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-   -   Vietnam Airlines (info please) (https://www.pprune.org/south-asia-far-east/295663-vietnam-airlines-info-please.html)

Dihedral1 4th Sep 2014 13:51

never home
I sent you a PM.
But as a bad as you think BA is, most contractors would would give their left nut, to have the sort of representation BALPA provides
and the package you have, even if somewhat diminished.

NG708 4th Sep 2014 13:59

Cheers Luke. Could be buying you that beer soon...:p

never_home 5th Sep 2014 09:38

never_home I could answer all those questions but I'd rather just say "you're a fool". Do NOT leave a senior position in BA for the A321 fleet here.
Ouch! That hurt, but I guess I did ask for it. :E

Seriously, though. Thanks for that, I will certainly bear it in mind. The grass isn't always greener but that also works both ways. We, in BA, have had a substantial number of DEP recruits return to their previous airlines in recent months. Many of the attractions of joining the airline are now vanishing and faced with the prospect of >20 years to command with very little pension provision and paid no better than UK market rate whilst working harder than colleagues in other airlines, many people are looking at their options.

BA are recruiting, funnily enough, if anyone wants to apply. :=

Cheers all.

Dormant Dog 6th Sep 2014 10:40

Never-home, in that case, of semi-commuting, the UK tax man would still consider you a UK tax resident. Get some very good tax advice first.

never_home 6th Sep 2014 11:35

Thanks Dormant Dog

That is true, and very good advice. My understanding is that the UK and Vietnam have signed a double taxation agreement whereby taxes paid in Vietnam may be offset against tax arising in the UK.

Do VN pay the Vietnamese taxes on a pilot's behalf as in China? What kind of percentage tax is payable on a pilots salary in Vietnam?

pilotcpb 6th Sep 2014 22:14

While on the topic of taxes and commuting, does one get an RP in Vietnam? Thanks.

vivek67 7th Sep 2014 07:43

a330 Captains flying n future in Vietnam Airlines
hi Luke,

that was a very informative write up. You got any idea about the A330 Captain flying and future prospects.


Luke SkyToddler 10th Sep 2014 08:51

vivek the 330s are supposed to be starting to get retired in 2016 and all gone by 2019 as the 350s arrive. It's much the same time frame for the 777s getting replaced with 787s.

I'd say almost certainly that they will still have a need for widebody captains at that time but, the million dollar question is, what will they do to handle the transfer of expats onto the new generation types. They haven't announced anything yet with regard to contracts & salary on the new types, or the cost of conversion. Based on past performance, it's unlikely to be handed out for free.

So joining on 330 and 777 now is a bit of a punt, it might be a quick way into a next-gen rating in a couple of years, or it could be a total dead end, depends on what the deal is for the new ratings.

Here's some more food for thought :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: Saigoneer | Exploring Saigon and Beyond - Hanoi Is The Most Polluted City In SE Asia Says Expert

Dihedral1 10th Sep 2014 10:08

Who will pay for the new toys
Without a king: Vietnam SOE reform needs solidarity - Equity - Deals - News - FinanceAsia.com - The network for financial decision makers

frog777 10th Sep 2014 16:37

B777 Capt position with VAC

I've seen vacancies for B777 capt with VAC and I'm considering such an experience. Before applying, I'd like to have infos from other expat capt. working with VAC. I've been contacted by placement agencies quite often, but never been a contract pilot. So, if some guys could discuss with me about VAC either on the forum or by private message, I'd be grateful.
Many thanks,

Safe flights and happy landings

Dihedral1 10th Sep 2014 18:45

Specifics Frog777
Hi, have you read through this thread? Maybe some questions have already been answered, maybe you could be more specific, what do you want to know.
Luke has recently given a good overview and I have chipped in with a few..:cool:

FFRATS 11th Sep 2014 05:00

PARC and Rishworth are very similar, pay the same, both offer medical and support services and both have good guys here on the ground to help their pilots out.
Not sure about Rishworth but PARC have been next to useless in helping many Vietnam contract pilots I know.

Offer to help sort out problems that could be averted with sound management and guidance before the usual ones arise. Then still come back with it's a company problem after you ask for help. :ugh:

No amount of free 60c beers washes away the bad taste of them getting your money for little or no effort after you sign a contract.

As mentioned, no real increase in contract amount in how many years?


pandazoo 15th Sep 2014 12:36

On the subject of UK tax. It looks like it can but complicated but a question for the guys out there.......is the following correct?

It looks as if tax is paid at source and the agency payment is takehome pay. As long as you are spending less than 183 days in the uk in any one tax year or collectively less than 91 days a year in any four consecutive tax years then you are not liable for payment of uk tax.

This is on basic working pay and does not include any other liabilities, property's, dependents etc. thanks.

Border Reiver 15th Sep 2014 15:26

No, UK tax is far more complicated than that sadly. The guidence notes are available on line and warrent close study. Depending on your ties, family availability of accommodation etc, you might be left with far less than 90 days. It is also now not an average.

On the positive side it is all now laid down on line.

pandazoo 15th Sep 2014 17:31

Ok thanks, I've had a quick look at the SRT and the Double Taxation agreement for the commuting contract, I'll dig a bit deeper.

If you have any links to more guidance notes that can help that would be appreciated. Thanks

Just an other number 15th Sep 2014 17:50

Vietnam Income Tax
Back to Never Home's question on 6 September; I don't know what VN pilots are paid but I can give you the tax caculation for 100,000,000 Vietnam Dong per month, approx USD 4,717 per month, USD 56,600 per annum.
The overall rate of tax is 22% on this level of salary and the marginal rate is 35%. Vietnam operates Pay As You Earn with tax deducted from monthly pay.

Monthly Tax Calculation in Vietnam Dong and USD
Gross pay 100,000,000 $4,717
Less tax relief 9,000,000 $425
Monthly Taxable Income 91,000,000 $4,292
Tax Bands -
5% on first 5,000,000 tax is 250,000 $12
10% on next 5,000,000 tax is 500,000 $24
15% on next 8,000,000 tax is 1,200,000 $57
20% on next 14,000,000 tax is 2,800,000 $132
25% on next 20,000,000 tax is 5,000,000 $236
30% on next 28,000,000 tax is 8,400,000 $396
35% Above 80,000,000 tax is 3,850,000 $182
Total Tax 22,000,000 $1,038
Net Monthly pay 78,000,000 $3,679
Total deductions are 22%

Obviously you can use this to calculate tax on lower or higher salaries. The VND 9 Mn tax relief is a single person's personal allowance. This is a straightforward calculation, tax will also be charged on other benefits received such as medical; but this is charged at the marginal rate at year end.

My apologies for the formatting, this was done in excel, copied into word and copied into Pprune!

Luke SkyToddler 16th Sep 2014 03:32

The taxation thing with VNA is a very hot topic and it's way too complex to start getting into on this forum

To make a very long story very short, historically the expat pilots were not registered as individuals with the Vietnamese tax office, the airline dealt with our tax obligations through some other internal mechanism within the government :rolleyes:

That all changed about 18 months ago and now we are all either finished, or still going through the process, of getting individually legally registered with the Viet tax man.

People have, in the past, had issues with double taxation on return to their home countries, because the required paperwork was not available from the VN gov't.

The agencies say, that this should be less of a problem under the new system, and we should in the future be able to get these tax certificates from the VN government. However, it's a work in progress, as this is the first year we've spent under the new system.

As always, I would really advise anyone who thinks they might be affected by double taxation issues, to get professional advice and don't trust the opinion of anyone on the internet

vivek67 16th Sep 2014 05:10

A330 Captains flying n future in Vietnam Airlines
Hi Luke..thanks for the info.....could you also tell what kind of flying one can expect on the 330 fleet & please keep me posted with future updates. Thanks. Vivek

pandazoo 16th Sep 2014 15:15

That helps guys thanks. Good thread this thanks to all for contributing.

BlackandWhite2000 17th Sep 2014 08:17

So surprised to see this thread somehow comes alive again.

I stayed in VNA for 3 years, so I know it quite well.
First thing first.
Will I recommend you to join VNA now, as in Sep/2014 and hereafter?
The quick answer is:It all depands on the fleet.

For 321 CAP and FO:Absolutely "NO".
There is no discussion, the answer is just "NO". Even some local pilots are trying to running away from VNA 321 fleet to join the LCC Vietjet, this should explain everything. You fly as a dog, not as a human being. Always fly 5 or 6 days in a row, and then you get only 1 day off, and then again 5 or 6 days hard working in a row. Expect to fly 3 or 4 sectors EVERYDAY to small airports without ILS, and expect to begin your doggy day from 6:00 AM!(which means you have to wake up at 4:00 AM) As a CAP, you get less than 11000 usd per month(less than Vietjet) And guess what, the first year you only get 90% of your salary! So in fact in the first year, your salary as a 321 CAP is less than 10000 usd. Dont ask me why is the 10% deduction in the first year, this is the way it is, it is in every contract, there is no escape! Come on guys, you can easily get more than 16000 usd in China as a 321 CAP. Yes, in China you also fly domestic flights, but you fly to big airports with ILS. In VNA, you fly to so many small airports without ILS and without radar control. Every month there are some unstable approaches in 321 fleet, not a big surprise considering the workload along with so many non-precision approaches. Come on guys, dont talk to me the "air pollution" or "politics" issues in China, it is more or less the same in Vietnam. Many guys get their upgrade in VNA 321 and running away within 1 year after check out, this should explain why VNA never stops looking for direct entry 321 CAP for at least 6 years already, and its only getting worse because VNA is doing nothing to improve the bad working conditions in 321 fleet but saying:"We thank you for your hard working!" Yes, drivers in turn around fleet always work harder, but VNA 321 fleet is really one of the most difficult 321 job out there, with a very low salary.

For 777 CAP and FO:Go for it!
Especially if you are 777 FO, and you enjoy the benefit of long hual fleet and dont worry about the upgrade that much. In fact, many senior 777 FO refuse to upgrade in 321, as the difference in salary is only 1000 usd per month, but the roster and life style....it is heaven v.s. hell! I will say the 777 FO job in VNA is one of the best FO job out there:Salary is good; Job security is good; Roster and life style is good! As a 777 CAP, you will be working harder than FO, but still, it is not that bad. All you fly is to Euro, how many euro you can fly in one month anyway! And you have multiple crews or even double crews to Euro. Come on guys, it is not that bad actually.

For 330 CAP and FO:The answer is probably "NO".
Both CAP and FO fly 85~95 hours or even more every month. Expect at least 5 overnight flights and many domestic flights every month. Dont expect you can take some rest in the bunk when you fly those overnight flights, because theres no bunk in 330 and you only have 2 pilots. Yes, even on the 8.5 hours overnight flights to Astralia, you only have 2 pilots in he cockpit. Actually the roster and lifestyle in 330 is not so much different than those in 321 now, sometimes it is even worse because you get fatigue from both overnight flights and turn around domestic flights. For guys looking into chances to transfer to 350, it is positive. But hey...listen carefully, you have to pay for the training fee by youself, along with a training bond(you say:"what the fxxx...I pay for the training and I still have to be bonded?" I say:"man, that is the way it is in Vietnam", there is no escape), and you have "ZERO" salary until you begin the line training, and guess what...you will again get only 90% salary in 350 fleet for the first year.(I know, you again say:"what the fxxx...") Still feeling like to show off your 350 cockpit photos on FB? Well....you have been warmed.

The training fee/bond, 10% salary deduction in the 1st year....these also apply to guys transfer from 777 to 787. The thing is, all the 330 in VNA are on lease, which means you have to move to other fleet eventually, just a matter of time. While for 777, I can not remember the exact number but some 777 are actually owned by VNA, so VNA is going to keep some 777 operations. So if you dont like to accept those "what the fxxx", you can choose to stay in 777, not a problem.

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