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VNA - expat pilots working without pay

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VNA - expat pilots working without pay

Old 23rd Apr 2020, 04:03
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VNA - expat pilots working without pay

Just read in the Vietnam Airlines magazine about an expat pilot working without getting paid. Apparently there are a few more doing the same. While all VNA expat pilots have been put on unpaid leave till at least the end of the year, this bunch is taking the profession to new lows ! The impact of COVID-19 is unfortunate to tragic without a doubt, but this bunch is rewarding this company for years of financial mismanagement and failure to save money for the rainy day ... Can’t wait for the first one to post some explanation and understanding for these actions 🤔.

Last edited by wingdeagle; 23rd Apr 2020 at 04:19.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 04:51
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I do remember this guy. 320 skipper. In a meeting with the CEO last year he was wondering why he isn’t getting on the 787 although he offered to pay for it.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 06:38
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Care to post a link?

Last I heard it was LWOP for 3 months. Probably a bit hopeful but I have not heard any mention of rest of the year.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 08:59
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Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
Care to post a link?

Last I heard it was LWOP for 3 months. Probably a bit hopeful but I have not heard any mention of rest of the year.
[Covid-19] "The pandemic came suddenly, so I decided to make a surprise for VNA" | Tin t?c | Vietnamairlines
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 12:52
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I’m lost for words
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 14:27
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Hope he has alot of savings. It seems this legend in his own mind
doing that bravo sierra and now we know his face as well appears
not very smart.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 18:36
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How low can this profession get? Probably less scabs working in Mcdonalds...
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 18:52
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You know what, the whole industry is faced with an existential crisis. This guy has said he loves his company and he is happy to help them out. I know this doesn't resonate well with a lot of us that have been screwed around by companies in the past. But is it really that crazy? He gets to keep flying which he obviously enjoys. I don't think this is a long term thing and he will probably get rewarded by the company if and when long haul flying restarts. I thoroughly expect to be lectured as to how I don't understand what is going on and that he is a scab. But who knows what is going to happen next and right now his strategy does not look any more or less likely to succeed than any other in the crazy situation we all find ourselves in. He is at least doing something rather than sitting on his hands. I expect the lynch mob will prevail but we find ourselves in an extraordinary situation and maybe thinking outside the box is the right answer.
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Old 23rd Apr 2020, 19:05
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Well, well... unfortunately I'll forcibly calm down during this long unpaid leave, before I have the chance to come upon him at dispatch.

A few more like this climbing plant and we are done.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 08:24
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Are the Local VNA Pilots on unpaid leave as well or some working for free?
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 09:04
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How about if he has any incidents out on line whilst he is volunteering to fly for free!
What a conundrum to be in if SHTF!
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 13:00
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Originally Posted by lederhosen View Post
You know what, the whole industry is faced with an existential crisis. This guy has said he loves his company and he is happy to help them out. I know this doesn't resonate well with a lot of us that have been screwed around by companies in the past. But is it really that crazy? He gets to keep flying which he obviously enjoys. I don't think this is a long term thing and he will probably get rewarded by the company if and when long haul flying restarts. I thoroughly expect to be lectured as to how I don't understand what is going on and that he is a scab. But who knows what is going to happen next and right now his strategy does not look any more or less likely to succeed than any other in the crazy situation we all find ourselves in. He is at least doing something rather than sitting on his hands. I expect the lynch mob will prevail but we find ourselves in an extraordinary situation and maybe thinking outside the box is the right answer.
He is a scab. He is working for free when other pilots are on furlough or LWOP or whatever you call it. It is the same as pilots picking up open time when other pilots are still on furlough.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 21:10
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The contract world. In a nutshell. P2F becomes F4F.

Be interesting to see if VN pays for his sim check though. Easy enough to fly for free, bit harder to get a sim when all sims and medicals for expats have been cancelled.

As an expat who came home to be with his Family and not a possible burden on Vietnams health care system, I doubt that will be held against me so I wouldn’t concern yourselves with it.

He’s not a scab either. This is not a strike or employment dispute. There are hardly any flights operating, so its entirely reasonable to send the expats on unpaid leave until the situation improves to save the airline from bankruptcy. Also to hopefully bring them back as soon as possible.

If an expat who has remained in VN tries to keep his 90 day currency intact by operating the odd flight for free then good luck to him. Its not like he will be breaking a picket line every day. If he ultimately gets what he wants in the long run, then well played.

Last edited by ia1166; 24th Apr 2020 at 21:32.
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Old 24th Apr 2020, 22:58
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Make no doubt about it, he’s a scab. The more pilots that are willing to do what he’s done, the longer you’ll be sitting at home waiting and wondering how you’re going to pay your bills. Why would they pay you to fly when they’ve got a scab who’ll do it for free?

It completely devalues our profession. It’s bad enough new starters to our industry doing it, an experienced Captain should know better. Even a prostitute never works for free.

Last edited by wishiwasupthere; 25th Apr 2020 at 01:20.
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 04:55
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ia1166 you're right on one level re no loyalty in the contract world, but you've forgotten one thing, this guy is also screwing the locals over. They're the ones who are paid by the hour, not us, they're on reduced salary and struggling to survive as well, every hour he flies for free is one less weeks worth of groceries for one of them, I know for a fact that some of them are extremely p***ed off about it.

We've all heard the stories, or know people who learned the hard way, you don't mess with the Vietnamese in their own country without getting payback. He'll be gone within a few months
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 08:40
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Originally Posted by Elise Randolph View Post
He'll be gone within a few months
Yeah, to Vietjet

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Old 25th Apr 2020, 11:50
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This guy really shouldn't be doing this, not good for his colleague expats at VNA at all I'm not impressed by these types.
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 14:05
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indolent pilot

As an expat pilot, working for VNA, all expat pilots, we are against this pilot, in addition to our Vietnamese colleagues as they are being paid per flight hour and their daily livelihood is being taken away, because of this guy, the same Vietnamese instructors are going to take care of that disloyal, I give him signed
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 17:43
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The company is generating revenue with the flights. Or are the passengers flying for free? Then ask yourself a few questions.

Is all the other staff (F/O, cabin crew, ground services, dispatch, management etc) working for free?
If not, why is he working for free?
Without him, wouldn´t VNA need to pay a pilot to operate the flights?




Last edited by wondering; 26th Apr 2020 at 12:33.
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Old 25th Apr 2020, 22:57
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As always everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

As far as I am aware the locals are on half pay. The management are unpaid. If they put all the locals on unpaid and this guy does all the operating flights for free then you have a point but i doubt this is the case.

There are almost no flights operating anyway. I cannot see how any locals are suffering extra because one expat makes this kind of offer.

Those of you using the scab name obviously don’t know the meaning of the word. The days of pilot picket lines outside airports are long gone. There is no basis for this moniker in the contract pilot world.

As for the thinly veiled threats that the local DPEs will lynch him. That just won’t happen, so stop the trolling and baseless threats.

lets keep this in perspective. There are no flights operating anyway.
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