YES only ID90 & ID75 for your family members on VAC network
no agreement with other companies (sorry no AA)
the rumor is U.S.A. flights by end of year.........just rumor
plus every time you fly on your scheduled time OFF
its a free ticket for you, and 99.9% you'll go on Business Class
the nearest will be CDG o FRA to U.S.A......or Japan if you live in the other coast

If anyone is able to email the PARC and RAL contracts that would be much appreciated?
I am interested in the ATR 72 CPT position with the opportunity to upgrade to A320.
Thanks in advance

Hi guys,

I'm based in SGN with Jetstar 737 and I can tell you that VN needs huge amount of pilots. First because some are leaving and second because you can see several aircraft grounded because they don't have crews to operate them.

I recommend coming to SGN, things are really cheap... specially if you know where to search and you don't need to live in your 300 m2 house with swimingpool and tennis court.

Here in Jetstar they are also looking for pilots and with the introduction of the first A320 in one month it seems that they will have to pay the same as VN Airlines pays to CPT and FOs. I believe they're still looking for DEC for the 737, don't know about the req.

what no smimming pool and no tennis courts !!!! :=

Hi guys. What is the pay like for a B777 FO? Do they pay per diem and/or outstation allowance? So how much will I have in my hand at the end of the month? Thanks.

777 Fo
 

Think it's between 9 and 10, that includes everything, no allowance on the road, rent is between 500 and 1000 for a decent place, hotel contracts down route are five star with free breakfast.

Can't help you with the current contract, the upgrade opportunity isn't something that will be included in a contract but after a year or two on the line it may be available.

The contract states $8000 for A320 FO for the 6/2 option. Is that what you get into the pocket or are there any additional deductions, say for the contract agency folks.

You get it all. $8000 is after the contractor takes their cut.

I have heard that some contracts are now being paid in Euros. Can anyone confirm that?

To be more exact it's 9,464 USD for the 6/2 option B777 F/O.

really. thats almost the same as a 320 skipper who works considerably harder.

The 6 and 2 is not as utopian as it sounds. for a start you cannot get days off either side of your rotation so the first and last days are spent travelling. Not so bad for the aussies but not good for the europeans/americans (north and south). They also include rotation days as your days off allocation. you get 7 days off a month here, but if you spread your rotation over 2 months ie the last week of one month and the first of the next, you don't get any more days off for those 2 months. Worse case scenario you get a total, thats, TOTAL number of days off a year of 114, of which 84 are rotation of which 12 of those are spent travelling. That leaves 72 days free at home. Even an office worker gets more than that. Couple that with 1 week rosters, massive roster disruption call in sick and they change it to a day off, you can't get 2 days off together unless you beg so you can't get out of the city, no staff travel benefits, and the worst 4 sector day flying, Vietnam Airlines is not Utopia. i think most of the guys on this thread are in a bit of a honeymoon period.

ia1166

I am confused by your last post so would you or anyone with Vietnam clear up a few things concerning the work schedule for a 320 F/O.

From what was posted earlier, I thought that you work for 6 weeks and during those 6 weeks you would get about 2 free days per week off. At the end of the last day of the 6 weeks, you would then get 14 straight days off prior to being scheduled for a flight. Do I understand this correctly here or are there some other catches?

What do you mean by rotation days? Are these part of your 14 days off or are these part of the weekly 2 days off you get while working? Do you normally get 2 days off per week during your 6 weeks?

Are there any limits to flight hours per week or month and if so then what are they? Thanks for the info.

That seems to be the case for most airlines. Widebody flying seems to give you a little better quality of life.

ia1166 I'm 100% with you. You always have to thinks trough before accepting a contract. A 6 weeks on /3 off or 11 to 15 per month like korean IS a true commuting contract. And for those at VN who does'nt live within there network well its a no brainer....

In a normal contract you have min 8 days off per month while the office boys and girls have 10 per month = 8x12=96
annual leave 43 days anything less is rubish since you are expat and need to go home total 139.

VN you say 72days and you get to buy a full fair ticket at the other end....

2 days a week off? Sorry mate but no chuffing chance here buddy. The fom states 7 days off minimum a month. And 24 in 3 months. Well your 2 weeks off is called rotation here. But they also count as days off so you get just 7 days a month when you are here. And thats only if you are here for a full month. If you take your 2 weeks rotation across 2 months, then it all counts as days off so you are effectively entitled to no more days off that month. You do get a 36 hour break every 7 days, but as this can be from say 0900 on monday to 2100 on tuesday it doesn't mean its a day off. So during your 6 weeks you're only going to get a 36 hour break every 7 days, or 1 day a week. or in other terms during a 6 week work rotation you may only get 5 days off, ie 1 every 7 days.

The worst thing is going on rotation on say the 8th to the 22nd. They can make you work the full 8 days until you leave, the 36 hours off they owe you would then be part of your rotation, then when you come back they can make you work 6 days straight and then give you 1 day off (36 hour rule). and thats it for that month.

oh and if you think of going sick after 20 sectors in 5 days all at different times of the day because you've collapsed in fatigue, then they call it a day off and you're straight back into 6 days working when you report back for duty. As i say, utopia it ain't.

In answer to the 14 days off, yes you do get 14 days straight. But the Paris flight leaves at 0100 and rocks up in paris around 8 am. add on the tavelling home and thats your first day gone. the return flight leaves paris at 1400 and arrives 0700, you can't work the day of arrival so its your day number 14, so you need to leave paris on day 13, so if you're travelling from england you have to leave around 8am on day 13, which gives you only 11 days clear at home. Clear as mud? You have to look at it all carefully.

On the subject of flight hours, well the expats here do all the 4 short sector days. This means you will normally do 8 to 12 hour days but only pick up 4 or 5 hours. So we rarely reach 90 hours a month. You will however do 55 hours a week duty, week in week out. Once you start nudging your duty hours they will get you in to do a very short flight. The game of rostering is to make you work every day as its good for the party, and you never ever get more than the minimum 7 days a month.

All i can say is if it was that good, they wouldn't be short of people. guys are always leaving, most without giving full notice, some guys lasted 3 weeks last year.

If it's real commuting you want, join Korean.

If the B777 FO pay is $9,464 USD for the 6/2 roster, how much is it pro-rated for 5/3 or 4/4 roster?

is this training bond for initial training... or for upgrade training?

i have had some correspondance with no mention of a bond yet, just curious how that works

The training bond is only for upgrade training.

I am considering an FO position, and if so I would set up over there, returning to the US only as needed to make family visits.

Are there many expats there who make a new home there? I currently fly from the US to Central and South America, as well as the Caribbean, and spend my days off exploring these countries. My idea would be to use my rotations to travel Asia and the South Pacific in the same manner.

I can understand how the 6 and 2 would pose headaches for those who want to spend time at home, however with the need to commute not so much an issue, would the extra money be worth less time off?

Also for a small, but reasonably nice apartment, what are typical living expenses? In other words, how much can I expect to pocket after paying bills

ia1166

In the above situation, since you are working on both Monday and Tuesday and do not get a full day off, will you then get a full day off (0001-2400)somewhere in the week?

In other words, does the 36 hour break in the above specific scenario count towards your minimum 7 days off per month as 1 day off?

If you're entitled to a day off then it will be 36 hour so it covers both requirements.

The 2 FOM rules are as i said.7 days a month minimum, 36 hours in a 7 day period, or if not then a 60 hour break in 10 days.

so if you come back from leave on the 3rd say, then you only get 4 more days off that month. Each of them will involve more than 36 hours but will include a day, which is midnight to midnight..

The worst things are taking all your leave in the middle of the month, which results in no more days off that month, or splitting your leave 1 week in one month and 1 week in the next.

It wasn't always like this. Most of us were here when the 7 days off was given pro rata. but it ain't like that now.

And why do you guys accept this? 7 days off, unbeleivable!

Erm, why? Almost everyone i know is looking at somewhere else to go. there is a high turnover here. The only way around it is to take the salary cut and go 5/3 or 4/4. To pre answer the next question, it's 17% for 5/3 and 33%for 4/4.
I think life is better in pacific though.

As i said, it wasn't always like this. there are guys who have been here 4years or more and are hoping it may go back to how it was, but begining to realise it won't, and the FNGs who think it's great for the first 6 months then bail out after a year.
The new carrot is to offer upgrades to anyone who will pay and sign a bond for 3 years to make them stay, instead of asking why quality guys are leaving.

It's the 20th and i've only had 3 days off this month so far. And i've been here all month. Go figure.

And the facts of staff travel. You get a free ecomomy upgradable ticket home 6 times a year, and a total of 6 id90s for immeadiate family. That's it. The guys get business maybe 70% of the time to Paris. not 99.99% as someone mentioned earlier. Sometimes you get bumped off completely. Then the fun really starts because they try to blame you for this and take more leave off you because you were late back.

Look it's not a bad place, but not that great either. What i've said is the truth.

In answer to the cost of living, where are you from? A small quality western style apartment will cost 1500+. A semblence of a western lifestyle 1000 a month on top. If you have kids, then don't expect to save much at all.

ia1166,

Thanks for the details about the schedule. I will have to seriously rethink whether I want to do this. I am not working nowhere near as hard right now as what I would be with Vietnam. Two benefits I do see are the take home pay and sleeping in your own bed pretty much every night.

How do most guys hold up with this workload? Are they pretty tired all the time or is the time off adequate? I am not planning on commuting, thankfully.

Also, is it possible to get a 3 on 1 off rotation?

ok. your situation is exactly why i'm telling you how it is. you don't want to leave a good company to find yourself a lot worse off. For those with no job then it's no risk at all.

On the line expect to spend 3 days a week in hanoi. It's ok but its 1 hour from the airport. not a problem unless you are on minimum rest (11 hours) which will equate to 9 hours in the hotel. And no free breakfast. So you won't be home in bed every night. put this with being away on leave then your expensive apartment will be empty 50% of the time.

If you don't want to commute and just spend your time seeing asia on your time off then it is a great deal for you. life in HCMC can be fun. it is much cheaper than the west. but when you're working, you work hard. If you're after an upgade and then stay for 3 years then yes it is a good deal. After 3 years you'll have a bunch of command hours and can look at your options then.

But be prepared for a 1 week roster that comes out at 1800 on thursday for the friday. it then changes every 2 or 3 days, you only get 1 day a week off which you may not know about until the evening before. And a constant battle with rostering just to get the bare minimum that you are entitled to.

As an example. I've had 3 days off this month so far. When it all comes to a head end of next week when i tell them they owe me 4 days off in the last week, the day i did on standby earlier in the month will curiously change to a day off and i will have to bring in my printed roster to show them that it was a standby day. It just gets tedious after a while. I didn't have to keep every roster for the last year in my last company. i do now.

3/1 is possible but you still only get 6 free tickets a year. And i wouldn't recommend it because you will not get any days off at all.

I'm also curious as to who told you you'd be in your own bed every night. Thats' a complete lie.

ia... thanks for the "no bull" insight....

ironically enough, It looks like I won't be offered the position. I have a PIC bus type, with about 200 hours in the right seat, but PARC is hard and fast on the 1000 in type. I am on reserve right now and it would take me over a year to make up the difference.

it's ironic becuase I have zero ties or commitments here, would love to relocate overseas, am not afriad of flying... a lot.

there is a huge disparity between guys with magic numbers in their log books who can pick and choose jobs anywhere, and guys like me with the type ratings, but not the right amount of time. I have to BEG for flying here.

Anyone know which agencies are doing contracts for Jetstar Pacific or if it is better to contact them directly?

Anyone knows how long before they let you upgrade? Do you have to finish one contract or can you upgrade before that?

So will they still bond you for an upgrade if you already have an A320 command type. I can see if you do not have a command type, but if you do it doesn't really make sense.
Secondly, why does Rish require 500 hrs on type and Parc 1000. The contracts are almost identical and obviously you land up at the same airline.

Haven't been able to find a lot on JetStar hiring or compensation... I found an e-mail address on the website, but have heard nothing back

ia1166,

I was in Vietnam from 2003-2006 on the B767 and it was much better than what you describe. Back then the A320 fleet worked considerably harder than either the B767 or B777 fleet.

It sounds like you are on the A320.

How is it on the B777 now?

B777. Totally happy as far as i know. I do know you LIS. well i'm pretty sure anyway and it ain't anything like when you and the canadians were here. The A320 is a constant battle. I used to recommend this place to my mates. Pretty much every skipper i know has been looking at somewhere else

ia1166

This was posted earlier on this thread:

The above was what I used to formulate what I thought conditions would be like with Vietnam on the 320. If this is a truly typical weekly schedule than I can handle it, even though it is definitely more work than where I am at right now.

I wouldn't be thinking of going to SGN but the large carrier I am working for is in deep financial crisis and is announcing big cuts in the coming year.

Well that's not a typical roster i assure you. maybe a 1 week special but you don't get more than 7 days a month so how can you get 2 off a week? Someone is talking it up.

You rarly get 2 together, unless you take in choclates/presents/money. And those that do don't care that by doing so they are making their work collegues pick up their slackness.

They know who they are.

And home at night.???? all day flights???????is that person here???? What's his nickname and i'll find out who it is. He's pulling your chain. Or he's paying for a roster like that.

Most of us pull 20 sectors a week . One of the captains i know usually does 70 sectors/90 hours a month. Whoever is getting this roster is definately not pulling his weight.

Anyway i can't be bothered to look up whoever is spouting that drivel. Whoever it is they've been remarkably quiet to my tirade on here. Proves the point.

Hey Hook... I'm in the same boat as you, it sounds like even with the same company. My plan is to rack up as much 320 time as possible until the furlough comes. Rishworth has this contract with 500 hours in type, and I figure that should be doable by November. Just keep flying as much as possible and hope for the best.

Right. :ugh:

ia1166, in addition, pilots are looking at this thread for information, not squabbling, you are entitled to your opinion, but don't make any wild ass assumptions because I don't get involved in your baiting. People are smart enough to see through the bs.

right. and how is the happy chocolates for Lan doing for you. I've stood next to you as have many of us and watched you do it. Lan is getting fat Don't use your roster as an example for everyone else.

in case it's escaped your attention, most of us are rostered 2 to 3 nights a week in hanoi, so we're not home every night. And 2 days off a week? You're passing out incorrect information. If someone was to resign from his present company on the strength of your comments it wouldn't be very fair would it.

Thats one of the first rules you learn in the aviation industry, do what you can for scheduling and they will help make your life a lot better in this industry most of the time. Look at SWA airlines they give pizza and drinks to ATC, and look at the treatment they get, everybody has to wait for them to taxi by. You cant fault someone for being smarter than you!

for a company to do it for the better of the company is one thing. to do it out of your own pocket so you get more time off or just cushy day flights than your collegues which results in everyone working harder than you is not. If we all did that where would it stop. Should we all start paying the airline for the better flights? Maybe a bid line should be published and we can buy our roster every week.

The first thing you learn in life is that if everyone works together life is good for everyone.

Or are you really that selfish.