Beware ExPats-Korean Air 777 CASA Busts
Subject: CORRUPTION INVOLVING B-777 `TRAINING' by a CASA GOVERNMENT
OFFICIAL and/or KOREAN AIR. To: ALL PILOT APPLICANTS; KOREAN AIR MANA GEMENT; KOREAN AIR FOREIGN CAPTAINS From: Captain **named removed** This report is 8 pages long. It is submitted to inform you of the corruptio n involving B-777 `training' by Korean Air and/or a CASA government official. Please advise all B-777 pilot applicants to Korean Air that they have a very poor chance of passing a Korean Air check ride causing a blemish on their professional record. Korean Air B-777 Dec 3, 2007 training class. As of April, 2008 the final pass/fail results for our class is: There is only one pilot that passed his CASA check ride. Only one pilot remains employed out of six (6) that started in the Dec 3, 2007 B-777 class at Korean Air! Two members of our class had thousands of previous hours flying the B-777 (they were NOT newly rated) and the rest of us were highly qualified, but newly rated&n bsp;B-777 Captains. Every one of us passed ALL of our other Korean Air check rides and oral examinations and recommendation ride. We passed everything except for the final CASA check ride. Neither of the previously rated B-777 pilots passed their check ride. The only one that passed was newly rated and had been a B-737 Captain. (More background information regarding my qualifications and flying experience is outlined below.) The statistics presented in this repo rt should be very revealing, especially if you consider the fact that most of the class previous to ours didn't succeed in making it through their check rides either. I understand that the same CASA inspector conducted their check rides as well. And the class before that - most of their pilots failed. For the last three classes in a row, CASA and/or Korean Air failed all of the pilots except for one or two. Korean Air refused to give me any details on the exact failure rate and told my class that those pilots had failed because they lied on their resumes. That is not consistent with the story that I heard from a very reliable source or the way myself and others in my class have been treated. Statistically, anyone should be able to see that s omething is very wrong with this process! It is devastating to the pilots that have invested so much of their time, money and professional reputation to pursue a job at Korean Air. My intent in this report is to inform new applicants of the situation at Korean Air before you throw away your time and money. I also must set the record straight to protect my professional reputation. I am telling you this so you can hear it from me personally instead of the "spin" that will surely be put on the real truth by CASA and Korean Air management. I have no doubt that they will simply say `[we] were not qualified' and/or did not live up to Korean Air Standards or didn't follow the POM/FOM. It is not true! Do not believe it. Here is why: My credentials: I passed the Korean Air Law Test, the Korean Air Oral Exam, the Korean Air simulator check ride, the Korean Air ETOPS check ride, the recommendation ride and the CASA oral exam. I have never faile d a check ride in 34 years of flying. I starting flying Gliders in 1974 and was flying C-130's in the U.S. Air Force by 1976. I have flown for 34 years without accidents, incidents or any violations. I have received awards for flight safety including the Delta Air Lines 2005 Safety Award. I have been an instructor with thous ands of hours of instructor time and I have been a Line Check Pilot. I have more than 15,000 hours of total flying experience. I have FAA ratings on the B-777; B-767; B-757; MD88; and L-382 (C-130). I am a graduate of one of the hardest academic schools in the world, the United States Air Force Academy. I was employed at Delta Air Lines, Inc. for over 21 years and have flown as Captain for 16 years (including Air Force). New Hire Status: When Korean Air offered me a conditional job based upon obtaining the B-777 rating at my own expense, I paid for and received the B-777 rating from Boeing / Alteon in Seattle , Washington , USA . I passed all oral examinations and rating rides in the simulator at Boeing/Alteon in Seattle , Washington . Although it was a new type rating, I was highly qualified and have been a Captain on the B-767/ 757 for eight years and have over 7,000 hours of PIC time at Delta (much more if you include Air Force time). I started ground school class with Korean Air in Seoul , Korea on December 3, 2007 and started my Operational Experience (OE) training on February 11th 2008. "No Notes" and Negative Training: As of March 25, 2008 I have flown 8 trips (16 sectors/legs) with 5 instructors. I have had so many instructors because I requested an instructor change after the first four legs and apparently they could not regain continuity in scheduling with any other instructor. It was necessary for me to request a replacement of the first instructor and here is why: He spoke very poor English at best. I just couldn't understand him. It could have been his frustration in his inability to speak English that caused him to communicate with me by actually yelling at me, insulting me and belittling me. He chastised and berated me for not knowing all HIS flight techniques that are being taught as procedures. I only understood a small percentage of what he said although his favorite line was "Do you understand!!?" in a booming voice. No, I didn't understand. However, I did understand him when he said he couldn't believe that I had been a Captain for a major airline. Others in my class complained repeatedly of similar disrespectful comments and treatment. My final decision to change instructors was made when he told me I could no longer refer to any of my written notes. He threatened to have me fired if I referenced them again. He threatened me with termination for doing what I have always done for 34 years! Since I had just started my Operational Experience (OE) and since so many others had been terminated, I had to consider his comment to be a viable threat. He was a Korean A ir Line Check Pilot (LCP). His unreasonable requirement included my not being able to use the route study notes that I had written down from the required viewing of the audio visual route and airport videos (AV Packs). This was a double standard because he constantly referred to his own notes for frequencies, PA's etc., etc.. EVERYONE I have ever talked to and flown with at Korean Air Lines has told me they used their notes to learn from, fly with, and to survive the arduous memory requirements of Korean Air training. I have used personal flight notes for 34 years starting in gliders with a knee board to write notes while flying. T he absurdity of his `no notes' concept is - if they wanted us to memorize everything, then why do we even have electronic checklists, POM, FOM and PA guides or even the `Airport Analysis Charts' in the cockpit? Those first four legs (sectors) of my OE were totally wasted in negative training. At its worst, it was pure harassment. At its best, every ride was treated as a check ride. It was constant ridicule with very little instruction. It certainly was NOT western style train ing. I knew I would not survive the OE with this instructor so my only choice was to request an instructor change. It was a difficult decision to make because I had been told of the potential dire conseque nces of requesting an instructor change (due to the `losing face' issue). That difficult choice was only made after a lot of consultation. I consulted with Foreign Captain "Advisor to Line Operations", Al Makdisi. He told me not to use my notes. I also consulted with Tom Divine, "Advisor Flight Standards and Training" and many other line pilots. Each new instructor taught me his own techniques and called them Korean Air procedures. I complied and faithfully followed those procedures and documented all the changes in a script that I sent via email with multiple updates to many other pilots who were starting training class at Korean Air Lines in order to assist them in getting a head start before their OE. After studying for months, I k new the content of the FOM/POM but was not aware of its interpretation or its application until I was almost finished with my OE since each new instructor `inspired' constant changes to the techniques and "the script". Even on my check ride. The final Check ride: 03/25/08: I received my CASA Check ride by CASA Captain Hwang Sa Sik #01411234. He is a former senior Korean Air Captain. Cap tain Choi Mu Yeol #9005765 was the LCP in the right seat acting as First officer who was worried for his job. He did not support me throughout the flight or in the debriefing because he would certainly fail his next check ride if he spoke on my behalf. He therefore remained silent while CASA Captain Hwang talked. He apologized to me for not supporting me after CASA Hwang departed. I contend that my check ride result was predetermined long before I left the ground. It was a hoax and a farce. The results had nothing to do with my perfor mance. CASA Captain Hwang lied about the events. He fabricated the reasons for failing me on my c heck ride which I will discuss later in this report. As far as I am concerned I passed in every department. I have never failed a check ride in my life and this was no exception. I admit there were a few debriefing items (because it is impossible to do all Korean techniques), but absolutely nothing was unsafe and my landings we picture perfect smooth landings with cross winds. It is obvious that Captain Hwang, SA-SIK a CASA government official, is intentionally failing foreign B-777 pilots on their check rides. He either has a personal agenda or is being instructed to fail us by someone at K orean Air. I think he is failing foreign pilots because he was a former Korean Air Captain himself. He either has a `bone to pick' with Korean Air due to possible forced early retirement or is helping his union pilot friends at Korean Air by keeping the B-7 77's grounded without foreign captains to fly them. Maybe he is just trying to ensure Korean Captains upgrade faster than Foreign Captains. I don't know which answer is correct, but I would bet my career on the fact that the failure rate of domestic Korean Captains is nowhere close to the dismal failure rate of foreign Captains. I think Cap tain Hwang is intentionally countering the Korean Air's President Jong-Hee Lee's push to hire more foreign Captains. His dishonorable actions are both personal and political and foreign Captains are being caught in the middle as victims who spent precious time and money pursuing an unachievable dream with potentially dire consequences to their professional reputation. The check ride was a hoax and a farce. Korean Air is lending credibility to this farce by terminating the employment of the foreign Captains after not passing the CASA check ride. This treatment of Foreign Captains does not appear to be happ ening as often on any other fleet. Everyone else (in my class) on all EXC EPT the B-777 has passed their check ride (They probably had other CASA officials as the check pilot). Don't let Korean Air tell you it was the qualifications of our B-777 class. All except one in our class were OVER QUALIFIED and at least as qualified as other foreign Captains on the other fleets who passed their check rides. Additional details of the check ride: Prior to the check ride I had not been given any time for route study since my or al was less than 24 hours prior to flight. After passing my oral with a high score, CASA Capt Hwang requested my log book. He expressed that he wanted to confirm my hours. I told him I did not have my pilot log book in Korea (except for the Korean Air log book I had started) and offered to give him a letter the following day from Delta A ir Lines, my former employer, which gave a break down of my flight time. On the morning of my check ride I showed up 3 hours prior to push back time for route study. Captain Choi, the LCP, showed up VERY late and did not even know a check ride had been scheduled. I was frantic and only had 15 minutes to brief him before going to the aircraft for the `Joint Briefing'. CASA Capt Hwang met us at the aircraft and requested my OE training record upon arrival. I also presented him with the copy of the letter from Delta Air Lines. (Early into the flight to Hong Kong , he actually took my OE training record from me and then proceeded to reference the FOM as he started writing. Apparently he needed help from the FOM and my OE training record in developing his reasons for failing me. It was too early in the check ride to start writing because at that point, nothing had happened.) It would be impossible for anyone to maintain an objective and neutral opinion after reading anyone's OE training record. He is human and would become biased to look for past weaknesses - even if he saw you do everything right on your check ride. This biased process would never be allowed in most ICAO nations. At the end of a very long day, according to CASA Captain HWANG SA SIK, a previous 30 year Korean Air Captain, I failed my check ride. I do not accept his appraisal and am insulted by his masquerade of fairness. His business card has the audacity to display "Trust Builder" in its title. This CASA official lied and exaggerated events regarding many of the events of my flight. Because of this action he is corrupt and is involved in an unknown personal agen da. Why did he do this? Maybe he was forced to retire from Korean Air at an early age and this is a grudge. Maybe he is still sympathetic to the union activities at Korean Air. Since everyone else on all the other fleets passed their check ride, the results of the B-777 are too unusual and suspicious to ignore. Statistically, if the check ride was a fair and unbiased evaluation, it would be impossible that most Foreign Captains fail the check ride from the same CASA Hwang. Grounding the B-777's because there are not enough pilots to fly them is a more likely scenario and certain to make a statement. CASA Hwang graded me on techniques that he insisted were procedures. I will go into the details later in this report. As you know, there are no more second chances after your Operational Experience (OE) 12 + 4 sectors. There are no more training rides given and since there is only one CASA pilot giving the check rides on this aircraft, chances of a successful recheck would be infinitesimally small. Based on Korean Air past practice, most pilots have been fired after failing the check ride and attending the obligatory/compulsory meeting. Excell ent pilots have been cheated by CASA and KOREAN Air and sent home after 4 months of extremely hard work. Needless to say, I was angry at the result but not shocked! I knew the chances of success were slim based on the statistical results of the previous two B-777 classes. You shouldn't expect to pass if statistically only one in your class will make the grade. However, I have never failed a check ride in my 30 years of flying and in my opinion; this should have been no exception. I will admit it wasn't perfect by Korea Air Standards, but, as all of you know from your own experience, how could it be? Many standards are an unknown moving target. For instance, have you seen check ride criteria from CASA? Does it exist? If it does exist, does it live up to the farcical written English standard of the CASA Korean Air Law test? Could it be read and understood by the person taking the check ride? No standards were briefed to me by CASA and he cert ainly did not live up to mine. The pilot world should know of this corruption before wasting their time and effort in Korea . In the spirit of trying to do my best, I tried to brief endlessly and never stopped saying "check" in meaningless fashion. In the end it didn't count because CASA says I failed and that is all that matters in Korea . There were no safety issues on my check ride, although according to CASA h e tried very hard to create some by making up a story about me turning on the wrong taxi way in Hong Kong (although I wrote the instructions down and it was verbally verified correct by the LCP in the right seat). I've been taxing for 34 years and even if it did happen, (which it did not), it would have been a NON-EVENT. There were no other airplanes on the taxiway and we were not involved with crossing any runways or creating a traffic conflict. He CREATED the story to fail me. He created even more stories that n ight AFTER my debriefing was finished in order to solidify his position in his report - which was written in Korean. I have no doubt he would have created more if needed. He harassed me from the minute I got into the cockpit in Incheon airport with questions (I had taken the oral less than 24 hours earlier - the calendar day prior) and even on several occasions commanded that I take certain action during the flight which I can't find in any book anywhere. I have been surprised on every KAL flight with something new and different so I took it all in stride hoping that at the end of the day he would still be reasonable and I would become a Korean Air pilot. I maintained my compos ure and temperament until the end of the check ride debriefing following the two fligh ts. At the end of the day I was mistaken. Reason and sanity did not prevail. CASA Hwang intentionally and selectively neglected standard procedures. He had total disregard for cockpit security by freely opening and closing the cockpit door in flight without following the established procedures in the FOM. He did not follow the security procedures briefed by me during the Joint Briefing. He also said we didn't have to put on our oxygen masks when going to the bathroom even though we were at FL 360. He said we could eat at the same time (which I didn't), anyway, you get the picture. He followed the rules HE wanted to follow and disregarded those that didn't suit him. He violated MANY Korean Air procedures .. and then he had the nerve to grade ME poorly. He fabricated the facts - blatantly lied, and even added things to my check ride form after he left the room. OE Chief Pilot Captain Kang met with me two days later and read to me t he new items. For instance, I couldn't believe that CASA Hwang had added that I didn't do one of the checklists. Absolutely incredible! He had not mentioned tha t to me on the day of the check ride. I know for a fact that I called for every checklist. (I did call for the climb checklist 1000' too early passing transition altitude (9000' and climbing at 2500'/min out of Hong Kong ), but it was NOT forgotten. I guess he must have realized that there wasn't enough bad stuff on the original evaluation to justify failing me so he just added some more lies. I couldn't read the form since it was in Korean. It wouldn't matter anyway. I asked both CASA Captain Hwang and OE Chief Pilot Captain Kan g for the voice tapes from the aircraft (if available), and Hong Kong ground control. They refused. CASA Hwang summed it up best in the debriefing following my check ride. After I had objec ted to his statements that had no basis of truth he said: "They are true! I am CASA". Spoken loudly as if he were GOD. I am sending this report to you so you can hear it from me personally instead of the "spin" that will surely be put on their version of the truth by CASA and Kor ean Air. I doubt that Korean Air Management will ever hear my version. I have no doubt that they will simply repeat their standard answer to those that ask. Their standard answer is what Korean Air said about the previous classes poor success rate when we said we were concerned they said "they were not qualified" and "did not live up to Korean Air Standards". I don't understand why they behave in this manner! Why would they fail almost everyone going through a program? I won't go into politics and the potential labor issues that surround the parking of the new B-777 aircraft while foreign pilo ts are being trained - instead of Korean pilots. Parking airplanes carries a lot of leverage and sends a strong message for those that are listening. (continued) |
Regarding techniques taught as "procedures": On my check ride I
learned of even more techniques that were taught as "procedures". These were procedures that I had never heard of from my FIVE previous Korean Air instructors. For instance: 1. FLAPS: On initial approach to Incheon Rwy 33R, in a critical phase of flight, I learned you can't go from flaps UP directly to 5 degrees (skipping flaps 1), even if your airspeed allows it. According to CASA you CAN'T select flaps 1 until you have SLOWED to clean speed - in spite of the fact that Boeing allows it, and in spite of the fact that I was approximately 6 miles from the FAF and ATC had required me to maintain 230 kts to close a space in front of me. I was already trying to slow down, I was descending ON GLIDE PATH WITH FULL SPEED BRAKES and ATC had given me an overshooting turn across fin al. I was trying to correct back to Localizer. During this same time the CASA checker was verbally chastising me (below 10,000 sterile cockpit) for calling flaps 5; I was thinking about "stabilized approach criteria", FOQA, and CHECK RIDE all at the same time. I got the aircraft stabilized by lowering the gear and going to flaps 20 after having to demand it, and trying to get the checklist completed while they both were commenting in Korean (probably about my non standard command for flaps) (no sterile cockpit below 10,000). I should have just gone around for needless breach of sterile cockpit rules below 10,000 and the unsafe distraction from the more important task at hand. However, I also realized that if I had done a go around, it would have been another reason for failing me on my check ride. I know flying is dynamic. You MUST be able to adjust to the situation you find yourself in and not be confined by some artificial classroom fligh t technique being taught as procedure that have absolutely no basis of reason from Boeing, (the manufacturer), nor are those techniques based on logical or sound aerodynamic principals in general, given the circumstances and phase of fli ght I was in. Sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. We only had 15 minutes of holding fuel. The next approach would have been minimum fuel. 2. TURBULENCE: I also found out that it is a procedure for LIGHT turbulence that you must speed intervene and go to Mach .82. I just thought that was for something more serious such as moderate turbulence when your airspeed might actually be affected; I have done plenty of speed interventions in my time, but never for light turbulence. I had already placed the seat belt light on before they said anything. CASA i ntervened and insisted I use `speed intervention'. Five to Ten minutes after CASA intervened to tell me to select Speed Intervention th e turbulence did eventually increase to moderate. It could have just as easily disappeared. I would have selected Speed Intervention at heavy light chop but was not afforded the opportunity. Pilot discretion with CASA Hwang was non existent. 3. BRIEFINGs: As though Korean Air needs more briefings and cockpit chatter . According to CASA Hwang I also didn't know that I was supposed to brief the SMGS part of the 10-1P in Hong Kong . The weather was CAVOK. CASA said I was supposed to brief the part about the voluntary test program regarding the transponder being turned on. He had a lengthy conversation about how it was negligent to omit this fact. The fact is, the transponder was `on' the whole time we were on the ground. As far as I know it is a test program and is not mandatory. I may have missed briefing this on the departure although I thought I had briefed leaving the transponder on during the arrival br iefing only an hour prior. It was in my notes. 4. TAXI at HONG KONG : My English is good. I am a native English speaker. The taxi instructions were verified by LCP Captain Choi. No other aircraft were on the taxiway going to 07R. Many hold short instructions were given, then canceled and verified by us. CASA Hwang said we went down the wrong taxi way because he thought he heard ground control say we needed to change to another taxi way. I asked them to get the voice tapes from Hong Kong if they thought this `non critical event' was the reason for failing me on my check ride. 5. FATIGUE: CASA required me to do the walk around and the cockpit FMC preparation with no time for rest. It was a 12 hour day with me doing everything. EVERYTHING. Every minute was consumed with updating the heading bug or some other `make work' event. It was not a test of knowledge or your abili ty to fly an aircraft safely. It was an ENDURANCE test. I am 56 years old. It would have been nice to have be en able to relax for a few minutes and collect my thoughts as they were doing. Both CASA and the LCP had a break. No one works as hard as I worked - even on an ocean crossing your maximum on duty time is much less than 12 straight hours. The LCP did nothing too help. He didn't even start the APU at the gate as though they were trying to catch me unprepared for push back. (I caught the omission). I had to command everything. I thought Boeing had designed this aircraft as a two pilot aircraft. I t was designed and built to require two qualified pilots with the same objective to fly it. Not just a captain trying to do everything by himself while the other one was trying to resist and create an environment for mistakes. That would be mutiny. Was he briefed to do this by CASA or does he do this on every check ride? The conditions being cr eated were unrealistic, unsafe and unfair. I have never had a check ride like this in my life anywhere. The goal of a check ride should be to fly safely to your destination and assess the pilot's ability while doing it. I have been an instructor and check airman for more than 3000 hours. I learned very early in my career that as an instr uctor you can easily create a situation which could cause a pilot to fail his check just by distracting him from the task at hand. This is exactly what CASA Hwang was doing. This check ride was the most bizarre sham I have ever been through. It was not a legitimate evaluation. Back Dating my TERMINATION: I attended a scheduled meeting on March 27, 2008 at 9:30 a.m. with OE Korean Air Chief Pilot Capt Kang. Following the meeting he said they would have another meeting to decide my fate. As soon as I walked out of the room with Capt Kang, the man from administrat ion, Mr. Shin met me and said he needed to< BR>"out process" me. That was a quick meeting! Captain Kang already knew I was terminated and still he told me that the decision had not been made yet. It was a lie. "Saving face" must be a euphemism for liars. Shin told me that they had terminated my contract effective March 25th. How could that be? I was flying to Hong Kong on March 25th. After my CASA debriefing I was told by LCP Choi to go to the meeting with Capt Kang on March 27. I even checked my schedule for changes. There is a record of that. When Mr. Shin told me my contract was canceled as of March 25, I told them that my contract was still in force until I left Korea and that they would need to pay me until March 28th, 2008 when I was scheduled to leave because I was directed to turn in my uniforms and do other company business up until the time I left Korea. I also told them they owed me per diem for those days. When I said I was still an employee on those dates, he corrected me and said I had never been an employee. He told me on two separate occasions that I was a CONTRACT WORKER, NOT a Korean Air employee. I also found out that they had refused to process my free positive space business class passes from Korean Air that I am rightfully entitled to since I was still employed at the time of the request and those tickets are part of the agreement. They also refused to process other ZED pass requests that I had put in on the day of my check ride while I was still employed. I earned them the hard way. I asked for 4 round trip tickets to Bangkok for my family Eileen, Amelia and myself from Atlanta , Georgia and Mitchell (my son) from San Francisco , CA . I expect to g et them as well as the ZED tickets that were requested - or be paid for their value. They shouldn't be able to get out of this by "back dating" my employment. I went to the Executive Offices: When Mr. Shin told me I had to `out process' (after Captain Kong had said a decision had NOT been made and that there would be a meeting) I felt so betrayed by their lies and was so convinced the whole process was a sham that I immediately left the room, walked down the hall and went straight up to the Executive offices of Korean Air on the 7th Floor (above the medical clinic). Someone at the top of this organization needs to know what is going on in the Operations department. I went into the first executive office on the right and told the gentle man in the office that I had an emergency and I needed to speak with him. (I think he was the V.P. of Human Resources although I did not get his name). I told him about the corruption at CASA and the lies that CASA was telling in order to fail pilots on their check rides. I used the failure rate on the B-777 as proof that there was a clandestine plan to keep the B-777's `parked'. After I delivered my m essage I was personally escorted from his office back to operations to see Captain Lee. I intentionally did not start with Captain Lee because the problem is under his control. I went into his office and Captain Lee and his managers gathered around me. As I told them the same details I had discussed in the Executive Offices, some of his managers were laughing at me as though my details were some kind of joke. I objected, which made them laugh more. It seemed as though they took personal pleasure at my irritation. Maybe they were just nervous about the facts. SUMMARY: I have never studied so hard in all my life and come up so short on anyone's performance expectations. I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEMS FLYING THE AIRCRAFT. My problems stem from having to learn new techniques that are being taught as procedures just to satisfy every new instructor. They are techniques that have nothing to do with operating an aircraft safely. I tried very hard. I stayed in my room studying for 4 months straight trying to learn method # 149 wrong ways. I didn't watch TV, or party. All I did was study and chair fly. After the unfairness of my check ride I can only arrive at one conclusion. CASA and the operations department is part of the problem. I am not. Mys elf and the rest of my class that are no longer at Korean Air tried our best to be part of the solution. From my perspective, and the perspective of many others, you are risking your professional reputation by accepting a position at Korean Air. Misc Notes: * As a Delta pilot for 22 years, Korean Air procedures bear very little resemblance to Delta Procedures. They are completely different. Even their FOM and POM bears little resemblance. For instance, Delta Pilots only repeat critical changes to FMA status such as "LOC capture", "Land 3" etc. and otherwise maintain a quiet sterile cockpit concept below 10,000'. The constant Korean Air callouts of FMA changes and constant cockpit response chatter such as "check" are a distraction from flying. This breaches the quiet cockpit concept and causes missed radio calls and jeopardize safety. There is entirely too much cockpit chatter below 10,000. This is a very big problem at Korean Air and a safety issue. I can hardly hear ATC instructions over the F/O's chant of FMA changes and my required responses of saying "check". It is very distracting. * Fatigue. I worked too hard being required to do everything (alone) for a 12 ho ur day. * Techniques taught a s procedure: (Example: constant update of the heading bug even to one degree.) You can't be expected to know techniques without training. * There is severely inadequate training at Korean Air. English instructors are needed. * Needless callouts for everything imaginable. "Check" is overused and meaningless. * Endless briefings of questionable value. * Constant, needless ATIS updates. * Required to MEMORIZE the POM, FOM, when it says in those books that the only memory items should be Recall items and limitations. * Requiring the Captain to do the F/O job of loading the FMC and loading it with much more than required by Boeing - and then do the walk around as well. Doing the Captains job as well as the first officer's job what is the point of this? * Not abiding by FOM cockpit security rules and regulations. * Not abiding by FOM oxygen requirements when one pilot leaves the cockpit. * Not abi ding by FOM avoiding eating at the same time requirements. * Treating every waypoint as compulsory. * Korean Air spent time trying to build loyalty to their company with the initial indoctrination program and then caused distrust and eve n anger with the way we were treated in OE. All foreign Captains can see what is happening to these pilots. Poor treatment by Korean Air treatment instills mistrust and disdain in their workforce. Blue Skies and good luck **name removed** |
Welcome to Asia
Some comments with all due respect, sounded like you were a bit behind the aircraft, for check rides I am ultra conservative when it comes to turbulence, not knowing the difference between technique and SOP? Anyway, you weren't at Delta and in the contract world they don't treat you like a valued employee, in hindsight, changing your instructor was a BIG mistake, it probably brought shame to this instructor and may even be part of the reason they didn't pass you, but not following taxi instructions at HKG is a deal ender on any check ride, what were you thinking? I wish you luck, not like you'll have any trouble finding work with your background.
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Korean
Well I had a friend who joined Korean few years ago. He said things very similar to yours. He too was failed for an absord reason.(Too petty even to mention). Like Dream Land said changing the instructor was a very very bad idea. But then again you did not know that. With almost all Koreans respect and the SIR business is required. High Raki is at its max. This is by nature. Another pal of mine who used to work over there gave it up after 2 years. He said no local talks to you in the flight deck. The locals will speak out the standard calls no nothing else. Infact I know an ex Captain from Korean who is a Korean himself gave me the inside picture. He is presently employed in the same company as I am.
So after all this has occured to many at Korean. Just put it a side and look else where. There are many oppertunities. Take it as an experience. Dont let this harm your flying career. Look at the incidences that have occured over there in the past. So what I would say is that this happend for your own good. |
Sorry Gents....I posted this email/letter as a forward....for anyone that might be interested in this. FWIW only.
I'm currently an active pilot @ AA. It was posted on our website today, and I thought this would be a good place for it. Any counter- thoughts on the subject might balance the info too. Thanks. KC135777 |
KC135777,
if you post something as a forward please take the name off.... ( guess you just forgot, just wanted to remind you) |
Not for one minute downplaying the above gentlemans experiences as fact , however be open minded gentleman and ladies , there are many carriers ( particularly in the Middle East) that had heard of 100 + of their pilots considering the KAL contract , PPRUNE has always been a wonderfull propaganda tool , in this case using the above articles to try dissuade potential wannabee,s . Do YOUR own homework properly. I am meeting with some friends in KAL next week who ARE 777 Captains who slipped through the training system ( and passed)and will be getting the other side of the story.
As I say its entirely fesasible that these gents had these terrible experiences , but be wise and understand the workings of propaganda. This forum is an incredibly powerfull tool for both sides of the fence. |
fourgolds,
I have asked the poster of this story, on our AA pilot's website, his personal knowledge/relationship of the author. I will respond w/ any info that I receive. KC135777 |
Basically, it's a friend of a friend of the posters. The author who had this experience (the retired DAL CA) sent it to his NWA CA friend (and many others, I suppose), who's a friend of the AA CA (that posted it on our website).
caveat emptor your mileage may vary KC135777 |
Korean Air and their disfunctional practise's
It is one thing to assume that one guy has a problem, then he may be at fault. But when you begin to see several guy's from different fleets having the same or similar issues at the end of training and are being failed and sent home. Then you must begin to look at other issues within the Airline.
And not just the training. ALL of the Korean LCPs' have little or no formal training experience. And what little training experience they have they brought it from the Military. Now at first glance, you may say that the military is a good source of instructors. However in Korea when you become a LIP/LCP you are litterally GOD!. The same guys with whome you are used to hanging out and chiping in at the restaurant or the Bars' now must be subserviant to you, and if not then they suffer they result of failure at the next checkride, failture and demotion or termination. And NO One can cross them!!!!! These Koreans' know that whatever they do they can get away with it because no one dear's to challenge their corrupt practises and if it is done then the consequences are severe. Presently at Korean there is a new agenda by some individuals within the korean pilot union again to challenge the company and now they are begining to influence some of the younger guys' to follow suit with the promise of upgrade to the 777, and they are begining to take the bate. All of these actions are surreptitiously hidden form the Vp Flt. Ops Mr Lee Yun Duck and the Chairman, Mr. Cho. By certain Individuals within the flight standards dept. who seem to clairely abuse their powers with impunity. Most of the younger korean pilots want to go to the wide body quickly, but because of their ability their training takes twice as long as hiring an expat, So the expat comes in and with in three months are ready to occupy their seat. That is in theory. The reality is that as of now the expats are being shot down in increasing numbers, by these korean LCP's. The company refuses to make these LCP's Accountable because of the whole saving face think in Korea, and cancels the pilot's contract with the following email. "contract terminated. Bad Pilot" And sends the pilot back home humiliated and disgusted after puting in 110% for the past three months. The company has to park these airplane's al be it temperarily, because of the lack of crews. Untill they can complete the training for the local crews. And even after this the Incidents of FOQA incidents increase because of the experience ( LACK thereof) of these Korean crews. So again the the disfunctional korean way continues. The general advice on this board should taken seriously. And untill Korean Air puts a perminant stop to this Shameful Old style currupt practise. Dont come here unless you have no other option or you really like to gamble with your life. Good Luck George |
marvelman,
I hope you don't mind me bringing your message here. I figure that your intent was definitely to warn as many pilots as possible, so this would logically be a good place for it. KC135777 |
Parking aircrafts?
KAL created it's own problems because of it's irrational competition with Asiana. They rush to open up new routes, tickets procured from outside Korea are dirt cheap leaving very little net yields despite full loads. Transit passengers are aplenty at Incheon, travel cheaply transiting ICN benefitting Hyatt Regency which of course has Hyatt management tied to the Chairman. Go figure. The parent company holds a small, albeit controlling share in KAL but reaps big rewards from supplies, peripherals, hotac etc. KAL has just announced big losses due to fuel costs and Won depreciation.......the employees can no longer enjoy big windfalls but those companies supplying products and services to it make it big. Surprise? Modus operandi cum laude!
Now to those recent failures, there are many reasons. The LCPs/LIPs are now really much better than the ones I had almost a decade ago. However as someone mentioned the expat candidates nowadays are also suspect. Most are influenced by easy talk in Hyatt crew lounge and lulled by well meaning and not so well meaning KAL expats into thinking that the Korean trainers/checkers are bozos who they can run rings around! The truth is they ARE NOT, a few odd ones maybe but most of them know their stuff but are quite inscrutable. They may have problems articulating their command of things but they are certainly not outright stupid as people make them out to be. So they may look like hilly billies, but they can see through the faking riff raffs. |
From what i have personally experianced is that there seems to be a nexus between long time expat standards guys and the locals. You know a sort of old boys club, wink wink. Keep it to ourselves and brethren. The
expat-HOODlums are running the show. The locals have a bullying culture, but are themselves terrified of an audit of their own capabilities. Not a good place to work, unless you get a godfather quickly. |
Marvelman and others
My posts still stand. If you take time to read them and digest them from a rational view point....you'll get the true inference... KAL has a well deserved reputation and history and any "career" professional contract pilot would know. Their modus operandi, both in training and on the line is well known. "If the money is too good to be true - something is wrong" |
I have been out of KAL for a couple of years now. But in 25 years of airline flying......Looking back, my four years at KAL was probably the best job I've had.....This includes being a skipper for a well known UK B744 operator...It's just I didn't realise it at the time.
Don't knock KAL, I did and I was wrong to do it. Go to KAL understand their idiosynchrasies (can't spell, sorry), and culture and enjoy yourself. Always willing to answer questions. |
Tflier
Good for you!
You were one of the winners on that lottery. Are you really aware of what's going on that circus? Lying, humiliating, employing Neanderthal era "training tools" hardly can be classified as "idiosynchrasies"... |
Welcome to the world
Dream LandWelcome to Asia
Mr Dream Land, First off , iīm a bit surprised with your comment title (Welcome to Asia) Because you know, as far as iīm concern flying an aircraft is the same regardless of your geographic position on the globe. If you move the control column to the right, surprise, surprise the aircraft will turn to the right, and itīs not different in Asia. You know there are different kind of persons who fly airplanes. There are PILOTS and the so called airplane drivers. See ,PILOTS they belong to the environment, they think, they addapt themselves to whatever happens in order to bring that piece of metal with hundreds of lives in it, safely on the ground. Do you really fully understand the concept of a SOP? You know, we can teach this beautifull thing(SOP) to a monkey and iīm pretty sure he will learn it. Will probably perform it better than you and me. But when it comes to something that itīs not written on the book, will he perform outstandingly? Some comments with all due respect, sounded like you were a bit behind the aircraft And like him a lot of other captains, and YES, I DO KNOW WHAT IīM TALKING ABOUT. Do you understand the difference bettwen beeing behind the aicraft, and aircraft adaptation? I donīt know if a KAL aircraft requires a different adaptation to those who have ben flying the same airplane for ages in other airlines. You have to adapt your self to the new team. I completely agree with you. But i understand that a team is made of individuals rather than robots.Different individual , different approach, same procedure. Isnīt that the base of a good instructor? but not following taxi instructions at HKG is a deal ender on any check ride, ATC itīs not GOD. They exist because, we PILOTS (not airplane drivers) fly those machines. And they are there to help us, to serve us, not the other way around.Unfortunately in Asia region people have a misconception about this. And once again , YES ,I KNOW WHAT IīM TALKING ABOUT. I fly a BIG aircraft, for a major asian company. Itīs really sad that people that donīt have any contact with the planet earth and still share a very narrow vision about it place comment on this page with tittle like (WELCOME TO ASIA) . Thatīs why when you guys fly abroad and get completely disrespected by ATCīs like JFK-as thousands of other examples- they tell you: WELCOME TO THE WORLD. |
L1011
Congratulations on a perfect post!
This DreamLand, like his own nick sugests, is not to be taken serious. Maybe is an young korean boy wannabe or just a joker...:ugh: |
Corruption? Maybe but it looks like the Koreans are getting conned by dodgy wannabes.
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