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DGCA inviting comments for Psychological testing of Pilots

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DGCA inviting comments for Psychological testing of Pilots

Old 18th Jul 2015, 11:17
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DGCA inviting comments for Psychological testing of Pilots

The DGCA has issued a draft notice for inviting comments for mandatory psychological/psychometric testing of pilots at various stages of one's career

Please read and send in your comments by 3rd August 2015

Please address comments to:
Lalit Gupta,
Joint Director General, Office of the Director General of Civil Aviation, Opp. Safdarjung Airport, Aurobindo Marg, New Delhi 110 003.

Email: [email protected]

http://dgca.nic.in/reports/REPORT_PS...GHT%20CREW.pdf
cyrilroy21 is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2015, 01:38
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Just give us nice & regular increments and we shall be happy
bad_attitude is offline  
Old 22nd Jul 2015, 02:03
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What about Psychometry of the DGCA officials !!! guess they badly need it first .
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Old 23rd Jul 2015, 09:21
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rdr
 
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I may be generalising, but there is a huge swathe of DGCA employees who do not need psychological checking, but need to be locked away, and the key thrown out.
I have yet to see a more dysfunctional, corrupt, uneducated group of people being put in charge of a nations vital resource.
This has easily transformed into a countries non performing sector, where the national carrier of India is widely known to be Emirates.
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 04:14
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rdr well said . A bunch of lunatics who have no idea whats going on in aviation and its because of these nerds that indian pilots are put under pressure and unnecessary stress !

The second i started reading that recommendation , i knew these guys have got it all wrong again , the entire policy is based on one single german guy trying to end his life !! and in a country like India the more test you want to keep it will only flourish the corruption business .
What if a senior Air india or Jet capt on a 777 fails one of these psychometric tests , you think he will be fired ...
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Old 24th Jul 2015, 20:46
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hey

guys not sure how this sounds but psychology is itself quite subjective for example the pilot is scheduled to fly at 0800 am and gets his briefing by 07:20 and then goes to the psychologist finishes with his psychometric test but later on en route the guy crashes , so now who's to be blamed ? its not a fool proof cover going for a psychometric test, it doesn't eliminate the human error.
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Old 25th Jul 2015, 04:49
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Perfect... just perfect... another example of the lunatics running the asylum.


Calling these miscreants idiots is an insult to those who truly are idiots.


My question to the DGCA is who is going to administer these tests to the current post holders with guaranty of no bribes nor graft so they can hold their positions. What about them?
captjns is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2015, 17:46
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I loved this line... as if the IAF is trained to be a 'competent' authority on this matter....
Pilots showing psychological abrasions may be referred to AFCME, New Delhi/IAM Bangalore for further evaluation before release.
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Old 28th Jul 2015, 07:36
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So easy to point the finger on the pilot.

Let's start by getting from our house to the airport on time and with our BP's in check.

Transport issues, missing roads, lack of infrastructure at the airports long lines at security and then you have a lovely understanding regulator which issues show cause notices for reaching the aircraft 5 mins late?

What a joke.
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Old 28th Jul 2015, 16:45
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What are you saying... a law that says you must give 6 months notice to your airline isnt over regulating at all for a democratic country...

(heck I dont think even China has a 6 month notice law!!)
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Old 31st Jul 2015, 14:58
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When Ghandi made his peaceful move against the Britts, the military in India was scavenging the few bungalows they use to this day to pretend running a DGCA. (Deplorable)
Psicometric tests? invitations? I rather have the whole Indian military start with the heir own "Namaste" that president Modi displays worldwide, as no foreign Captain who has worked in India has ever comulged with such mentality of idiots designing rules that only affect the expansion of the Indian carriers, and the progress of young generations who have awaken interest to fly in such complicated environment.

Good luck with your contributions, the present INDIAN DGCA is nothing but a pretense to create more trouble to ALL pilots who desire to fly in a country in a state of misery, not because of poverty, but due to massive corruption.
IZAD is offline  
Old 3rd Aug 2015, 10:56
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Well let's just say if dgca has to make a hard and fast rule on this, what kind of ground work has been done as in where is our country statistics on the number of accidents happened over the last 5 years and the reason involved was psychometric problem, because if we do that survey and just not get carried away by the German crash we are pretty good without it, it would be hard to get even 20% of the total accidents involving psychological problem here in India and since dgca investigates every enquiry they should be good at this I hope by doing a survey making a statistical report.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 13:12
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Unfortunately, DGCA's frame of reference is the Airindia lot. Whether justified or not, AI pilots don't evoke much sympathy due to their propensity to take the millitant union route in any conflict.
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Old 3rd Aug 2015, 13:17
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This is the copy of the UPWA's reply to the DGCA report

To
Shri Lalit Gupta
Jt. Director General

O/o DGCA
Opp Safdarjung Airport
New Delhi 110003

2nd August 2015

Respected Sir ,
After having read the " REPORT OF THE GROUP TO RECOMMEND POLICY ON MANNING OF COCKPIT AND MEDICAL/PSYCHOMETRIC TEST FOR FLIGHT CREW " we have the following comments to make on the report .

We understand that this report arises out of the need to prevent a crash similar to the German Wings flight 4U9525.

We request the DGCA to please look into these comments urgently

1. We appreciate the DGCA policy on cockpit manning and have no further suggestions to make on the same.

2. The terms Psychometric Analysis / Test , Psychology and Psychiatry have not been defined in the report . There seems to be utter confusion as the report treats all three terms as one and the same and keeps interchanging them through out the report.

3. In order to become a Psychiatrist one needs to study and obtain an MBBS degree followed by an M.D in Psychiatry.

A Psychologist is someone who has studied the subject of psychology at the Bachelor / Masters degree level.

4. The fundamental difference between a Psychiatrist and Psychologist is that a Psychiatrist can prescribe medication while a Psychologist on the other hand cannot do the same.

5. As far as our understanding goes Psychometric Analysis / Tests are nothing more than JOB APTITUDE tests used to PREDICT whether a particular candidate is ideal for a particular position.

The ideal candidate is based on PRECONCEIVED NOTIONS and varies from company to company even for exactly the same kind of job.
Psychometric tests are used by a wide variety of companies all over the globe for variety of professions.

It is nothing more than a predictability / probability indicator and has no guaranteed accuracy whatsoever.

Psychometric tests suffer from the VICE of ARBITRARINESS as candidates receive no feedback / explanation or opportunity to explain themselves the results of the psychometric test

They have no clue what constitutes a pass or a fail or what they can do to improve themselves.
This was observed by us during the Air India recruitment for A320 type rated pilots.

I would like to remind you that some pilots rejected by Air India have been offered jobs at other airlines flying the exact same kind of airplane.

When compared to normal medical tests candidates are told whats wrong with them and what they can do to cure or improve their medical condition if a cure exists.

However psychometric tests do not offer a chance for review.

6. The report has not justified as to why Psychometric Testing should be made mandatory for pilots despite the report very clearly pointing out that no other Civil Aviation Authority in the world has the recommended the same for its pilots.

It has not quoted any sources which say that psychometric testing would prevent an accident similar to the German Wings crash.

It has however used the German Wings crash as an excuse for making psychometric testing mandatory.

7. Even the EASA task force setup in the wake of the German Wings crash has recommended Psychological tests and NOT Psychometric Tests.
http://ec.europa.eu/…/germanwings-ta...inal-report.p…

8. We would like to inform you that the pilot involved in the German Wings crash successfully cleared all the necessary psychometric tests needed to join as a cadet pilot known as the DLR Test.

Despite passing the psychometric exam the FAA had initially denied him a medical certificate as he had declared suffering from depression on his medical application and had taken medication for the same.

It was only after the FAA obtained a letter from the pilots doctor saying that he is cured and no longer on medication that the FAA issued a medical.

This above mentioned point is the biggest and most GLARING example that is available in the Aviation world that psychometric tests cannot test / predict the Mental Health of a Pilot.

It was only on the own admission of the pilot that the aviation authority was even aware ofa mental health disorder that needed medication.

9. We are quite perplexed as to why the DGCA would suggest a JOB APTITUDE test in place of a medical test for picking up mental health issues .

This very important in light of the report 3.1 saying
" It may be seen that the medical standards of flight crew mandated by DGCA are in line with international best practices and do not require any amendment " ( copy pasted from the report )

Recommendation 4.2
" There is no need to amend CAR Section 7, Series C, Part I on “Medical Requirements and Examination for Flight Crew Licences” as it is in line with ICAO Annex 1 requirements " ( copy pasted from the report )

On page 8 of the report the DGCA has shown a sample psychometric test via a) , b) and c) .

However nowhere in the example does it indicate that these tests are designed to detect issues of mental health.

Item c) clearly states that its a PILOT APTITUDE TEST.

These tests would not indicate someone suffered from depression or other mental health disorders unless expressed explicitly.

The present DGCA medical standards nor the medical standards anywhere in the globe have seem to have any sort of procedure to potentially identify someone with mental health disorder UNLESS admitted to by the pilot.

A pilot is not subjected to a Psychiatric assessment during the initial and renewal medicals.

Then why does the report blindly declare that nothing needs to be done to the medical standards in dealing with what is essentially a medical problem ?

10 . The German Wings crash is the best example to point out the failure of Psychometric tests in picking out mental health disorders.

It would be extremely unwise on the DGCA's part as safety regulator to suggest Psychometric Test which has proven itself to be a known failure as a some sort of solution in predicting one's mental health.

11. We do not agree with recommendation 4.3 a) , 4.3 b) , 4.3 c) as these have nothing to do mental health issues but more based on what an individual perceives to be an IDEAL PILOT or IDEAL LEADER . These notions are based on ones background and varies from individual to individual.

The DGCA should respect the right to recruit / admit individuals as per the needs of a particular organisation and not interfere in their recruitment methods.

Since mental health issues are medical problems then should it not be detected by the DGCA when it conducts class 1 medical tests ?
Are not medical tests the responsibility of the DGCA ?

12. I recommend the DGCA to wait for the final German Wings crash report and observe the policies by other Aviation Authorities including ICAO in dealing with mental health issues .

13. The DGCA should also hold a public hearing in this regard and give an opportunity to debate these issues with the people that are most affected by the implementations of this report i.e Pilots of India.

I sincerely hope that the DGCA listens earnestly to the above recommendations at the earliest.

Yours Sincerely

Unemployed Pilots Welfare Association

Copy of this email to

Smt M Sathiyavathy - Director General ( DGCA )

Shri Rajiv Nayan Choubey - Secretary ( MoCA )

Dr. Mahesh Shamra - Hon'ble MoS ( MoCA )

Shri Ashok Gajapati Raju - Hon'ble Minister ( MoCA )
cyrilroy21 is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2015, 12:02
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Thumbs up

Great information, veracity galore. Well done chaps, all we need now is to get you a job, preferably away from India.
Godspeed!
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Old 8th Aug 2015, 10:06
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Good job guys, you should not allow these so called experts - psychologists with aviation background to ruin your careers. My sympathies with those poor 40 odd youngsters who were rejected on psychological grounds by Air India. It would be interesting to know how many who cleared psychological tests had their parents working for Air India. I am sure that none of the pilots rejected had any relative working for Air India. I hope one of these affected pilots obtain these details using RTI and prove the latest "Murphy's law of aviation jobs" that guys with no connections are more likely to be psychologically unfit, right.
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