7 approaches , 600lbs fuel left in a 737 of Jet airways in almost VFR

[silverhawk]

Jet Airways................

Why am I not surprised? My first line training sector was out of Delhi. LTC arrives late, rushes to the aircraft, works both pushback and ground on VHF1, and gets annoyed when I tell him after pushback to slow down and repeat all checklists from preflight.

He was astounded that anyone would question his authority. Idiot. I was the Captain. He was merely the line trainer. He was a local. I was merely an expat.

Similar tale with a line check out of Chennai. Indian aviation and the caste system are intertwined. Whole mentality needs changing before real advances can be made.

Anytime Goyal wants to send my bonus payment is fine by me.

[Boeing7xx]

soft target

as always, pilots are the soft targets whenever something like this happens. there seems to be no accountability on flight safety who continued to advise that approach in the said airport should be continued and diversion avoided or despatch who did not report the correct weather and neither was the acars updated. the assumption here is that the pilots acted solely at their own discretion, which is incorrect. They were making decisions based on inputs given to them, garbage in-garbage out. Do not condone what the pilots did, but it is a larger base that needs to take the blame, not just the pilots.

[itsbrokenagain]

But aren't the Pilots flying this machine this day holding the ultimate responsibility... I don't know how you can blame people on the ground, outside of the cockpit for the errors and judgement calls of the crew and near fatal accident that happened in all seriousness.

[silverhawk]

Boeing 7xx, congratulations for confirming the impression the civilised world has concerning Indian aviation.

I hope, for the sake of the travelling public, your licence is restricted to tuk-tuks.

[Boeing7xx]

thank you

silverhawk, thankfully there are more capable people judging my ability to hold the license than mob justice that you seem to want to dish out.

My point remains that pilots do not operate in isolation, there's a system, SOP, minima amongst other things which you'd be aware of unless you're flying the bush.

Again, I do not condone the actions of the crew, but i think it is time to take a relook at the whole system and circumstances that lead to such situations. treat the disease not the symptom.

[pilotbaba]

@ Boeing7xx

I understand what you mean by external pressures like DGCA, Flt safety dept, Weather reporting etc etc..

But I am still trying my level best to understand how any of these could be a factor in decision making in any case in general & in this case in particular.

Weather was not bad at all, with broken & scattered layers, calm winds, no CB & TS reported, no Wind Shear, 11000 ft runway..

They make 1st approach, things don't go well, stuff happens, they get unstable, go around, that's normal.

But Before anyone goes for a 2nd shot, they need to take a hard look why they went around the 1st time..

Was it weather or was it unstable approach..??
Did they see the runway at MDA/ DA ??
Were they just unstable..??
Were the winds not what was being reported..??
Did they get any windshear or loss of airspeed..??

They come back for 2nd shot & go around 2nd time again for SOME reason...

WHY even attempt a 3rd approach at that point....?????

Then they HOLD for 30 mins... WHY....????

Then proceed to alternate...

Then 3 more approaches at the alternate....

Tell me which training, which culture, which SOP, which common sense teaches that...???

May be they were having a mechanical issue & they try to trouble shoot the problem. Were they dealing with multiple issues..??

If the crew was dealing with multiple failures, then those guys are Heroes But I don't see anywhere they declared emergency due to mechanical issues..

Did the company or dispatch push them to NOT divert & try one more time..??
Very unlikely but if that was the case, then where was PIC authority..??

I would really like to know what was happening in the flight deck. We all would like to know..

But the fact is TRUTH will most likely NEVER come out..

Pilots will never speak the truth, they know DGCA will interpret the truth in different way. They will cover their back..
The company doesn't care about the crew, they care about the company.. Maintenance will try to protect themselves.

Only hope is CVR & FDR data, that will give some insight to what was actually happening on that day.
Now I don't know that in India, if they make the CVR transcripts available to the public or not..

NTSB usually gives preliminary findings about what happened so others can learn from the incident.

But DGCA will sit on the facts for years, during which, many deals will be made on what goes on the report..
The DGCA report will be most likely be hushed UP, depending on who's got how much PULL, the inquiry can be anything from an eye wash to penalizing the crew..

[masalama]

pilotbaba

finally a balanced and sensible post on this pilotbaba.
There are some glaring in this incident and just hope that we get to read an unbiased report and learn from it .
The media reports on aviation incidents in India are comical and usually filled with errors , look at this report to see the awareness among our media and travelling public
http://http://zeenews.india.com/news...s_1650558.html

A vast majority of the people I know at 9W are good operators and I wouldn't brush the whole community as being sub standard or dangerous "tuk tuk" pilots as one of our professional friends had alluded to in a previous post.

Fly safe all and masalama

[hoopdreams]

Originally Posted by Jet Man

I'd be getting very nervous with less than 1000kg fuel.

I'd be getting very nervous below 2000kg if my options started disappearing.

[silverhawk]

I only alluded to one poster, Boeing 7xx, to being best suited to tuk-tuks after his painfully naive attempt to avert blame from this crew.
Many of my friends and colleagues at 9W were perfectly competent, well trained and trusted.
The culture in Indian aviation in general is far below the standard expected in the First World. Why else would this crew behave in such a way?
I hope that explains my stance on this event.
Now if Gopal wants to pay my bonus?................

[DELHIsahilROOMS]

pilot decision is final, in air

a pilot is the best person to decide at that moment. safety is paramount and every approach is an attempt. do all pilots land every time perfectly as per text books?
have faith in others . investigation can get the facts.