Some concerns and questions about flying into, out of, and within India
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Some concerns and questions about flying into, out of, and within India
Hey, everyone. So, I was wondering if I could get some, well…consultation from aviation professionals on some anxiety I’ve been having about traveling to India. To give you a bit of background, I’m a 30-year-old man of Indian descent, but I was born and raised in Northern California. Recently, I’ve been trying to travel to India more often, and I try to go there about once a year to see my relatives for 1-2 weeks. I always fly into and out of Delhi (DEL), but I may also take a round trip between DEL and Lucknow (LKO) while I’m there.
Recently, my anxiety about flying to India has kind of flared up. Specifically, what’s got me kind of scared is hearing all these reports about how crappy the ATC in Indian airports is and how unprofessional the pilots on some of these Indian airlines are. I’ve read a bunch of reports about near-misses in Indian airports (such as countless TCAS situations and runway incursions), how bad the pilots on these Indian airlines can be (like the Jet Airways pilot who slapped his co-pilot), how incompetent the air traffic controllers at some of these Indian airports can be, how Indian pilots have been caught drunk on the job, how some pilots were being put in the captain’s seat with 35 minutes of experience, how many pilots there have been caught with fake licenses, how so many aircraft in local Indian airlines are essentially falling apart, how Air India was apparently putting newspapers on their cockpit windows, and so on. Specifically, I’ve been reading these things on AvHerald, PPRUNE, in the Indian media, and on Reddit. The general consensus seems to be that Indian skies are a disaster waiting to happen, so I’m wondering if it’s really a good idea for me to fly there at all.
If I go, I’ll most likely take Singapore Airlines, as they seem to have the best service, one of the best safety records, and some of the best pilots in the world. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that, right?
Even then, I have some questions and I was wondering if I could get some honest answers:
So basically, I guess I’m just wondering what safeguards are there to protect a plane piloted by a competent pilot (with Singapore, Emirates, Lufthansa, etc.), but working in airspace with pilots and ATC who don’t have the best reputation. In order to avoid a mid-air collision, does everyone involved have to be on top of their game?
I’m also wondering how “fault-tolerant” TCAS is. Let’s say TCAS gives its advisories to the various pilots, but for some reason, at least one doesn’t follow it. Or let’s say one of them accidentally does the opposite. How likely is such a scenario, and would TCAS then be able to correct for the mistakes made by those pilots?
On a side note, do newer aircraft have “better” TCAS? For example, does an A380 have a better TCAS system than, say, a 15-year-old 737
Recently, my anxiety about flying to India has kind of flared up. Specifically, what’s got me kind of scared is hearing all these reports about how crappy the ATC in Indian airports is and how unprofessional the pilots on some of these Indian airlines are. I’ve read a bunch of reports about near-misses in Indian airports (such as countless TCAS situations and runway incursions), how bad the pilots on these Indian airlines can be (like the Jet Airways pilot who slapped his co-pilot), how incompetent the air traffic controllers at some of these Indian airports can be, how Indian pilots have been caught drunk on the job, how some pilots were being put in the captain’s seat with 35 minutes of experience, how many pilots there have been caught with fake licenses, how so many aircraft in local Indian airlines are essentially falling apart, how Air India was apparently putting newspapers on their cockpit windows, and so on. Specifically, I’ve been reading these things on AvHerald, PPRUNE, in the Indian media, and on Reddit. The general consensus seems to be that Indian skies are a disaster waiting to happen, so I’m wondering if it’s really a good idea for me to fly there at all.
If I go, I’ll most likely take Singapore Airlines, as they seem to have the best service, one of the best safety records, and some of the best pilots in the world. I don’t think anyone would disagree with that, right?
Even then, I have some questions and I was wondering if I could get some honest answers:
• Are mid-air near misses and TCAS scenarios more common during a certain time of day? I’ve heard a few differing opinions. For example, I’ve heard that they’re more likely during the daytime because aircraft lights aren’t as visible. However, I’ve also heard that they’re more likely at night because aircraft lights can sometimes be indistinguishable from the airport lights on the ground. Similarly, are they more common during a certain time of year?
• I’ve heard of plenty of scenarios in which TCAS resolves a situation with two aircraft. How does TCAS work if there are more than two aircraft in proximity to each other? How often does such a scenario arise, and how likely is it?
• Let’s say you’ve got two aircraft in a TCAS scenario and TCAS gives its advisories to both aircraft. And let’s say that one of them ignores the advisory and just keeps going on its merry way. If the other aircraft follows the advisory, would that be enough to avert disaster?
• How likely is it that a pilot, maybe a tired or panicked one, would “zig” when told to “zag". In other words, let’s say TCAS tells a pilot to climb. How likely is it that, in such an instance, a pilot would accidentally descend instead? I mean, I’ve been in scenarios where, while driving, I’ve accidentally hit the accelerator when a light that’s not mine turns green. And people sometimes accidentally hit the accelerator instead of braking at a red light. Would it be safer to assume that a pilot with Singapore (or any other airline with reputable pilots) would be better equipped to handle such a situation than a pilot with a less reputable airline?
• In such a situation, where one pilot “zigs” when told to “zag”, how would the pilot of the other aircraft respond? Is there anything that pilot can do to avert disaster?
• We hear a lot about how Indian airspace is a disaster waiting to happen, how incompetent their pilots/ATC are, etc. How would you say Indian airspace, aviation, pilots, ATC, etc. are compared to those in the US, Europe, China, Mexico, etc.?
Obviously I have to take a plane to get into India, so I’m thinking I can at least minimize my risk by flying on a reputable carrier. But what I’m worried about is that, even if I’m on a Singapore Airlines flight, some idiot flying an IndiGo or Air India flight (with newspapers on its cockpit windows) is going to crash into my plane. As I said, I was thinking of flying between Delhi and Lucknow as well, but I think I’d rather take a train than risk it with one of those Indian carriers.• I’ve heard of plenty of scenarios in which TCAS resolves a situation with two aircraft. How does TCAS work if there are more than two aircraft in proximity to each other? How often does such a scenario arise, and how likely is it?
• Let’s say you’ve got two aircraft in a TCAS scenario and TCAS gives its advisories to both aircraft. And let’s say that one of them ignores the advisory and just keeps going on its merry way. If the other aircraft follows the advisory, would that be enough to avert disaster?
• How likely is it that a pilot, maybe a tired or panicked one, would “zig” when told to “zag". In other words, let’s say TCAS tells a pilot to climb. How likely is it that, in such an instance, a pilot would accidentally descend instead? I mean, I’ve been in scenarios where, while driving, I’ve accidentally hit the accelerator when a light that’s not mine turns green. And people sometimes accidentally hit the accelerator instead of braking at a red light. Would it be safer to assume that a pilot with Singapore (or any other airline with reputable pilots) would be better equipped to handle such a situation than a pilot with a less reputable airline?
• In such a situation, where one pilot “zigs” when told to “zag”, how would the pilot of the other aircraft respond? Is there anything that pilot can do to avert disaster?
• We hear a lot about how Indian airspace is a disaster waiting to happen, how incompetent their pilots/ATC are, etc. How would you say Indian airspace, aviation, pilots, ATC, etc. are compared to those in the US, Europe, China, Mexico, etc.?
So basically, I guess I’m just wondering what safeguards are there to protect a plane piloted by a competent pilot (with Singapore, Emirates, Lufthansa, etc.), but working in airspace with pilots and ATC who don’t have the best reputation. In order to avoid a mid-air collision, does everyone involved have to be on top of their game?
I’m also wondering how “fault-tolerant” TCAS is. Let’s say TCAS gives its advisories to the various pilots, but for some reason, at least one doesn’t follow it. Or let’s say one of them accidentally does the opposite. How likely is such a scenario, and would TCAS then be able to correct for the mistakes made by those pilots?
On a side note, do newer aircraft have “better” TCAS? For example, does an A380 have a better TCAS system than, say, a 15-year-old 737
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Dude, you really need to chill, and I mean it respectfully. Yeah, some of the worst individuals I've met in my career where Indians. And so were the best ones. And if I stop to think of it, that ratio is still there when I recall other nationalities. And when I consider it even further, I can extend that consideration to many other people I've met out of my aviation career. It happens that it is easy to generalize when your group study narrows to a few thousand and your research is limited to incident reports (no institution makes a congratulatory report per se, ever) and gossip/back stabbing forums. I'm a Spaniard. I like siesta. Therefore, I sleep in the flightdeck. You are Indian. Indians are cheap, so I'm so not meeting you for a coffee regardless of you been raised in N. Cali. If it were that easy insurance companies would be having a go at the M3 and it happens that most of the pilot force there are Indians that have been trained by the airlines in India that you mention in your post. And the safety record in the Middle East is one of the best in the world... You are ok, way more than fine, by flying indian carriers. Just don't assume a point of view without any technical knowledge to apply your own criteria. As in going to a hospital and trying to choose your surgeon based on how they talk.
The TCAS has been safely guiding pilots through congested airspaces for decades. Only one accident happened a decade ago or so and that has been the exception more than the rule.
The TCAS has been safely guiding pilots through congested airspaces for decades. Only one accident happened a decade ago or so and that has been the exception more than the rule.
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Dude please do everyone in india a big favor !! Please do not leave home , because its guys like you who have no idea about aviation but can talk all the rubbish in the world . No matter how small the aviation market is and how badly it being run by the indians planes are not falling off the sky . Most of it iss ad media representation who low things out of proportion . by the way mr california , have you conveniently forgotten that the biggest aviation disaster was just seconds away from happening in sfo !!!!! Don't think any indian was involved in that , have people stopped flying air canada no they haven't and no one will ....
so as i said please do everyone a favor and do not just do not leave your home . A guy like you doesn't even desrve to be on an indian tuktuk forget an airplane . # californiandesimoron
so as i said please do everyone a favor and do not just do not leave your home . A guy like you doesn't even desrve to be on an indian tuktuk forget an airplane . # californiandesimoron
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My Inference
Fact: Considering all aspects, you've got a higher chance of risking your life on the Indian roads/rails than the skies.
Probability: There are idiots in every industry and the next one might be a scientist from NASA who could be your nemesis.
Solution: For someone so paranoid like you, right under the bed would be the safest place! But still, heard of the king and the apple?
PS: I am amused that you've not done your research on the Indian Railways
Probability: There are idiots in every industry and the next one might be a scientist from NASA who could be your nemesis.
Solution: For someone so paranoid like you, right under the bed would be the safest place! But still, heard of the king and the apple?
PS: I am amused that you've not done your research on the Indian Railways
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Aeroméxico plane nearly lands on wrong runway in third close call for SFO
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1] Indian ATC is stupidly cautious, they irritate you with their conservative decisions but you don't feel rushed like you would at a major US airport. US airports of course rush you but are very efficient.
2]TCAS is a fantastic tool. There are numerous TCAS EVENTS at MAJOR US airports daily . Very few in India due to point no1.
3] Those 35 min pilots were caught and dealt with.
4] More pilots are caught BA positive in India because all flight crews operating flights which are originating in India have to do BAs[all crew, including cabin crew]. In other countries, the testing is random so fewer are caught.
5] The Slapping pilots were fired. Case closed.
So you just need to fix your anxiety, which is being fueled by reading up such forums.
If help is needed , send a pm and lets see what we can do for you.
2]TCAS is a fantastic tool. There are numerous TCAS EVENTS at MAJOR US airports daily . Very few in India due to point no1.
3] Those 35 min pilots were caught and dealt with.
4] More pilots are caught BA positive in India because all flight crews operating flights which are originating in India have to do BAs[all crew, including cabin crew]. In other countries, the testing is random so fewer are caught.
5] The Slapping pilots were fired. Case closed.
So you just need to fix your anxiety, which is being fueled by reading up such forums.
If help is needed , send a pm and lets see what we can do for you.
Last edited by willfly380; 14th Jan 2018 at 08:51.
