wow99- the question is who is buying????

also the drama the fia did, was revealing - showing no direction no cooperation amongst the airlines.

meanwhile, anyone knows how many ar training in lhr for the a330 for singapore and hk?

does vjm lose his lhr spot if he withdraws from blr and does not start another sector/:8

All training in India for 320 and 330.
HK SIN training in sim.
LHR slot will go to Delhi Lhr Flt.

maybe they should be allowed to serve Liqour on board flights, den that way they can make extra money with the delicious kingfisher beer. Only problem is, the pilots might drink all the profits FIRST. hehe. :ok:

Kingfisher might be going the Ryan air way!!!:hmm:

Kingfisher Red may start charging for food - Corporate News - livemint.com

Airlines FDI investment on hold: Not good for Kingfisher.

Foreign airlines' FDI bid fails to take off- Policy-Economy-News-The Economic Times


Also Air India opposes Kingfisher to fly Delhi - London route.

Delhi-London route: Nacil opposes Kingfisher - Corporate News - livemint.com

re
 

Looks like two things:

1) Air India is spending more time trying to combat the competition rather then clean up their completely inefficient airline. They are overstaffed, underqualified, and unorganized...more so then any airline in the world. The pilots and flight attendants are good chaps/gals and hard working too. Hopefully they will privatize it, allowing more room for competitors to actually compete!

2) Kingfisher is going from one unprofitable route to another? Sell the damn LHR slot...they'd make money of it! Jet was cancelled one of their flights, and sold it for more money then they had lost on that sector.

Now, I've seen on Kingfisher's wikipedia page they have 135 orders. I know they have xld alot...does anybody have any Idea how many orders they have?

Despite all this abrupt stop and backwards movement in the industry, boeing is still predicting massive growth and airlines still have tons of orders? Is this because they simply can't get rid of the orders, or do they actually expect to become profitable?

I believe KF was suppose to be profitable by 2007 (ha), I don't think they envisioned this mess!

A wise man once said: You want to become a millionaire? Start with a billion dollars, then start an airline. I believe it was the great Richard Bronson. I think Vijay just missed that when he was sippin his whisky with old chap Richard!

By the way, somebody give me a job!!!!!!!!!!

900 TT
350 Jet
Indian/FAA CFI/CPL

Willing to fly ANYTHING...except for a 172 for spirit :ugh:

ATR bases
 

Just out of curiosity, what are the bases that ATR pilots get?

The ATR bases are chennai,bangalore,hyderabad,mumbai,pune,delhi,kolkata.

KFA has started throwing expats out.:ok:

I am EXpat ,Thats why KFA has just offered me a job:rolleyes:

The news of expats being given pink slips is not aimed at anyone.Its the latest news thts all.Yes,KFA may recruit expats for ATR as few indians are captains there.

THe Indian Aviation market keeps changing, and there are so many different conflicting reports that it is hard to keep track.

Never trust the Indians! They will talk you in to coming over by promising the World, and then fire you without even batting an eye lid. Happened to a French guy at KF. Left his job and came over. 2 weeks after he arrived in India, was given the pink slip. This is the way India is ...

WHAT?!
 

NEVER TRUST INDIANS? I"M INDIAN!

You suck i'm glad your friend got the pink slip, maybe he was another arrogant expat.

Hire and Fire
 

Hmmm yes this is a very Indian thing to hire and fire, infact it us the Indians who developed it. I have never heard of anyone ever from any other country doing this. Absolutely disgraceful and disgusting! :ugh:

Wetdrops in case you have not sensed the sarcasm :p...........This is business. Maybe the expat was a moron, I am sure the fine print in the contract allowed him to be "laid off" or he would have gone screaming to court for compensation. And oh yes he did quit his other job for more money and he is above 18 and a mature adult, so that was his choice.

Always read the fine print and stop pointing a finger at others cause the other 3 point back at you :yuk:

Which court are you talking about. The highly efficient Indian courts already have more than 3 crores cases pending.:rolleyes:

Well, anyway he could have waited another 100 light years for the decision and would have been happy if the result was in his favor.:p

The Hindu Business Line : Pending court cases

Courts
 

Schumi

You are very generous with the court date. I would have made it double your estimate. Point I was trying to make however was that a contract drawn up is thoroughly vetted by the carriers lawyer to ensure if they pull a stunt like this they can get away scott free. Expat probably went to a lawyer (not knowing the Indian system) and realized nothing is coming of it.

Point I am making, is buyer beware clause. Read the fine print and make an informed decision and then don't cry when the consequences do not work out. On a flip side he could have joined, Delhi Belly did not agree with him, he missed his green pastures i France and bolted overnight. What would the airline have done in this case????

Well, one area where they are definitely expanding is grounding of aircrafts. I just saw VT-KFH parked up in DEL and its engine, under-carriage nicely wrapped in plastic. That makes three in DEL !!!!

Arigold,
No personal insult was intended or directed. Unfortunately, this is the truth that most of the Expats faced at KF. You may try to hide it, but there are 30-40 odd expat pilots that were sent home, after so many promises were made.

It indeed is an ugly situation. Specially, when some of those expats that were laid off, gave up secure, well paying jobs to be part of the good times!

As for arrogance ... that should have been nipped in the bud (ie .. during assesment and interview). Airlines screen their candidates in many areas. They are not offered employment just because they have a flying license and experience. This is the professional way of sourcing pilots.

Sadly, in todays aviation environment, contracts keep changing. For the expat pilots as well as for the Indian pilots. I would like to remind you of the Indian DGCA ruling regarding 6 months notice to your Employer, if you are to vacate post. What happened to that?? There was clear evidence that the Employer had violated many of the contracts and the notice period was reduced to 30 days.

If you decide to work for a foreign airline, would you not want to be treated fairly and justly? How would you feel if your Employer broke every single promise that they made, after you joined the Company? Or are you a person who enjoys seeing people being thrown out on to the streets??

Think about it?? The truth unfortunately hurts and I do not want any pilot (French, Indian or any other nationality) to go through what that poor French guy went through!!

@wetdrops

The question is - why is this an INDIAN phenomenon ?
(Not that I'd mind any expat reading this and deciding not to join. More jobs for locals and all that....)

A light year is a unit of distance. :}

Well guys , what goes around comes around.Wetdrops is right no other nation changed the terms and conditions as fast as the airline companies in India.And there are many who should take the blame for that.But as I said....what goes around.....many Indian pilots have been given in the boot is SQ and MI.Why don't you ask them what it feels like to be shown the door when you have a lot riding on that job...maybe then you'll understand what the expats here went through.At the end of the day we are pilots , we should ensure that the right guys get in and stay in,there's no place for the colour of the skin.:ok:

dgtl887,

I am not suggesting that this is only an Indian phenomenon. I am merely shedding light on something, that I know, that happened at KF to a fellow pilot. I agree with AriGold ... this could (and most likely) be happening elsewhere in the World.

At SQ and most other reputable airlines, expats are not just thrown on to the streets. Their contracts are not renewed and are advised well in advance of this. Regardless of the financial situation of the airline, their contracts are honoured, to the end. This gives a person adequate time to secure another job or plan ones finances accordingly. Unfortunately, this is not the manner pink slips were handed out in India. This applies to both pilots and cabin crew (ie; JetAirways cabin crew sacking, last year!).

Thank you Sky Dancer. You are absolutely right ... no other airline company change terms & conditions as fast as Indian airline companys do. To them, a contract is just a piece of paper! Thats why the Indian pilots cried foul and brought it to the notice of the Indian DGCA!!!

There is an aviation crisis all over the World (not only in India)!! It is so difficult to secure a job as most airlines have simply stopped hiring. The few airlines that are, are flooded with pilot applications. So, yes AriGold! If there is a job offer in India, most pilots would be back. One would be a fool not to take the opportunity. All of us have responsibilities (financial, personal, social and towards our Family). But at least, thanks to open discussions and forums like this, individuals would be more aware of whats going on where, when they take up employment!!

Well one must face the reality that eventually all the expats would be phased out. Right now about 20 have been laid off,in about 2-3 mnths another 20 can be expected to be laid off,it all depends on the number of indians taking command.Indian captains cost less to the company than the expats,simple business sense.Though its sad that many good ones have been laid off.

elsewhere in the forums,
Jet is planning to hire new pilots expats ?

no
 

no, just a threat.

Oh Wannabe, you speak like a babe.............read the small print in an Indian contract?...........go to an Indian Court for justice?

Come off it my friend just try and grow up faster, would ya?

These guys are right ofcourse as no other Country or Airline (except ones with an image problem) would have behaved the way the 5 Star crap treated it's expats. They were the guys who were qualified to fly in poor weather conditions (which saved face for the 5 star mogul during last winter - perhaps you didn't know that?).

Well, being grateful is one thing and being treated right is another.....but both were lacking in India, my friend so please don't tell those experienced guys how to suck eggs.:\:\:\:=

Moderate
 

Moderate,

I appreciate the expat experience and feel it is very good for Indian aviation. However much like there are many bad apples (as we saw in the recent jet airways experience). In the same way there are some expats albeit fewer who tend to create a negative perception or simply behave like thier indian counterparts and be :{ babies by making a mountain out of a molehill.

Do remember the Indian airlines would like to keep expats, however with the government constantly re drawing boundries and with the Indian pilots constantly barraging and creating a ruckus about expats, they have succumbed to public pressure.

Overall the act needs to be pieced together by the Indian Labor ministry where once and for all they need to define the laws and then stick by it regardless of all the screaming and yelling.

As for the Indian court system, well not the best, but still better than not having one like the ME, including freedom of speech! :O

"I appreciate the expat experience and feel it is very good for Indian aviation. However much like there are many bad apples (as we saw in the recent jet airways experience). In the same way there are some expats albeit fewer who tend to create a negative perception or simply behave like thier indian counterparts and be http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/boohoo.gif babies by making a mountain out of a molehill".

Dunno what you mean herebrother but thanks for your honesty, elsewhere.
As for bad apples, some are still there !
Jet issue is not an Expat issue from what I know...........and babies making a mountain of a molehill - what are these, mate?
There are no simple molehills out there anyway:O.

Expat experience is of paramount importance to Indian aviation as very few locals have sufficient experience away from home and is something your DGCA is concerned of. One accident or a major incident would be enough to put the last nail in the coffin of VJM's stuttering 5 start airline but the locals don't look beyond their noses, do they?

"I appreciate the expat experience and feel it is very good for Indian aviation. However much like there are many bad apples (as we saw in the recent jet airways experience). In the same way there are some expats albeit fewer who tend to create a negative perception or simply behave like thier indian counterparts and be http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ies/boohoo.gif babies by making a mountain out of a molehill".

Dunno what you mean here brother but thanks for your honesty, elsewhere.
As for bad apples, some of the worse are still there and holding higher posts than what they came with !
Jet issue is not an Expat issue from what I know...........and babies making a mountain of a molehill - what are these, mate?
There are no simple molehills out there, am I right ? :O.

Expat experience is of paramount importance to Indian aviation as very few locals have sufficient experience away from home and is something your DGCA is concerned of. One accident or major incident would be enough to put the last nail in the coffin of VJM's stuttering 5 start airline but the locals don't look beyond their noses, do they?

The worst is the way your HR had handled the terminations of the expats........damn disgrace, not even a third grade brewery would do things in such a unprofessional manner..........but then, what is the experience level or caliber of those in high office?

Need i say more?

Moderate Clarification
 

Jet issue is definitely not an expat issue on the surface. It is the local pilots who are trying their level best to get the expats out and it is the local pilots who are the bad apples in this case. A few are spoiling it for the others.

I am not privy to how the HR actually handled the issue here in India, but from my understanding a pink slip is a pink slip anywhere in the world (recipient of one myself and regardless of how nicely they do it you still feel a boot up your backside as in the end you are still a foreigner and you go first).

In the bigger picture the DGCA probably in typical rushed manner did not think the entire policy out and did not lay down guidelines considering that Indian pilots would start crawling out of the wood work as soon as thier parents realized it was a high paying field. If clear and precise direction and skill and experience as well as grade levels and other such things were laid out then the airlines would have a path to tread. Black or white and not shades of grey. Unfortunately this is a the bane of the country that operates on knee jerk. :yuk:

whats the status of the trainees on hold?
 

Can anyone shed some light on the status of the Trainee pilots KFA had taken in @ a Stipend of 10k or something??

Like are they Flying or are they still on HOLD?

and have they completed their TYPE ratings?

they wear skirts and serve mallya is tea and coffee basically

:mad:
Anyone of them talking about things????Rest an open secret:=.......

at home
 

they all have type ratings on d ATR or 320 nd they r all sittin at home wid a stipend of 20K...
not sure whts happenin nd im sure even kf has no idea what to do with them..

That means they wont be hiring for a verryy long time.

Well the good part is atleast they can say theyr with KINGFISHER. :p:p :}

Things don't look right in Kingfisher.

Kingfisher terminates 58 maintenance engineers

Do not have any inside info, but over the last couple months, Kingfisher's fleet has come down by about 10 Aircrafts. And I guess the aftermath was the termination of 58 AME's.

But there are a lot more human beings associated to 10 airplane's other than AME's. (Go Air has a fleet of 9 Airplanes in total).
Is any one thinking what I am thinking ?

Sorry for the one's terminated.

Silent.

Pizza and Beer?