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China Southern wannabes

Old 16th Oct 2016, 12:59
  #161 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Courchevel
Posts: 756
Did anybody spot that Parc have quoted 1,000 USD less per month for their upcoming Brazilian screening roadshow for both rated and non-rated? Details all on their website says 17k instead of 18k for non-rated. Looks like the money has gone down or is it Parc trying to get a bit more $$..? Hopefully it's a typo but I doubt it.
Count von Altibar is offline  
Old 16th Oct 2016, 21:10
  #162 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ...............
Posts: 110
Latest info is there are still places available in Frankfurt. Everywhere else is full regardless of what the agents tell you. FYI many nontype rated guys now on the 777 based in Europe now operate as PIC...with other Europeans in the crew. Those with patience seem to be rewarded ...
doniedarko is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2016, 07:03
  #163 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Not home
Posts: 9
CSA soon to commence A330 services to Adelaide, potential reverse roster port?
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Old 17th Oct 2016, 07:16
  #164 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by doniedarko View Post
Latest info is there are still places available in Frankfurt. Everywhere else is full regardless of what the agents tell you. FYI many nontype rated guys now on the 777 based in Europe now operate as PIC...with other Europeans in the crew. Those with patience seem to be rewarded ...
That's interesting bearing in mind 2 weeks ago there were no spaces at all 😩
Still guess it gives everyone an idea of just how well organised things are here......

Indeed PIC is happening on 777 EU RSP 👍...........
.......2 absolutely horrific cases of Shigella in the space of 2 weeks is also happening due to the sub standard dirty accommodation that CSA provide to its foreign pilots......

Its not all rewarding.
Cheers all,
mach85 is offline  
Old 18th Oct 2016, 11:11
  #165 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Around the block
Posts: 347
Would not think so...

But who knows?
Viking101 is offline  
Old 15th Nov 2016, 13:13
  #166 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Spain
Posts: 95
Is it possible/practicle to commute from Europe with CSA? Do you get staff travel benefits on other airlines?

Cheers
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Old 15th Nov 2016, 22:23
  #167 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne
Age: 57
Posts: 29
Not sure exactly what you are asking, but if you are CAN Based, you are entitled to free duty travel too and from your nominated home region (if CSA goes there). Paris, Frankfurt, London and Rome at the moment, for your contract days off. No interline travel benefits though.
Savage175 is offline  
Old 28th Nov 2016, 04:26
  #168 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Canada
Posts: 3
Question for current CSA Pilot/s:

Is CSA still accepting applicants with appropriate B737 Command time for the B787 DEC?
Whiskey Sierra is offline  
Old 8th Dec 2016, 15:56
  #169 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Scotland
Age: 48
Posts: 96
Question for current CSA Pilot/s:

Is CSA still accepting applicants with appropriate B737 Command time for the B787 DEC?
Apparently yes, I have a screening early next year and I have 737 Command time. DEC for the 777 or 787 so they say. Not looking forward to the screening process though.
v1rotate is offline  
Old 10th Dec 2016, 13:37
  #170 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: europe
Posts: 5
What is the latest info coming from? and is it only about 777 or 330 as well?
sumkin is offline  
Old 13th Dec 2016, 06:16
  #171 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 2
Hi everybody,

Here is some info for those of us even considering China Southern (CSA). Have recently heard of the following instances. Think I will be staying put. What a joke

Instance 1:
787 - Foreign captain doing his check, chinese (CAAC/CSA) Senior Check Captain continually screaming at him in the flight deck during pre-flight setup. This continues, Chief Purser has to inform the flight deck the business class passengers are concerned about the ranting they can hear ! Foreign captain repeatedly asks the Check Captain to stop screaming as it was severely compromising the safety to continue the flight. Checkie had some issue regarding SOP’s, apparently unfounded too

Screaming continues to the point the foreign captain is left with no option but to remove himself from the flight. Foreign captain terminated ! Check Captain keeps face, no criticism whatsoever, WTF ?

Instance 2:
777 - Foreign captain has personal issue that unfortunately left no option but to resign. Gives required contractual notice and CSA accept his resignation. Issue arises whereby CSA inform his broker (sounds like ‘park’) there is US$7,500 bond owing under the master contract between CSA and broker. Broker realizes they themselves were legally obligated to pay the bond as the contract they had with the foreign captain was not in accordance with the master contract. Something to do with bond period commencing at a different date to the master contract. Apparently some brokers tweek their contracts to make it look more attractive than their competition, until they get caught out like this

The broker with cooperation of CSA 'alledgedly' conspired together and then decided to terminate the foreign pilot to bring forward his finish date by around 10 days and therefore have him pay the bond, even though they previously accepted his resignation. Disgusting !


Instance 3:
330 - Foreign captain gets seriously ill for a few weeks, hospitalized. Leave is apparently minimal in CSA, and unable to be carried forward. Foreign pilot has used up all of his leave as the calendar year is almost over. CSA stop paying salary, and because he has no leave left, is then fined / penalized US$600 a day. Yes, that’s right, no pay and on top of that, he has to pay his employer US$600 a day because he is seriously ill.

Apparently the contract provides for CSA to reduce pay to US$100 a day if your medical is disqualified, but seems CSA decided not to cancel his medical as the contract provides for them to charge the pilot US$600 a day if he hold his medical, has no leave and is not at work. Can you believe this ?

The foreign captain had paid for extensive income protection insurance with a ‘no waiting period’ but he was prevented from being able to claim it as it is dependent upon losing your medical certificate.

Please, if anyone who is actually in CSA wish to correct the above, by all means do so.

It is only fair that EVERYONE should be very aware of this broker’s immoral and deceitful behavior (sounds like ‘park’) along with the way China Southern treat some of their foreign pilots across all fleets. It seems like a massive step to give up a known and trusted employer to go to China, only to be treated like that.

No thanks
hubcaps is offline  
Old 14th Dec 2016, 01:02
  #172 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 45
Posts: 93
I haven't heard anything like that. I need to choose between this job and an Airbus 320 job now as I've been hired by both.

Having spent 7 years flying in china I know personally the bs you have to go through but when some instructor wouldn't stop yelling at us in the sim i walked out and the manager had a talk with him. Next day he was beyond quiet!

I've just head CSA is extremely disorganized and if you get the B777 it sucks cause most trips start and finish out of PVG which means join crew to there from GZ and that will be miserable. Plus 777 is mostly cargo.
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Old 14th Dec 2016, 14:14
  #173 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by Turkpilot View Post

I've just head CSA is extremely disorganized and if you get the B777 it sucks cause most trips start and finish out of PVG which means join crew to there from GZ and that will be miserable. Plus 777 is mostly cargo.

This thread is great for potential joiners but lets at least keep to the facts.
CSA have 12 77F's and 10 77W's. 7 77F's fly from PVG and the rest out of CAN so 10 77W's and 5 77F's. So to say most trips start and finish out of PVG is clearly incorrect as you can see. Actually MOST 777 flying is out of CAN and not PVG. Sometimes yes you will have to DH with the crew to PVG but definitely not 'most trips'.

Also as you can see the split of cargo/pax aircraft is almost 50/50 so again saying '777 is mostly cargo' is also drivel.

777 EU RSP guys do mainly cargo as the only flights on 777 to EU are cargo. However those based in CAN on 20/10 do mainly pax flying.

There is a lot of truth on this thread so lets try and keep it that way for potential joiners.
mach85 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 04:01
  #174 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 45
Posts: 93
There are 5 guys from my old airline in china that currently work there. They are not just doing 2 or 3 long haul a month but domestic sometimes as well. The 777 cargo does suck and you can get it more often then not with lovely pvg included.

Schedule changes constantly. And as they have shown in the past they will open RSP base just to close it down a few months later.
Turkpilot is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 08:03
  #175 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Over the Pacific mostly
Posts: 991
Are they looking for other jobs? There are horror stories at every gig.....!
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Old 15th Dec 2016, 09:59
  #176 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by Turkpilot View Post
There are 5 guys from my old airline in china that currently work there. They are not just doing 2 or 3 long haul a month but domestic sometimes as well. The 777 cargo does suck and you can get it more often then not with lovely pvg included.

Schedule changes constantly. And as they have shown in the past they will open RSP base just to close it down a few months later.
I don't remember ever saying that you only do 2-3 long haul flights per month. All the fleets in CSA do domestic flights as do most Chinese carriers you will find.

777 cargo actually doesn't suck for everyone as you say. Some like it. Its horses for courses. If you are the kind of guy who needs to stand in the galley after landing to meet the passengers and feel important then probably it isnt for you. If you dont 'need' that ego massage then actually it is quite nice and laid back flying.

Anyway you make it sound so awful here that there isn't much point to come for you i guess. Weren't you deciding between 2 jobs. Sounds like you made your own mind up.......

Good luck. All the best,
mach85 is offline  
Old 15th Dec 2016, 20:42
  #177 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: turkey
Age: 45
Posts: 93
I never said that you said this. I'm telling you what I know from the guys working there. If your in love with CSA that's good for you.

Yes, cargo does suck. Frequent delays, backside of the clock, boring crews. As your well aware also that the hotels suck. They put you in one of the worst places in JFK, Flushing area of Queens. And normally it's a hotel that's connected with some Chinese restaurant.

The foreigners (laowai) get all the trips the Chinese don't want. And the company is VERY inflexible.

Your required to have 48 hours no duty after coming back to china from a USA trip. So if your 10 days off begins after the 48 hours, which would give you 12 days right? Well the company won't let you go until your 48 hours is up. Wanna fly CSA home while your on those 48 hours rest? Forget it.

That guy that got screamed at by the instructor on 787, they offered him the 777 then when the checker complained they terminated him.

Lax base not gonna happen anytime soon and forget Vancouver or JFK

The only thing stopping me is if I goto HK for this job I won't get home much.
Turkpilot is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 06:02
  #178 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne
Age: 57
Posts: 29
Hi Turkpilot

As you say you are not at CSA, and presumably not interested in joining after reading this forum. So I don't really understand your need to pass on information that you have simply heard on the rumour mill. Yep, there is truth in what you say, but this thread is for guys who are interested in joining and want to get the whole picture.

If you read through, it is easy enough to pick the guys who are actually here, and most of us are quite happy to answer PMs and give first hand answers about the good and bad aspects of CSA.

I don't know of any perfect airline jobs, but if you do then I am sure everyone would love to hear about them.

In the meantime, may I suggest that you refrain from posting your version of second hand rumours. Without context they are not of much help to those after first hand information
Savage175 is offline  
Old 16th Dec 2016, 07:44
  #179 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 96
If you dont mean to comment on someone's particular post but just the thread in general then maybe it would make more sense just to click general reply rather than reply to post. This way the person(I in this instance) wouldn't think you were commenting on my particular post and instead just giving info in general.

Anyway i dont want to have a disagreement, that's not the aim here. The aim as Savage said is for accurate reliable info for potential joiners. Your initial post wasn't accurate hence why I commented thats all.

If you think im 'in love with' CSA then perhaps you should look back at my previous posts. You will see me regularly giving my opinion on the less 'enjoyable' parts of this job....and there are many but always fact!! I guess i am just more of a realist and like Savage said understand that the perfect job doesn't exist so what works for 1 wont work for another.....

By the way you are correct about the hotel standard. In general it is really dreadful. There are some 'ok' hotels but in general you wouldn't let your wife even put one foot into the reception of most places. From what I understand though i think that is very common in Chinese airlines.

The 48 hour required rest at base is if you fly through more than 6 time zones so not only US. Plenty of people do actually go home during this period but you will have to buy yourself a staff ticket in order to do so as the company(in general) wont let you travel as crew(so for free) until your 10 days off start. It has been managed by some guys in the past so like everything in China it all depends on the day and who you talk to

Anyway all the best with whatever you choose. Doesn't sound like we'll see you at CSA as it's so 'bad' so i hope your other option gives you what you are looking for.

Cheers,
mach85 is offline  
Old 18th Dec 2016, 01:51
  #180 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Ireland
Posts: 2
thanks cedrus

So I am still trying to get my head around this. I understand that if you get sick with no leave you do not get paid salary, no work - no pay right, ok

But then if u r sick and even in hospital, China Southern will demand YOU to pay THEM us$600 a day, on top of no salary as well ? Are you serious ?? It can’t be so can it ??? unbelievable. I have never heard of this before from any airline in the world and understand not even the other big 3 chinese airlines do this. Not a good look for China Southern !

As for the broker (sounds like bark) how despicable. How could anyone choose them as a broker after what they are said to have done to that poor fellow. shame on them


Was hoping someone could tell me these occurrences weren’t so, but sadly it appears they are.
hubcaps is offline  

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