Dynasty........my God, what a strange lot who descended onto the ICN office in droves to get the meal coupons, obstructing crew who were about to be prebriefed for flight. I cringed everytime the local guys threw up their hands in exasperation, rolling their eyes! Imagine my disbelief the last few weeks when I was in flight administration to sort out my departure, the admin guy showed me guys claiming travel privileges with step kids with names like the united colors of Benetton! So many ethnic backgrounds and the admin guys really have problems trying to verify. These fellas must be collecting relics from Latin America, the Middle-East and now the Far East! When they descend onto the Hyatt Crew lounge, holy moley.........what a racket, it's like Latino town!

Runner
 

Chuck Canuck,

You where right, it seems like that more people do "runners" now. That is a true response to the fact how they get treated. Not welcomed, not listened, not respected, just a obstacle that can produce some time a month to some unwanted destinations or unpleasant patterns. Mostly professionals who do a job and have seen more and be able to compare it for the better.

If the conditions are more getting down the drain then more are leaving. Most of them are sticking to the contract and giving the 3 months in advance or paying the price. There will be still one or the other runner....

Fly safe and land happy

NG

Very true. 'Shafting every now and then' is common everywhere, just a matter of how much and which side of the fence you are. ;)

Just enjoy life and flying while oneselves can, guys! Enough will never be enough, just human!

Happy flying!

So why don't Korean simply make the T&C better (more days off at home or basings everywhere they fly) thus retain more aircrew and improve the airline's own financial viability?

Screwing pilots as they are now will only continue to hurt their own business because pilots will just always flee at the earliest opportunity.

Airlines are expanding rapidly, thousands of aircraft are on order globally but very few pilots are there to fill seats. KAL will be the first to suffer.

I've heard several stories of R.K. cornering pilots and asking, "Why are so many pilots quitting?"

Oops! There goes the mini khan's empire building ambitions! Is he still hounding guys to go for the " safety " meetings? Those boring brainwashing/indoctrination/reeducation sessions.

Come on, Sunny. It ain't no brainwashing, just disseminating some company info and highlighting boo boos by the korean boys. To top it, guys get some free booze and a dinner thrown in! Don't be such a sour puss.

Richard get a brownie point for every poor sod he drags to the safety meetings. Right about empire building but unfortunately it's an empire of riff raffs. A foreign skipper was docked for returning to gate for extra fuel when he did not even know that he had the necessary the takeoff fuel for the trip. Should see the smirk on the local LCP and LIP faces!

Well our local LCPs are equally guilty of letting a lot of these foreign riff raffs through the hoops! Also a lot of the riff raffs should have been detected during the sim training and checks, but as usual the Alteon people let their fellow foreigners through very very easily!

Quote:

---

Soon you will be doing every ground training ON YOUR OWN TIME on line with their very strange computer based training system which requires you to DOWNGRADE your PC...no time off for study, no free internet connection and very unfriendly crewlink messages/reminders if you are just 2 weeks from a deadline to complete an online course! I WILL RUN given the chance!

---

Very true.


Most come from dodgy backgrounds with dubious hours and ratings but somehow made it through the hoops. You can sniff them out miles away, either in the scruffy jeans waiting to rush in for the meal coupons ( earning derisive looks from the local guys ) or claiming travel or other privileges for a host of step children, etc. To these blokes, KAL is heaven sent. However, sooner or later the KAL management gonna tighten the screws and everyone gets hit.

Also very true. Have never seen so many cheapskate guys in my life. Absolutely embarassing and discouraging.

a little help would be great
 

Hi all,
The insight on Kal is good to know and I can see there are a lot of things you have to deal with.
Although I would still welcome the chance to fly for them. I have nine years in the industry in commercial operations and over 6,500hrs flying light turbo-props. I still long for that day where I will be flying Jets! Purely through circumstance and missed opportunities that I find myself in this situation. Unfortunately with a family in tow it’s only getting harder to make a Buck (Pound) especially in this level of flying and still support the family.
And yes in this level of flying you have to be prepared to put up with the B.S. i.e. Load your own bags, be a flight attendant, as well as wash the aircraft (last one was a joke, although I don’t want to give the boss any ideas)
Long story short with all negative stories that I’m hearing in this post , it couldn’t be any worse than where I am now, so is there anyone out there willing to provide me with a point of contact so that I may email a resume to Kal, or maybe another company that is hiring in Asia.
If you could pm it would be much appreciated
PS. I do not hold any type ratings and just have 120hrs in light jets (hawker 400)
Good luck to you all.
Flap 20 please