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KOREAN AIR expat pilots?

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KOREAN AIR expat pilots?

Old 7th Jun 2020, 20:54
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Madrid
Posts: 156
I donīt have my contract at hand but as I can recall:
i) My contract was signed by the agency, not KAL and not according the korean law. We are not KAL employees thats why we donīt have their benefits according to the local labour law ( such as End of Service bonus or health care). Ask those former expat pilots that tried to sue the company for this reason. They paid a bunch of money to a lawyer and results?
ii) One of the first contract clauses states that we will never join any industrial action, maybe it can be named as "scabs".

Regards
alatriste is offline  
Old 7th Jun 2020, 23:05
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Enroute
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Most of the contracts are now under New Zealand law but tax is being payed in Korea with basically zero benefits in return.
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 04:16
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: uae
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CCL New Zealand? Didn't think so .
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Old 8th Jun 2020, 05:19
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Originally Posted by fatbus View Post
CCL New Zealand? Didn't think so .
yes since a few years.
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Old 11th Jun 2020, 10:50
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Pyongyang
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So did these agencies in NZL claim the NZ Government handout due to a reduction Business currently?
It would be interesting to hear....
CCL and Rishworth would you care to comment.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 04:18
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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To all who are may be interested.

As you know, Asiana Airline and Korean Airlines has placed the majority of the Expat pilots on unpaid leave due to the events of the current pandemic. While we all understand the difficult times the airlines are experiencing, this does not justify the blatant disregards to fulfilling their contract duties under Korean Labor Law. 4 Months ago, I have been forced to take unpaid leave, however nowhere in my employment contract states this is allowed. I have not received a salary legally owed to me since the forced unpaid leave. As of this writing, I just received notice that Asiana has sent my agency notice that my contract has been terminated with " 2-months notification” as provided in my contract.

I, just like you, am angry at the way we have been treated. When they needed us, we gave them full support without hesitation, but now when we need them, they want to turn the backs on us and throw away like trash. I don't know about you, but this is not acceptable!!!!

I would like be seek a reputable law firm astute in Korean law to seek compensation, but I cannot personally or financially do this alone. I need everyone who has been affected by this to join with me to fight what we are legally owe to us. If you want to join me, you may contact me


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Old 15th Jun 2020, 07:05
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: sunny italy
Posts: 42
Welcome to contract job... they pay you the 2months notice like itís written in the contract ? Not a funny situation but itís correct. You also have the right to leave them with 1 or 2 months notice.
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 07:25
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by VORDME2 View Post
Welcome to contract job... they pay you the 2months notice like itís written in the contract ? Not a funny situation but itís correct. You also have the right to leave them with 1 or 2 months notice.
The company is refusing to pay the 2 months salary even its written in the contract (as you so eloquently put it)! I'm not oblivious to the contract world!
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Old 15th Jun 2020, 09:07
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: ME
Age: 47
Posts: 9
Guys, reading this thread I realised that I shouldn't wait for a reply to my CV from Rishworth in the nearest future
pilot20002000 is offline  
Old 13th Jan 2021, 21:25
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: ME
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Any update?
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 05:37
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by Saudia330 View Post
Any update?
You haven't heard the news that Korean Air is buying Asiana?

Once the merger is complete, zero chance of expats working for KAL. Too many surplus local pilots.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 14:24
  #52 (permalink)  
The Bumblebee
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
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All 380 expats sacked, all 737 expats sacked, all 330 expats are on leave without pay since April 2020, most 777 and 747 expats are on leave without pay since April 2020. Around 30 pilots were recalled in November 20202, on 777/747, to meet the cargo demands. Since then the announcement was made that KE is acquiring OZ. Now I personally think there are zero chances of any expats to be recalled. If you were not working there before pandemic, you have no chances of a job there. I don't think they will be hiring anytime soon. Good luck.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 17:42
  #53 (permalink)  
INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK
 
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Hopefully the company has plans to recall expats this year sometime. Some contracts of pilots on leave have even just been renewed, which would seem to indicate a plan in the near future for more pilots needed. Just my guess.
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Old 14th Jan 2021, 20:20
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
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Posts: 68
Originally Posted by lee_apromise View Post
You haven't heard the news that Korean Air is buying Asiana?

Once the merger is complete, zero chance of expats working for KAL. Too many surplus local pilots.
The current actions KE is taking don't support your statement. Much like many other carriers, KE could have easily gotten rid of the entire expat group over the course of the summer. They have chosen not to go that route. There are many contingencies that will play out as the two carriers merge and your observation is too simplistic to be categorically true. It may go that direction but I would not underestimate the desire of KE to not have all their eggs in one basket for their pilot employment group. There are many benefits to not having their pilots speak with one unified voice and these should appear obvious to anyone who has been in the industry long enough to understand how airline management works. I expect nationalistic tendencies to be much stronger as the world emerges from the pandemic but many of the reasons KE had expats in the first place have not changed measurably.
If you have other solid data to support your conclusion, I am sure many on here would be very interested to understand your very black and white determination.
Bindair Dundat is online now  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 22:22
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Perpetually Commuting
Posts: 250
Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat View Post
There are many benefits to not having their pilots speak with one unified voice and these should appear obvious to anyone who has been in the industry long enough to understand how airline management works.
Were you a Union busting pilot (scab) in Europe before you came to KAL? Jeez, I'm speechless.

Asiana B767: Antique, time to be retired
Asiana A350: RR powered, KAL doesn't want any RR engines, besides all are leased anyway. Will be returned to the leasing companies.
Asiana A380: RR powered, same reason as above.
Asiana B772: Antique, time to be retired (they were supposed to be retired anyway)
Asiana B744: Only one pax version left, it's gotta go. May be KAL will keep some B744F.
Asiana A330: PW powered so will probably stay at KAL group.
Asiana A320/A321: NEO versions will definitely stay as KAL has an order for A321N.

The only reason KAL recalled some expats on 747 and 777 were to meet short term demand for cargo. Once the merger is complete, plenty of 747 and 777 rated local pilots to fly original KAL airplanes. The company didn't have time to wait for locals to go through type rating training so the union agreed to a short term relief.

Other than that, the merger of Jin Air, Air Seoul and Air Busan into one. Fleet commonality will happen creating surplus local pilots that cannot be terminated under Korean labor code.

Sorry, expats are done at KAL group.
lee_apromise is offline  
Old 14th Jan 2021, 22:26
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by DesiPilot View Post
All 380 expats sacked, all 737 expats sacked, all 330 expats are on leave without pay since April 2020, most 777 and 747 expats are on leave without pay since April 2020. Around 30 pilots were recalled in November 20202, on 777/747, to meet the cargo demands. Since then the announcement was made that KE is acquiring OZ. Now I personally think there are zero chances of any expats to be recalled. If you were not working there before pandemic, you have no chances of a job there. I don't think they will be hiring anytime soon. Good luck.
At least you got it.
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Old 15th Jan 2021, 00:55
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Korea
Posts: 8
All this is understandable, expats were there to fill a shortage. Most expats have moved on anyway. The ones still there are actively working on an exit strategy knowing full well itís a temp job at best.

The integration of the KAL and Asiana pilot groups will be toxic at best. I feel sorry for a lot of good Korean pilots for what they are going to experience with merger headaches.

As mentioned, Asiana brings a lot of old equipment and unsuitable types. KAL First Officers will unfortunately have a VERY long wait to the left seat now and ironically will probably end up being expats themselves to advance or even maintain their careers.

Good luck to everyone still there, local and expat.










BeeforBeef is offline  
Old 15th Jan 2021, 02:18
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 68
Originally Posted by BeeforBeef View Post
All this is understandable, expats were there to fill a shortage. Most expats have moved on anyway. The ones still there are actively working on an exit strategy knowing full well itís a temp job at best.

The integration of the KAL and Asiana pilot groups will be toxic at best. I feel sorry for a lot of good Korean pilots for what they are going to experience with merger headaches.

As mentioned, Asiana brings a lot of old equipment and unsuitable types. KAL First Officers will unfortunately have a VERY long wait to the left seat now and ironically will probably end up being expats themselves to advance or even maintain their careers.

Good luck to everyone still there, local and expat.
Agreed good luck to everyone - locals and expats for the longterm recovery of the industry.
Bindair Dundat is online now  
Old 17th Jan 2021, 17:44
  #59 (permalink)  
The Bumblebee
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Inside the shiny tube.
Posts: 332
Originally Posted by Bindair Dundat View Post
The current actions KE is taking don't support your statement. Much like many other carriers, KE could have easily gotten rid of the entire expat group over the course of the summer. They have chosen not to go that route. There are many contingencies that will play out as the two carriers merge and your observation is too simplistic to be categorically true. It may go that direction but I would not underestimate the desire of KE to not have all their eggs in one basket for their pilot employment group. There are many benefits to not having their pilots speak with one unified voice and these should appear obvious to anyone who has been in the industry long enough to understand how airline management works. I expect nationalistic tendencies to be much stronger as the world emerges from the pandemic but many of the reasons KE had expats in the first place have not changed measurably.
If you have other solid data to support your conclusion, I am sure many on here would be very interested to understand your very black and white determination.
Why KE has not fired expats and continue to renew the contracts? One simple reason, it is not costing them a dime, and the work force is available in case they need pilots again. All other airlines have fired expats because it costs them money, be it minimum basic pay, accommodation allowance or education allowance. If you were at KE, you know there were zero allowances and for accommodation they used Hyatt. So, an expat sitting at home on leave without pay, is costing KE nothing. Who wouldn't want to keep a future work force if it comes at a very good price tag- FREE?

It is my opinion that if the expats were costing KE even $10 per month each KE will start firing expats..

Last edited by DesiPilot; 21st Jan 2021 at 20:54.
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