Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > South Asia and the Far East
Reload this Page >

Eva Air present working conditions

South Asia and the Far East News and views on the fast growing and changing aviation scene on the planet.

Eva Air present working conditions

Reply

Old 9th Mar 2018, 01:00
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Eva Air present working conditions

Hey guys I'm new to this forum so please take it easy on me. Couldn't find much up to date info on EVA so I started this thread.
Currently a Regional FO in the US and looking at making a move abroad. I'm ATP rated with around 2k TT , of which 1700 is turbine and 500 jet. 500 is part 121. My only type is the ERJ175 so if I want to move to Asia my options seem to be Eva, Cathay and possibly ANA once I build more time. Are there others?
I really like Taiwan and could easily live there. Hong Kong I'm not so sure....

My question is what is Eva like as an employer? They pay twice what I'm making here and I'd rather live there than in the states so it makes sense but I'm not gonna jump blindly and head first without getting some Intel. I'd eventually like to become an expat captain making decent money. Don't really care about the type of aircraft just more the quality of life. Are the schedules utter abuse and slavery or are they somewhat decent? Is management adversarial or supportive ? Thanks for any info or ideas you guys can give.
Bladecreep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th Mar 2018, 13:30
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: earth
Posts: 135
Working in Asia is not anything like working for a western carrier.

First of all, you are an Ex-Pat, so you will be treated as a second class citizen. Be prepared to be discriminated against, and in Asian culture they don't even attempt to hide the discrimination.

Training is typical asian mentality, which is punitive. Their philosophy is that if you are punished, you will learn. Training is a very negative experience. Be prepared to be belittled, yelled at and constantly threatened.

Check rides and any sim session, as well as line flights in which a management, check pilot or Instructor is on board is a pass/fail check flight which can end your job immediately.

Management including the Chief Pilot, Check Pilots and Instructors are to be treated as Gods walking the earth, and they will expect it. Get on the bad side of any of these types and expect your QOL to deteriorate quickly.

You don't bid schedules, you have a roster, which is to say your flying is assigned. Be prepared for schedules which are brutal by western standards.

Visiting Asia on vacation and actually living and working there are two different things.

My advise is to get a good job with a US major and enjoy your travel privileges and go there often, as a tourist.
Black Crow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th Mar 2018, 14:02
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Taipei
Posts: 21
No other replies are needed. Black Crow summed it up exactly how it is.
TPE Flyer is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th Mar 2018, 17:39
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Bladecreep View Post
Hey guys I'm new to this forum so please take it easy on me. Couldn't find much up to date info on EVA so I started this thread.
Currently a Regional FO in the US and looking at making a move abroad. I'm ATP rated with around 2k TT , of which 1700 is turbine and 500 jet. 500 is part 121. My only type is the ERJ175 so if I want to move to Asia my options seem to be Eva, Cathay and possibly ANA once I build more time. Are there others?
I really like Taiwan and could easily live there. Hong Kong I'm not so sure....

My question is what is Eva like as an employer? They pay twice what I'm making here and I'd rather live there than in the states so it makes sense but I'm not gonna jump blindly and head first without getting some Intel. I'd eventually like to become an expat captain making decent money. Don't really care about the type of aircraft just more the quality of life. Are the schedules utter abuse and slavery or are they somewhat decent? Is management adversarial or supportive ? Thanks for any info or ideas you guys can give.
Why would you want to leave the U.S. market in a time of the greatest amount of hiring and expansion in decades? First off, don't leave the regional market until you get a good amount of jet PIC to make yourself more marketable. If you come to Asia and don't enjoy the first outfit you land at, with your low experience, you will stagnate and bounce around to SIC jobs for a long time, especially in the Contract world, which is much of Asia's airlines.

Having almost 20 years in the Airline business and now working for one of the best contract gigs out there, I can tell you that there is NOTHING in Asia that compares to how good and easy that you will have it in the US airlines. If your main drive in life is that you only want to live somewhere in Asia, then that's a whole other conversation.

Black Crow summed it up pretty well for all the Asian countries that hire foreign pilots. If you want to advance to a career airline and have a rewarding career, best advice is to stay where your at and build PIC time and then reevaluate when you have a solid resume. Obviously, things can change in a heartbeat in the US market and the rest of the World, but you can always move to Asia if things go bad in the US. If you were get hired some where in Asia and not upgrade or have to wait to upgrade for 10-12 years, you will not be marketable with a resume full of SIC time, even if its thousands of hours in a wide body.

I would suggest reading a lot more on this board, and think real hard about leaving the US.
PalmtreePilot74 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th Mar 2018, 19:00
  #5 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by PalmtreePilot74 View Post

Having almost 20 years in the Airline business and now working for one of the best contract gigs out there, I can tell you that there is NOTHING in Asia that compares to how good and easy that you will have it in the US airlines. If your main drive in life is that you only want to live somewhere in Asia, then that's a whole other conversation.

Black Crow summed it up pretty well for all the Asian countries that hire foreign pilots. If you want to advance to a career airline and have a rewarding career, best advice is to stay where your at and build PIC time and then reevaluate when you have a solid resume. Obviously, things can change in a heartbeat in the US market and the rest of the World, but you can always move to Asia if things go bad in the US. If you were get hired some where in Asia and not upgrade or have to wait to upgrade for 10-12 years, you will not be marketable with a resume full of SIC time, even if its thousands of hours in a wide body.

I would suggest reading a lot more on this board, and think real hard about leaving the US.
Thanks for the advice. I am looking to leave the US. Just tired of trying to carve out an existence here and that region of the globe is so much more exciting. In addition to prioritizing getting PIC Time, should I consider looking in to corporate gigs ? Maybe there are companies that treat you a bit better.

Thanks again for the info.
Bladecreep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 9th Mar 2018, 19:02
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Black Crow;

I was afraid of this. The US is just not my favorite place even though the aviation market is red hot right now. I guess I should go back to the drawing board before I make a change I will come to regret.
Bladecreep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10th Mar 2018, 01:43
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: earth
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Bladecreep View Post
Thanks for the advice. I am looking to leave the US. Just tired of trying to carve out an existence here and that region of the globe is so much more exciting. In addition to prioritizing getting PIC Time, should I consider looking in to corporate gigs ? Maybe there are companies that treat you a bit better.

Thanks again for the info.
Understand, the Asians have an entire different mentality than the west. You're going to find the same culture in the corporate world there as well.

Seriously, vacationing there versus living and working there are two totally separate worlds.
Black Crow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10th Mar 2018, 02:21
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 16
Originally Posted by Bladecreep View Post
Thanks for the advice. I am looking to leave the US. Just tired of trying to carve out an existence here and that region of the globe is so much more exciting. In addition to prioritizing getting PIC Time, should I consider looking in to corporate gigs ? Maybe there are companies that treat you a bit better.

Thanks again for the info.
Carve out an existence? Okay, well it sounds like you've made up your mind that you are going to live in Asia, so you better do lots of research on where you can get in as a low time FO and eventually move to a command position. Not every Asian country will upgrade foreigners and not every airline will either.
PalmtreePilot74 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10th Mar 2018, 12:53
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by PalmtreePilot74 View Post
Carve out an existence? Okay, well it sounds like you've made up your mind that you are going to live in Asia, so you better do lots of research on where you can get in as a low time FO and eventually move to a command position. Not every Asian country will upgrade foreigners and not every airline will either.
Definitely haven't made up my mind yet but yes pursuing a self funded pilot career in the US isn't exactly a walk in the park even though seems like people on here make it to be. The wages have increased sure but not anywhere near cost of living increases in the major metropolitan places they have us domiciled. I've moved across the country, lived in several states , and slept on air mattresses for a couple years now. It'd be nice to see some improvements in my thirties and I'm trying to determine if Asia can do that for me or not.
Bladecreep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11th Mar 2018, 07:45
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 266
Honestly if your career aspirations as a pilot is to become an expat contractor, then the industry is worse than i could even imagine, or your impression of life as an expat contactor are rosier than the truth.

I suspect the latter.

Most of us wish we made better career moves than those that resulted in us being here now.
ia1166 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11th Mar 2018, 15:56
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: timbuktu
Posts: 86
Bladecreep,

Take a look at Emirates or Qatar. I know there are lots of guys complaining and most of the complaints are valid but they are light years ahead of the US regionals in more ways than one.

They have great Asian route structures that are easy to get when you bid for them and you can spend your vacation days and days off going wherever you want in Asia as its only a few hours away. If you get tired of Asia the rest of the world is also available for you.

Good luck in your decision.
TransitCheck is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11th Mar 2018, 18:37
  #12 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by TransitCheck View Post
Bladecreep,

Take a look at Emirates or Qatar. I know there are lots of guys complaining and most of the complaints are valid but they are light years ahead of the US regionals in more ways than one.

They have great Asian route structures that are easy to get when you bid for them and you can spend your vacation days and days off going wherever you want in Asia as its only a few hours away. If you get tired of Asia the rest of the world is also available for you.

Good luck in your decision.
Thank you! I will.
Bladecreep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2018, 01:24
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In a far better place
Posts: 2,479
Bladecreep... you’re about a year away from your command, that is, if you if you keep your nose clean, and do your job. You quit now... say bye bye to your seniority number. Go to Taiwan, China, or where ever... upgrade? Not a chance. A dose of reality... an expat is one whose necessity if purely temporary until such time that a local can qualify to assume the position that you’ve been hired, on a short term basis, may I add.

If you are hired... and a big IF... it will more than likely be as a relief first officer of which the time is worthless. Nothing but a bunch of alpha numerics in the old logbook.

Another consideration... lets assume you don’t like being an expat and want to return to the U.S. You’re going to have a hard time explaining why you quit a 121 job with a command in the near future to what... be a relief first officer?

Good luck.
captjns is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2018, 09:33
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Here
Posts: 899
Originally Posted by Black Crow View Post
Visiting Asia on vacation and actually living and working there are two different things.
This is 100% true.

Some (not all) places in Asia which are great for a holiday can be a absolute nightmare to work.

The problem is that many others have explained, your job in Asia is primarily to fill a seat that a local should fill somewhere in the next 5-10 years. Many people thought the Asian expat fo market would have gone long before now, but its still fairly strong, with demand for cpts higher and that is probably not gonna dry up for the next 20 years.

Don't come here expecting a command, that is number one, you may get one but you probably will not, and if you keep this thought in your mind it will be easier to deal with.

The locals at times will be jealous of where your from, why you in their country making more then them among other things yet they will not say this directly to you, they will use other tactics to belittle you. That includes the cabin crew.

If you really really must want to come to Asia as a FO, try to pick a company which has expat flight ops in there, which brings you very few options, HK, Singapore (expensive to live), Vietnam maybe?
BAe 146-100 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2018, 17:32
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 11
BAe 146-100

I guess I have no idea what the situation is actually like. All I see are the job postings and salaries and because I'm interested in the region, the girls and the flying I must be wear rose colored glasses. In the US we welcome and encourage skilled expat labor, to a large extent, so I assume it is the same abroad. I didn't think the contract was such a tenuous thing, considering the pilot shortage is real in Asia and only partly real in the US. I imagined they would be needed skilled labor for years to come in order to staff their fleets. Its a shame really if they are that far behind the curve.
Bladecreep is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2018, 21:39
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: earth
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by Bladecreep View Post
BAe 146-100

I guess I have no idea what the situation is actually like. All I see are the job postings and salaries and because I'm interested in the region, the girls and the flying I must be wear rose colored glasses. In the US we welcome and encourage skilled expat labor, to a large extent, so I assume it is the same abroad.
As has been said here, in Asia you are relevant until you're not. The asians do not welcome expat labor, they only tolerate it.

Originally Posted by Bladecreep View Post
I didn't think the contract was such a tenuous thing, considering the pilot shortage is real in Asia and only partly real in the US. I imagined they would be needed skilled labor for years to come in order to staff their fleets. Its a shame really if they are that far behind the curve.
They are still in the 1960's, early 1970's when it comes to safety, training and operations. While they will say they have a CRM program, an SMS or a just culture, it's purely talk and they don't practice it.
Black Crow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 12th Mar 2018, 21:56
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Not sure now
Posts: 533
Originally Posted by Bladecreep View Post
BAe 146-100

I guess I have no idea what the situation is actually like. All I see are the job postings and salaries and because I'm interested in the region, the girls and the flying I must be wear rose colored glasses. In the US we welcome and encourage skilled expat labor, to a large extent, so I assume it is the same abroad. I didn't think the contract was such a tenuous thing, considering the pilot shortage is real in Asia and only partly real in the US. I imagined they would be needed skilled labor for years to come in order to staff their fleets. Its a shame really if they are that far behind the curve.

Set FedEx as your goal for a Hong Kong domicile. You can have the best of both worlds for the time you are allowed to stay in HKG.
typhoonpilot is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 03:02
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: The Sea of Stars
Posts: 11
I did some research on this possibility last year. Yes, they will pay more, but you will also have significantly less time off. Plan on 8-10 days off a month. As an FO you will basically be on endless reserve/reassignment status. Even the bad US regionals have better work rules. Also, EVA has its own wholly owned regional airline, UNI Air, so there is a chance you can be assigned to the ATR, so keep that in mind.
SeaArrrrrrJay is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 03:28
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: earth
Posts: 135
Originally Posted by SeaArrrrrrJay View Post
I did some research on this possibility last year. Yes, they will pay more, but you will also have significantly less time off. Plan on 8-10 days off a month. As an FO you will basically be on endless reserve/reassignment status. Even the bad US regionals have better work rules. Also, EVA has its own wholly owned regional airline, UNI Air, so there is a chance you can be assigned to the ATR, so keep that in mind.
Yes, those 8 to 10 days off. Rarely are more than a single day at a time, and then it's a late arrival (2am) on your day off and a report time of 3am the next day. Basically your "days off" will be spent sleeping.
Black Crow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 13th Mar 2018, 05:52
  #20 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 11
Originally Posted by Black Crow View Post
Yes, those 8 to 10 days off. Rarely are more than a single day at a time, and then it's a late arrival (2am) on your day off and a report time of 3am the next day. Basically your "days off" will be spent sleeping.
Holy hell what a nightmare
Bladecreep is offline  
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service