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All Korean Air and Asiana Airlines Pilots

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All Korean Air and Asiana Airlines Pilots

Old 22nd Jun 2020, 00:17
  #21 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by WYOMINGPILOT View Post
Complaining and whining on PPRuNe won’t fix your problem. Your way forward is to consolidate as many pilots as possible into a blanket umbrella labor complaint and pool your money to get professional legal counsel to force the airline to pay your 60 days severance. If they soon go bankrupt you will have little recourse so time is of the essence to get a complaint posted before the airlines seek bankruptcy protection. Many of us Expats have been through and airline bankruptcy and received nothing and forfeiting our final months salary and zero severance pay. Airlines can try and make the argument they cannot pay you anything due to extenuating circumstances ie Force Majeure which is out of their control and paying the severance pay due would financially cause serious harm to them. Up to a Court to decide. I suggest you get professional legal counsel immediately. It’s like asking for tax advice on PPRuNe, that don’t work well. Get a professional Korean Labour Law attorney and pool your cases so as to spread your attorney fees out. Good luck.

I'm already steps ahead of your advice. We have already retained legal counsel and have assembled a few people who are financially able to contribute into the fund. I was not seeking advice, if you read my post, nor did I come here to vent my complaints. My original post was to try to band together to force these airlines to pay what is legally due to us. But clearly some people just want to lay down and take it in the arse with the heads in the ground without fighting for what they are legally entitled!
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 01:11
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Good luck and please keep us informed! Positive or negative
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 01:54
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by av8tordude View Post
I'm already steps ahead of your advice. We have already retained legal counsel and have assembled a few people who are financially able to contribute into the fund. I was not seeking advice, if you read my post, nor did I come here to vent my complaints. My original post was to try to band together to force these airlines to pay what is legally due to us. But clearly some people just want to lay down and take it in the arse with the heads in the ground without fighting for what they are legally entitled!

What you think is legally due and what the airlines think are two vastly separate entities. I hope for the best for you but paying 20k in attorney fees to try and gain back 2 months salary is only making your attorneys rich. Besides at some point KAL and Asiana are likely to require the services of Expat pilots in the long future. Having your attorney negotiate an acceptable settlement to just your group might be the best path forward before you exhaust any potential 2 months of salary in rapidly escalating attorney fees if this goes to a full Court trial. Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 22nd Jun 2020, 14:19
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flyoveriraq View Post
lee_apromise;

The ministry's interpretation of the Article 24 is:
"Article 24 states that the employer must try to avoid termination of the employment however should the need to terminate the employment arise, there should be a fair standard and process of employment termination and choose the employees to be terminated based on the fair due process. However, if the employer forces unpaid leave upon employees to save as many jobs as possible, ultimately this is for the benefit of employees. The forced unpaid leave may only be allowed if there was a severe economic hardships of the business enterprise. The forced unpaid leave may only be awarded upon those who are chosen to be terminated based on fair and reasonable process and methods."

Thanks, this explains everything. Unfortunately it is not like that.

Western superiority?!?! I will not answer to that. I lived half of my life in foreign countries and always adapted nicely with local culture. What I can say is that amongst majority of nice and cultured people Iíve met, there is always a bunch of idiots thinking that foreigners are evil and stealing jobs from locals......
Then why did you make a comment of my English skills? You certainly presume locals have worse English skills than yours.

I am totally not defending the airline management in Korea, we all know how Cho and Park families treat their employees.

And lets get this fact right. Asiana did get an investor. Hyundai HDC. Was the deal finalized? No. Hyundai HDC informed the creditors and KDB that it wants to start the negotiation from the scratch. Insiders and news reports are saying Hyundai HDC is trying to get out of this deal even by paying the penalty. If this deal doesnít go through, Kumho is going to collapse as well. Now if Hyundai HDC goes through the deal with the previously agreed price, Hyundai HDC will be sued by its shareholders for the breach of duty because Kumho Asiana Group did not disclose the full debt it carries to Hyundai HDC. What did you expect from Korean conglomerates?

So you guys can argue about getting unpaid leave not specified in the contract. Locals donít have unpaid leave specified in the contract either. The labor law and the case law clearly states that in case of Force Majuere, unpaid leave is allowed if they were chosen to be terminated anyway.

I wonder how the court or the labor tribunal will think about your case when Asiana is taking unpaid leave from all employees and didn't transfer the employee contribution of national health insurance and national pension system to each respective organization. Sounds familiar? This is what happened to EastarJet employees before the company shutdown.

Last edited by lee_apromise; 22nd Jun 2020 at 18:19.
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Old 23rd Jun 2020, 18:52
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
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This just came across my desk...

US Federal law, but interesting discussion.
https://federalbarcle.org/product/yo...-covid-19-era/
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 13:40
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lee_apromise View Post
Then why did you make a comment of my English skills? You certainly presume locals have worse English skills than yours.

I am totally not defending the airline management in Korea, we all know how Cho and Park families treat their employees.

And lets get this fact right. Asiana did get an investor. Hyundai HDC. Was the deal finalized? No. Hyundai HDC informed the creditors and KDB that it wants to start the negotiation from the scratch. Insiders and news reports are saying Hyundai HDC is trying to get out of this deal even by paying the penalty. If this deal doesnít go through, Kumho is going to collapse as well. Now if Hyundai HDC goes through the deal with the previously agreed price, Hyundai HDC will be sued by its shareholders for the breach of duty because Kumho Asiana Group did not disclose the full debt it carries to Hyundai HDC. What did you expect from Korean conglomerates?

So you guys can argue about getting unpaid leave not specified in the contract. Locals donít have unpaid leave specified in the contract either. The labor law and the case law clearly states that in case of Force Majuere, unpaid leave is allowed if they were chosen to be terminated anyway.

I wonder how the court or the labor tribunal will think about your case when Asiana is taking unpaid leave from all employees and didn't transfer the employee contribution of national health insurance and national pension system to each respective organization. Sounds familiar? This is what happened to EastarJet employees before the company shutdown.
Actually the comment was on my english.....
I also notice that you have no clue on legal matters except being good in cut and paste, so discussion end here.
enjoy your autolands in windshear.....
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 19:46
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flyoveriraq View Post
Actually the comment was on my english.....
I also notice that you have no clue on legal matters except being good in cut and paste, so discussion end here.
enjoy your autolands in windshear.....
LOL, right comment on your English lol.

Yeah i don't work in Korea. And as if you hold a law degree. Enjoy your cocky western attitude while it lasts.

Talking about someone posting common law Force Majuere case whilst not knowing Korea is a civil law jurisdiction. Jeez, get some more knowledge old man.

Your comment "enjoy autolands in windshear" definitely tells you about your attitude towards locals.

Last edited by lee_apromise; 28th Jun 2020 at 20:07.
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 20:24
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Snoop

Originally Posted by Flyoveriraq View Post
enjoy your autolands in windshear.....

Regardless of manual or autoland.......to even think about landing in windshear is just bizarre!
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 21:13
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by lee_apromise View Post
LOL, right comment on your English lol.

Yeah i don't work in Korea. And as if you hold a law degree. Enjoy your cocky western attitude while it lasts.

Talking about someone posting common law Force Majuere case whilst not knowing Korea is a civil law jurisdiction. Jeez, get some more knowledge old man.

Your comment "enjoy autolands in windshear" definitely tells you about your attitude towards locals.
poor boy....I feel sorry for you.....
you are nothing but a freaking troll......
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Old 28th Jun 2020, 23:17
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flyoveriraq View Post
poor boy....I feel sorry for you.....
you are nothing but a freaking troll......
Jeez, you are the one who doesn't even have actual facts of Asiana and legal precedents regarding labor code.

That's the best you can do right? Branding some as a troll without doing a proper rebuttal? I'm the one who feel sorry for you, ignorant uninformed expat without actual proper information pretending to be an legal expert.

I suggest you get better attitudes towards locals. Your attitude stinks.
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Old 30th Jun 2020, 20:19
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
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Unfortunately all expat Korean Air first officers, A380 and 737 pilots had their jobs terminated today.
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Old 2nd Jul 2020, 08:39
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
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Good luck trying to get your word in with Korean courts. Itís a very pro-business, anti-labor country. Itís a country where even murder is pretty much forgiven if you were under the influence of alcohol, to give you an idea. (little more complicated, but you get the idea) But Korean food is delicious!! Situation isnít much better across the pond.
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