China Southern wannabes
Join Date: Apr 2016
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Its good to hear stories like that from China, because with that attitude and culture, they will never become an economic threat to us / in aviation.
Regards from Europe and from an airline where "just culture" is implemented and lived. Noone will telephone you because you were established at 930feet instead of 1000ft, or because you went a little fast 36kts taxiing. They know you have reasons.
Regards from Europe and from an airline where "just culture" is implemented and lived. Noone will telephone you because you were established at 930feet instead of 1000ft, or because you went a little fast 36kts taxiing. They know you have reasons.
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: China
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Brilliant update.........all foreign pilots are being "invited"/obligated to attend a private meeting with management to review their whole QAR history, so that every QAR event, no matter how small, can be discussed on a one to one basis......
Just in case you forgot you are living in an Orwellian nightmare.....
Just in case you forgot you are living in an Orwellian nightmare.....
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Gardening
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Hamil,
That would be known as 'Crew task sharing.'
From what I understand, this was a 20hour duty through the night with 2 take offs and 2 landings.
If both Captains have the relevant qualifications for that 'area' then why would you not split the flying between the 2 of you. 1 take off and 1 landing each makes much more sense from a fatigue management point of view.
Unless of course you are a control freak who has to do everything yourself.........
Cheers,
That would be known as 'Crew task sharing.'
From what I understand, this was a 20hour duty through the night with 2 take offs and 2 landings.
If both Captains have the relevant qualifications for that 'area' then why would you not split the flying between the 2 of you. 1 take off and 1 landing each makes much more sense from a fatigue management point of view.
Unless of course you are a control freak who has to do everything yourself.........
Cheers,
Join Date: May 2008
Location: italy
Age: 62
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CSA currency /banking and ticketing
I'm asking to the insiders the following:
if wage is "parked" on Chinese Bank account and if any limitation applies for
bank swifts abroad or if it's directly sent to personal account;
for CAN based Crews to commute abroad what kind of ticketing is provided
(i.e. GD travel , coach w. auto upgrade , upgrade by PIC , Purser ,station manager etc.)
thanks a lot for any help/ clarification. VA
if wage is "parked" on Chinese Bank account and if any limitation applies for
bank swifts abroad or if it's directly sent to personal account;
for CAN based Crews to commute abroad what kind of ticketing is provided
(i.e. GD travel , coach w. auto upgrade , upgrade by PIC , Purser ,station manager etc.)
thanks a lot for any help/ clarification. VA
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: USA
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I would like to know anything about this one as well. If any american there could help please
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Sandpit
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Tonisb82,
Here are some recent updates for you of life on the 777. All fact no fiction!
One foreign pilot made a 1.8G landing after a 20hr delayed duty through the middle of the night. 1.8G, no big deal right?
Well the whole crew got called in for a 'technical briefing' to explain what happened.
The PIC who was on the jumpseat for landing got asked why he didn't do something to stop this 'heavy' landing. What is he supposed to do. Scream from the JS and scare the living daylights out of the landing pilot.
The outcome for the landing pilot after his interrogation.......his landings are now being monitored by the QAR for the next 3 months!!! If he makes another over 1.7G in that time then he will be called back in for 're-training' sectors and another LCK or..........
Obviously it is much safer to land 1000M down the runway as long as its smooth 😫😫
Another guy on a busy approach got the landing flap in position at 1400'. Rule for the 777 is 1500'. He decided was safer to land rather than go around as airport was very busy with aircraft all over the place and a GA would have caused mayhem.
How dare you think as a Captain sir. Result- demoted from PIC.
These are real events. Im not saying more than that as each individual can decide for themselves if that is the kind of environment you want to work in. Each to their own.
Cheers all,
Here are some recent updates for you of life on the 777. All fact no fiction!
One foreign pilot made a 1.8G landing after a 20hr delayed duty through the middle of the night. 1.8G, no big deal right?
Well the whole crew got called in for a 'technical briefing' to explain what happened.
The PIC who was on the jumpseat for landing got asked why he didn't do something to stop this 'heavy' landing. What is he supposed to do. Scream from the JS and scare the living daylights out of the landing pilot.
The outcome for the landing pilot after his interrogation.......his landings are now being monitored by the QAR for the next 3 months!!! If he makes another over 1.7G in that time then he will be called back in for 're-training' sectors and another LCK or..........
Obviously it is much safer to land 1000M down the runway as long as its smooth 😫😫
Another guy on a busy approach got the landing flap in position at 1400'. Rule for the 777 is 1500'. He decided was safer to land rather than go around as airport was very busy with aircraft all over the place and a GA would have caused mayhem.
How dare you think as a Captain sir. Result- demoted from PIC.
These are real events. Im not saying more than that as each individual can decide for themselves if that is the kind of environment you want to work in. Each to their own.
Cheers all,
My first post here. Are there any CSA driver willing to share even via PM their month ON month OFF rosters?
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Just to keep all the information(good and bad) coming for potential new joiners..........
A couple of months ago, a very close family member of a foreign pilot was taken ill. He requested time off to be there as his home country was far away from China. This was granted so off he went.
Subsequently incredibly sadly the family member passed away. The pilot stayed with his family to grieve and spent totally 1 month away from flying.
When he returned, he was told by his agent that he will not be paid for this month as he didn't fly. Not really surprising I guess as we are contractors.
Now he has just been informed though that CSA will be deducting and EXTRA 600$ a day for the 26 days he was away from flying. This is just so immoral it is really unbelievable!!!!
So the passing of a close family member will cost this pilot 35600$!!!!!!
This is all true folks no word of a lie.
Oh how we wish we knew they would interpret the contract this bizarre way before signing!!!!
What looks like a good salary will soon not be so when you step on a CSA landmine as we eventually all do.........
Cheers,
A couple of months ago, a very close family member of a foreign pilot was taken ill. He requested time off to be there as his home country was far away from China. This was granted so off he went.
Subsequently incredibly sadly the family member passed away. The pilot stayed with his family to grieve and spent totally 1 month away from flying.
When he returned, he was told by his agent that he will not be paid for this month as he didn't fly. Not really surprising I guess as we are contractors.
Now he has just been informed though that CSA will be deducting and EXTRA 600$ a day for the 26 days he was away from flying. This is just so immoral it is really unbelievable!!!!
So the passing of a close family member will cost this pilot 35600$!!!!!!
This is all true folks no word of a lie.
Oh how we wish we knew they would interpret the contract this bizarre way before signing!!!!
What looks like a good salary will soon not be so when you step on a CSA landmine as we eventually all do.........
Cheers,
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Yes that is a very good question Don2..........
Unfortunately there are very very few agents in China that actually care about their pilots once they are cashing the monthly fee paid by the airline for having you on contract. Sad but true.
In this case the pilots agent is about as useful as a chocolate fire guard so probably he will get absolutely no support from them what so ever and will be left to fight this on his own.
Pleasant isn't it..........
Join Date: Oct 2007
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The same thing can be easily resolved for one or impossible to sort out for another one: the outcome almost never depends from written stuff, but most often from talks and attitudes and connections.
I work from a Chinese airline coming from another one: I was the only one successful in doing so, with the proper paper, in just a little bit less than 2 months : guess why?
Joe
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Good move! Actually they invented mafia, so better to find some sponsor. Anyway, many people coming here make the mistake not to read the proposed contract in advance : the contract is not only the spreadsheet with the "potential" earning, but all the rules that condition the individual life.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Just to keep all the onlookers in the know on what’s happening at CSA to help you make an informed decision.
Recently a foreign pilot was flying China-Europe and was in Minsk control. There was a shift change for the FO’s while the crew got cleared direct. As the FO change was happening the foreign pilot executed the ‘direct to’ by himself.
Later Minsk control asked where they were flying to. They checked and realised they had executed the wrong direct to so were slightly off route. Those who have flown this route will know that it’s pretty much a straight line anyway. Minsk controller was not in the slightest bit bothered and said not to worry. FO’s and the other Capt had other ideas though. They decided that they would ‘report themselves’ when they landed DESPITE the controller saying that for him was no problem at all.
The last I heard they were just 3nm off route so no big deal.
Crew were immediately grounded ‘pending investigation.’
Decision now is 6 months grounding for the crew in the office with NO PAY!!!! Just to rub salt in the wounds, the foreign pilot involved is EU based and is supposed to serve this punishment in Guangzhou despite having a young family in Europe. Yeah right........
Anyway just wanted to keep the facts coming for all the onlookers here. These kind of things are good to know before making any career decisions. Boy I wish I had known all this beforehand......
These kind of ‘non events’ are so easy on a red eye flight full of fatigue that they could happen to absolutely anybody.
Cheers,
Recently a foreign pilot was flying China-Europe and was in Minsk control. There was a shift change for the FO’s while the crew got cleared direct. As the FO change was happening the foreign pilot executed the ‘direct to’ by himself.
Later Minsk control asked where they were flying to. They checked and realised they had executed the wrong direct to so were slightly off route. Those who have flown this route will know that it’s pretty much a straight line anyway. Minsk controller was not in the slightest bit bothered and said not to worry. FO’s and the other Capt had other ideas though. They decided that they would ‘report themselves’ when they landed DESPITE the controller saying that for him was no problem at all.
The last I heard they were just 3nm off route so no big deal.
Crew were immediately grounded ‘pending investigation.’
Decision now is 6 months grounding for the crew in the office with NO PAY!!!! Just to rub salt in the wounds, the foreign pilot involved is EU based and is supposed to serve this punishment in Guangzhou despite having a young family in Europe. Yeah right........
Anyway just wanted to keep the facts coming for all the onlookers here. These kind of things are good to know before making any career decisions. Boy I wish I had known all this beforehand......
These kind of ‘non events’ are so easy on a red eye flight full of fatigue that they could happen to absolutely anybody.
Cheers,
Join Date: Sep 2009
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Just to keep all the onlookers in the know on what’s happening at CSA to help you make an informed decision.
Recently a foreign pilot was flying China-Europe and was in Minsk control. There was a shift change for the FO’s while the crew got cleared direct. As the FO change was happening the foreign pilot executed the ‘direct to’ by himself.
Later Minsk control asked where they were flying to. They checked and realised they had executed the wrong direct to so were slightly off route. Those who have flown this route will know that it’s pretty much a straight line anyway. Minsk controller was not in the slightest bit bothered and said not to worry. FO’s and the other Capt had other ideas though. They decided that they would ‘report themselves’ when they landed DESPITE the controller saying that for him was no problem at all.
The last I heard they were just 3nm off route so no big deal.
Crew were immediately grounded ‘pending investigation.’
Decision now is 6 months grounding for the crew in the office with NO PAY!!!! Just to rub salt in the wounds, the foreign pilot involved is EU based and is supposed to serve this punishment in Guangzhou despite having a young family in Europe. Yeah right........
Anyway just wanted to keep the facts coming for all the onlookers here. These kind of things are good to know before making any career decisions. Boy I wish I had known all this beforehand......
These kind of ‘non events’ are so easy on a red eye flight full of fatigue that they could happen to absolutely anybody.
Cheers,
Recently a foreign pilot was flying China-Europe and was in Minsk control. There was a shift change for the FO’s while the crew got cleared direct. As the FO change was happening the foreign pilot executed the ‘direct to’ by himself.
Later Minsk control asked where they were flying to. They checked and realised they had executed the wrong direct to so were slightly off route. Those who have flown this route will know that it’s pretty much a straight line anyway. Minsk controller was not in the slightest bit bothered and said not to worry. FO’s and the other Capt had other ideas though. They decided that they would ‘report themselves’ when they landed DESPITE the controller saying that for him was no problem at all.
The last I heard they were just 3nm off route so no big deal.
Crew were immediately grounded ‘pending investigation.’
Decision now is 6 months grounding for the crew in the office with NO PAY!!!! Just to rub salt in the wounds, the foreign pilot involved is EU based and is supposed to serve this punishment in Guangzhou despite having a young family in Europe. Yeah right........
Anyway just wanted to keep the facts coming for all the onlookers here. These kind of things are good to know before making any career decisions. Boy I wish I had known all this beforehand......
These kind of ‘non events’ are so easy on a red eye flight full of fatigue that they could happen to absolutely anybody.
Cheers,
The Captain taught that it was the end of the matter and did nothing. The F/O decided to be super honest and went to verbally report to the chief pilot as some kind of precaution to other pilots of Chinese ATC not hearing or monitoring readbacks. Some kind of sharing unfortunate incident with lessons to be learnt.
The ambitious chief pilot took it upon himself to investigate, even communicating with the Chinese ATC to verify that the incident took place. The Chinese ATC confirm the incident but as no conflict with any other traffic took place they would not take it any further. However the chief pilot blew it up, initiated a safety violation enquiry insisting the Safety Department take punitive measures. End result, both pilots were grounded for 2 months with requirement to attend numerous technical and disciplinary inquiries, with the punitive measures of having to undergo several long winded safety classes.
So such sh
it happens in Korea, China and I believe in Jan and Taiwan too!
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Yes, the "No blame, no jeopardy" safety culture alot of airlines utilise globally, is definately NOT well established in these regions, as it's all about the bling... all about the gold braids and scrambled eggs and who's got the most 
...putting others down so they can look good & feel better about themselves (in their own lunchbox!)
How very sad...
...putting others down so they can look good & feel better about themselves (in their own lunchbox!)How very sad...
Join Date: Apr 2017
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Level bust one thing. Being 3nm left of track isn’t even off the airway in Minsk, ie no rule was broken, no conflict even possible. 6 months no pay in the office is like execution for littering. It’s becoming unworkable right now, long sleeved shirts required when the FCTM says no long sleeves, and hard landings recorded and punished even though the aircraft manufacturer has clearly told them that the figures aren’t reliable or accurate. Next walkaround bring a diesel powered searchlight as you’ll need it in case you miss a 12 year old lightning strike. It’s a shame it was a great job..
Join Date: Mar 2015
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Agree on the above.
China southern are now plumbing new depths of how to make a job as unpleasant as possible.
With new pilot hating senior management, total lack of middle management who actually do the work - everyone has stopped even pretending to care.
The risks inherent in this job are becoming intolerable. You are literally taking your career in your hands every time you step inside the cockpit.
China southern are now plumbing new depths of how to make a job as unpleasant as possible.
With new pilot hating senior management, total lack of middle management who actually do the work - everyone has stopped even pretending to care.
The risks inherent in this job are becoming intolerable. You are literally taking your career in your hands every time you step inside the cockpit.
